Consequence of a Bad Evaluation on a Summer Associate? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I recently submitted a memorandum on a complicated set of issues to a partner at my firm. I had some trouble with it, and he spent a lot of time giving me guidance. Ultimately, I submitted an eight-page memo that addressed a lot of the issues. Admittedly, it was organized in an unorthodox fashion because I thought that's what he had been seeking.

Over the next couple of days, he reached out to me for some supplemental research. I prepared short email memos and delivered them to him. Yesterday, he sent me a memo (which will ultimately go out to a client) that was mostly comprised of the substance of my original memo and had the same conclusions of law, but it was totally overhauled in terms of the organization, writing, etc. He did copy and paste some of the work from my supplemental emails in as well...

He came to my office to go over the draft that I delivered to him. He described it as "unfocused" and said that the answer felt a bit buried. He told me that he likes to give oral feedback before placing it in the system, so I wouldn't be confused when I see it later in the summer. He did say he wasn't upset because I worked hard and clearly didn't half ass it, but it's also clear that he thought that the quality was less than stellar.

What is the consequence of bad feedback when evaluating a summer for a return offer?

(V100, major market)

[Anonymous User]

You’ll be fine, no one expects perfect work from a summer, it seems like you did perfectly fine work.

[Anonymous User]

I recently submitted a memorandum on a complicated set of issues to a partner at my firm. I had some trouble with it, and he spent a lot of time giving me guidance. Ultimately, I submitted an eight-page memo that addressed a lot of the issues. Admittedly, it was organized in an unorthodox fashion because I thought that's what he had been seeking.

Over the next couple of days, he reached out to me for some supplemental research. I prepared short email memos and delivered them to him. Yesterday, he sent me a memo (which will ultimately go out to a client) that was mostly comprised of the substance of my original memo and had the same conclusions of law, but it was totally overhauled in terms of the organization, writing, etc. He did copy and paste some of the work from my supplemental emails in as well...

He came to my office to go over the draft that I delivered to him. He described it as "unfocused" and said that the answer felt a bit buried. He told me that he likes to give oral feedback before placing it in the system, so I wouldn't be confused when I see it later in the summer. He did say he wasn't upset because I worked hard and clearly didn't half ass it, but it's also clear that he thought that the quality was less than stellar.

What is the consequence of bad feedback when evaluating a summer for a return offer?

(V100, major market)

0. Also, you're getting real feedback out of a partner. Better than a useless assignment that you get little to nothing out of.

[Wild Card]

you won't be cold offered, but you'll probably be assigned to corporate or finance or some specialized practice

[cornerstone]

you won't be cold offered, but you'll probably be assigned to corporate or finance or some specialized practice

Why? I mean I can see a world where a bad summer review (assuming it's bad, not just some constructive criticism) in a particular practice area could be considered the deciding factor between whether associate #1 or #2 gets their first pick of practice group where all else is held equal. But that assumes a lot of facts (e.g., the firm actually looks at summer reviews when offering practice groups, demand for the practice group outpaces supply, OP doesn't kill it at another assignment, all else is held equal, etc.). But to say that OP will "probably be assigned to corporate or finance or some specialized practice" without knowing anything about the firm, the group, etc. is a bridge too far for me.

[DougEvans789]

Lots of partners rewrite basically everything they get. The fact that he drew on it is probably a good sign. One thing I’ve come to appreciate as I’ve gotten more senior is that giving non-positive feedback is profoundly awkward, and it’s really easy to just not say anything. The fact that he came and talked to you and gave a little speech about his feedback philosophy (i.e., not just putting it in the system) and said he wasn’t mad suggests to me that there’s a reasonably good chance that most of what you’re seeing here is a heavy-handed editor who thinks of himself as a good mentor willing to have the awkward convos that others won’t. That’s not to say that he necessarily liked your memo—I think partners often find summers’ work product to be of limited utility—but I think you’re probably taking it harder than necessary, and I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

[Anonymous User]

I recently submitted a memorandum on a complicated set of issues to a partner at my firm. I had some trouble with it, and he spent a lot of time giving me guidance. Ultimately, I submitted an eight-page memo that addressed a lot of the issues. Admittedly, it was organized in an unorthodox fashion because I thought that's what he had been seeking.

Over the next couple of days, he reached out to me for some supplemental research. I prepared short email memos and delivered them to him. Yesterday, he sent me a memo (which will ultimately go out to a client) that was mostly comprised of the substance of my original memo and had the same conclusions of law, but it was totally overhauled in terms of the organization, writing, etc. He did copy and paste some of the work from my supplemental emails in as well...

He came to my office to go over the draft that I delivered to him. He described it as "unfocused" and said that the answer felt a bit buried. He told me that he likes to give oral feedback before placing it in the system, so I wouldn't be confused when I see it later in the summer. He did say he wasn't upset because I worked hard and clearly didn't half ass it, but it's also clear that he thought that the quality was less than stellar.

What is the consequence of bad feedback when evaluating a summer for a return offer?

(V100, major market)

Meh, seems fine to me. Partners understand it takes a long time to develop skills, so shouldn't sweat it. Associate feedback can actually be more of an issue, for example if some bitter 3rd year associate feels that you failed in an assignment and writes a scathing review suggesting that you are incompetent. Partners are on best behavior around summers, but many associates are already planning to bail and aren't as gentle.

[Dcc617]

For what it’s worth, that seems like pretty good feedback for a summer associate research project. I think bad feedback would be he just totally disregarded your memo and asked if you did any research at all.

[Anonymous User]

For what it’s worth, that seems like pretty good feedback for a summer associate research project. I think bad feedback would be he just totally disregarded your memo and asked if you did any research at all.

I had this. Partner asked if I even understood the assignment/law. Grilled me for a half an hour asking questions like "why do you think this case answers the question I asked you?" Dude was a prick, and there weren't any cases on point (senior associate later confirmed it). FWIW I still got an offer, but didn't end up there.

The thing that helped me most as a junior was to remember that lawyering requires a skill/knowledge set that law school doesn't give you (especially in litigation). There's a reason why the firm charges 2-3x/hour for a partner vs. a junior. And as a first year (or summer), you're probably not even worth what they bill you out at. Point is, you won't get everything on your first try, and that's normal. And there are nuances that take years to pick up on. Partners see junior cycle through year after year, so they know that there's a learning curve and wide distribution from that. That's why many review templates rank performance as below, at, or above your class year. Just try to improve every day and learn from the advice you're given and you'll be fine.

You listed some really common constructive criticism that I give to juniors: don't bury the lead. In a memo, state your conclusions up front, and then try to show your work in the most intuitive/easy to follow way possible. I almost always include an executive summary/recommendation as the first section, followed by an explanation of the memo's organizational structure (e.g., general legal framework, followed by analogous cases, followed by potential counter-authority/common exceptions with arguments as to why those are not on point). And think long and hard about your topic sentences for every section/paragraph - that's what keeps your reader engaged and following along. You might not need this, but a partner who has 20 bazillion things going on at the same time certainly will. Getting this format right takes practice, though, so don't be surprised if you continue to get feedback.

[Anonymous User]

Sweat this 0%. The fact that your work product was incorporated to any degree into a memo that went to a client puts you in the 90th percentile of summer associates out the gate. And the fact that you're being anal retentive about it tells me you're going to do great once you start work lol.

[Anonymous User]

Sweat this 0%. The fact that your work product was incorporated to any degree into a memo that went to a client puts you in the 90th percentile of summer associates out the gate. And the fact that you're being anal retentive about it tells me you're going to do great once you start work lol.

Seconding this response.