Med Mal Defense vs Plaintiff? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Current HYS 1L whose always wanted to open their own med malpractice firm. Plan on targeting prestigious PI firms in places like Philly and South FL in the summer. I know it’s not the most prestigious but it’s something that seems lucrative and more of a personal connection with clients than biglaw or lit boutiques could offer. I would be fine doing either defense or plaintiff work but I know med mal is typically hard on the plaintiff side being that the level of evidence necessary can be hard to come by. Would it be better to do defense or plaintiff from a purely money perspective? I know this a mostly biglaw forum but hopefully some solo practicioners can give me advice.

[Anonymous User]

Like most areas of law, defense-side pays more. But if your whole reason for going into med mal is ideological, then being on the defense side might make less sense.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Morally I’ve always wanted to do birth injury with a specialization in maternal death cases on the plaintiff side but the defense side I’d still be happy on the defense side.

[Anonymous User]

Like most areas of law, defense-side pays more. But if your whole reason for going into med mal is ideological, then being on the defense side might make less sense.

Is this true? I thought defense-side in personal injury cases is usually an insurer

For OP, you’ll likely be able to go to any PI firm you want to, including the elite plaintiffs’ firms

[Lacepiece23]

Like most areas of law, defense-side pays more. But if your whole reason for going into med mal is ideological, then being on the defense side might make less sense.

This is false. Plaintiff side can pay millions in a good jurisdiction like Philly or Florida. I'm a plaintiffs' employment lawyer in Philly. The PI folks make a killing.

The trick, however, is to bring your own cases in the door. You can still make great money at a place like Ross Feller Casey (specializes in med mal) or Kline & Specter in Philly as an associate/partner in name only. But if you're able to branch off and do your own thing, the ceiling is much better than biglaw, especially if you're good.

The problem with being a plaintiffs lawyer is that you either have to be a great lawyer or a great businessman. Most lawyers are neither, which makes biglaw much safer.

[Anonymous User]

Like most areas of law, defense-side pays more. But if your whole reason for going into med mal is ideological, then being on the defense side might make less sense.

This is false. Plaintiff side can pay millions in a good jurisdiction like Philly or Florida. I'm a plaintiffs' employment lawyer in Philly. The PI folks make a killing.

The trick, however, is to bring your own cases in the door. You can still make great money at a place like Ross Feller Casey (specializes in med mal) or Kline & Specter in Philly as an associate/partner in name only. But if you're able to branch off and do your own thing, the ceiling is much better than biglaw, especially if you're good.

The problem with being a plaintiffs lawyer is that you either have to be a great lawyer or a great businessman. Most lawyers are neither, which makes biglaw much safer.

Not to derail, but what makes a jurisdiction "good" on the plaintiff side? I assume large population?
Also, what kind of salary are associates at K&S type plaintiff shops earning?

Mods: I'm posting anonymous b/c people at my firm know my handle and we are supposed to be prepping for a major trial this week.

[lavarman84]

Like most areas of law, defense-side pays more. But if your whole reason for going into med mal is ideological, then being on the defense side might make less sense.

Is this true? I thought defense-side in personal injury cases is usually an insurer

For OP, you’ll likely be able to go to any PI firm you want to, including the elite plaintiffs’ firms

Not exactly. Defense will likely offer better salaries early in a person's career and more guaranteed money, but a good plaintiff's med mal attorney can make a lot of money. I am close to quite a few plaintiff's med mal attorneys who have made tens of millions of dollars. Of course, they're elite lawyers, so that's not the outcome any person should expect as normal. It's simply hard to generalize which side makes more in this particular context.

I'd say defense side is going to be safer and offer more consistent money, but plaintiff's side offers more upside. And if OP wants to open his own firm and do well, I think that's more likely to happen on the plaintiff's side. I will also say that med mal work is a grind, especially if you want to make the big bucks. Don't think you're getting into a 9-5.

[Lacepiece23]

Like most areas of law, defense-side pays more. But if your whole reason for going into med mal is ideological, then being on the defense side might make less sense.

This is false. Plaintiff side can pay millions in a good jurisdiction like Philly or Florida. I'm a plaintiffs' employment lawyer in Philly. The PI folks make a killing.

The trick, however, is to bring your own cases in the door. You can still make great money at a place like Ross Feller Casey (specializes in med mal) or Kline & Specter in Philly as an associate/partner in name only. But if you're able to branch off and do your own thing, the ceiling is much better than biglaw, especially if you're good.

The problem with being a plaintiffs lawyer is that you either have to be a great lawyer or a great businessman. Most lawyers are neither, which makes biglaw much safer.

Not to derail, but what makes a jurisdiction "good" on the plaintiff side? I assume large population?
Also, what kind of salary are associates at K&S type plaintiff shops earning?

Mods: I'm posting anonymous b/c people at my firm know my handle and we are supposed to be prepping for a major trial this week.

Usually, a jurisdiction is good if large amounts of minorities make it into the jury pool in a particular state court. Minorities give more money than white people. Philly, Bronx, parts of FL, New Mexico, etc.

Federal court is always worse (more white people) but there are a few that tend to have more diverse jury pools.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. My only concern on the plaintiffs side is the specialty I want is pretty niche and their isn’t a lot of history of maternal death settlements and verdicts. Not trying to pursue a passion but live on the street only able to get 1-2 cases a year.

[crouton62]

OP here. My only concern on the plaintiffs side is the specialty I want is pretty niche and their isn’t a lot of history of maternal death settlements and verdicts. Not trying to pursue a passion but live on the street only able to get 1-2 cases a year.

Started my career doing med mal defense work. As someone noted, med mal defense work is primarily insurer-funded. Insurance defense firms will get you great training and experience. You'll do the whole gamut of med mal cases at most firms, but a good bit of what I saw and handled was birth trauma-related, particularly if you are working at a higher-end firm that is on the carriers' cat. panel. Sadly, I think way more women and babies have rough deliveries than you'd think.

I knew many fellow associates at my firm who wanted to do plaintiff's work long term but wanted to get the defense-side training first. They would do their 3-5 years, and then leave (usually to go work for another plaintiff's lawyer rather than opening their own firm). I think it is pretty valuable training for a would-be plaintiff's lawyer to learn how the insurance companies think and how the hospitals handle the medical records, etc. for a few years before switching to go against them. But to be sure, med mal defense work won't pay you NEAR what you'd make doing commercial disputes at a BigLaw firm (or as a top flight plaintiffs-side med mal lawyer ). The pay differences will be in the multiples. The tippy-top plaintiffs attorneys aren't the ones you see on billboards or on the side of a bus. They get referred cases from a billboard lawyer who has the client and has the self-awareness to know that this type of serious case isn't his bread and butter and that he can just chill in a "co-counsel" role and let the big dog do the work and still get a nice payout at the end of the day.

The top-flight plaintiff's med mal guys are solos or work with like 2-3 other lawyers. If you are committed to starting your career at a shop like that, you will have to hustle your ass off and network like crazy to land the opportunity because it's not like they are coming to your school's OCI. Getting a job at a firm like that will be because a guy you networked with ran into his fellow plaintiff's lawyer at an AAJ meeting or something and the other guy mentioned needing another set of hands and the first guy connects you two. You need to figure out your target market ASAP because, again, if you want to start out on the plaintiff's side, you'll likely have to spend the next 2 years of law school networking like hell with all the plaintiff's med mal lawyers in that market to secure something for post-grad. A scatter shot approach across multiple markets is not going to serve you as well.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. My only concern on the plaintiffs side is the specialty I want is pretty niche and their isn’t a lot of history of maternal death settlements and verdicts. Not trying to pursue a passion but live on the street only able to get 1-2 cases a year.

Started my career doing med mal defense work. As someone noted, med mal defense work is primarily insurer-funded. Insurance defense firms will get you great training and experience. You'll do the whole gamut of med mal cases at most firms, but a good bit of what I saw and handled was birth trauma-related, particularly if you are working at a higher-end firm that is on the carriers' cat. panel. Sadly, I think way more women and babies have rough deliveries than you'd think.

I knew many fellow associates at my firm who wanted to do plaintiff's work long term but wanted to get the defense-side training first. They would do their 3-5 years, and then leave (usually to go work for another plaintiff's lawyer rather than opening their own firm). I think it is pretty valuable training for a would-be plaintiff's lawyer to learn how the insurance companies think and how the hospitals handle the medical records, etc. for a few years before switching to go against them. But to be sure, med mal defense work won't pay you NEAR what you'd make doing commercial disputes at a BigLaw firm (or as a top flight plaintiffs-side med mal lawyer ). The pay differences will be in the multiples. The tippy-top plaintiffs attorneys aren't the ones you see on billboards or on the side of a bus. They get referred cases from a billboard lawyer who has the client and has the self-awareness to know that this type of serious case isn't his bread and butter and that he can just chill in a "co-counsel" role and let the big dog do the work and still get a nice payout at the end of the day.

The top-flight plaintiff's med mal guys are solos or work with like 2-3 other lawyers. If you are committed to starting your career at a shop like that, you will have to hustle your ass off and network like crazy to land the opportunity because it's not like they are coming to your school's OCI. Getting a job at a firm like that will be because a guy you networked with ran into his fellow plaintiff's lawyer at an AAJ meeting or something and the other guy mentioned needing another set of hands and the first guy connects you two. You need to figure out your target market ASAP because, again, if you want to start out on the plaintiff's side, you'll likely have to spend the next 2 years of law school networking like hell with all the plaintiff's med mal lawyers in that market to secure something for post-grad. A scatter shot approach across multiple markets is not going to serve you as well.

You repeatedly refer to all these attorneys as male. It’s… kind of depressing and alienating for a female attorney on this thread.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Would you happen to know the names of some of these shops you were talking about? Your post has been really insightful and I just like to study high performers to mimic in the future

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Would you happen to know the names of some of these shops you were talking about? Your post has been really insightful and I just like to study high performers to mimic in the future

Also, what kind of pay do non-parters make at these types of shops on the plaintiff side? I doubt they follow market pay like biglaw?

[Lacepiece23]

OP here. Would you happen to know the names of some of these shops you were talking about? Your post has been really insightful and I just like to study high performers to mimic in the future

Also, what kind of pay do non-parters make at these types of shops on the plaintiff side? I doubt they follow market pay like biglaw?

Depends on the firm and how good you are. Plaintiffs firms reward skill, unlike biglaw.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. My only concern on the plaintiffs side is the specialty I want is pretty niche and their isn’t a lot of history of maternal death settlements and verdicts. Not trying to pursue a passion but live on the street only able to get 1-2 cases a year.

Started my career doing med mal defense work. As someone noted, med mal defense work is primarily insurer-funded. Insurance defense firms will get you great training and experience. You'll do the whole gamut of med mal cases at most firms, but a good bit of what I saw and handled was birth trauma-related, particularly if you are working at a higher-end firm that is on the carriers' cat. panel. Sadly, I think way more women and babies have rough deliveries than you'd think.

I knew many fellow associates at my firm who wanted to do plaintiff's work long term but wanted to get the defense-side training first. They would do their 3-5 years, and then leave (usually to go work for another plaintiff's lawyer rather than opening their own firm). I think it is pretty valuable training for a would-be plaintiff's lawyer to learn how the insurance companies think and how the hospitals handle the medical records, etc. for a few years before switching to go against them. But to be sure, med mal defense work won't pay you NEAR what you'd make doing commercial disputes at a BigLaw firm (or as a top flight plaintiffs-side med mal lawyer ). The pay differences will be in the multiples. The tippy-top plaintiffs attorneys aren't the ones you see on billboards or on the side of a bus. They get referred cases from a billboard lawyer who has the client and has the self-awareness to know that this type of serious case isn't his bread and butter and that he can just chill in a "co-counsel" role and let the big dog do the work and still get a nice payout at the end of the day.

The top-flight plaintiff's med mal guys are solos or work with like 2-3 other lawyers. If you are committed to starting your career at a shop like that, you will have to hustle your ass off and network like crazy to land the opportunity because it's not like they are coming to your school's OCI. Getting a job at a firm like that will be because a guy you networked with ran into his fellow plaintiff's lawyer at an AAJ meeting or something and the other guy mentioned needing another set of hands and the first guy connects you two. You need to figure out your target market ASAP because, again, if you want to start out on the plaintiff's side, you'll likely have to spend the next 2 years of law school networking like hell with all the plaintiff's med mal lawyers in that market to secure something for post-grad. A scatter shot approach across multiple markets is not going to serve you as well.

You repeatedly refer to all these attorneys as male. It’s… kind of depressing and alienating for a female attorney on this thread.

Not the other guy who posted, but cringe.

MOD NOTE: User houstontx1000 outed for anon abuse. The Anon feature is intended for posts that may reveal personal information, not to shield your identity in a feud with another poster.

[nixy]

OP here. My only concern on the plaintiffs side is the specialty I want is pretty niche and their isn’t a lot of history of maternal death settlements and verdicts. Not trying to pursue a passion but live on the street only able to get 1-2 cases a year.

Started my career doing med mal defense work. As someone noted, med mal defense work is primarily insurer-funded. Insurance defense firms will get you great training and experience. You'll do the whole gamut of med mal cases at most firms, but a good bit of what I saw and handled was birth trauma-related, particularly if you are working at a higher-end firm that is on the carriers' cat. panel. Sadly, I think way more women and babies have rough deliveries than you'd think.

I knew many fellow associates at my firm who wanted to do plaintiff's work long term but wanted to get the defense-side training first. They would do their 3-5 years, and then leave (usually to go work for another plaintiff's lawyer rather than opening their own firm). I think it is pretty valuable training for a would-be plaintiff's lawyer to learn how the insurance companies think and how the hospitals handle the medical records, etc. for a few years before switching to go against them. But to be sure, med mal defense work won't pay you NEAR what you'd make doing commercial disputes at a BigLaw firm (or as a top flight plaintiffs-side med mal lawyer ). The pay differences will be in the multiples. The tippy-top plaintiffs attorneys aren't the ones you see on billboards or on the side of a bus. They get referred cases from a billboard lawyer who has the client and has the self-awareness to know that this type of serious case isn't his bread and butter and that he can just chill in a "co-counsel" role and let the big dog do the work and still get a nice payout at the end of the day.

The top-flight plaintiff's med mal guys are solos or work with like 2-3 other lawyers. If you are committed to starting your career at a shop like that, you will have to hustle your ass off and network like crazy to land the opportunity because it's not like they are coming to your school's OCI. Getting a job at a firm like that will be because a guy you networked with ran into his fellow plaintiff's lawyer at an AAJ meeting or something and the other guy mentioned needing another set of hands and the first guy connects you two. You need to figure out your target market ASAP because, again, if you want to start out on the plaintiff's side, you'll likely have to spend the next 2 years of law school networking like hell with all the plaintiff's med mal lawyers in that market to secure something for post-grad. A scatter shot approach across multiple markets is not going to serve you as well.

You repeatedly refer to all these attorneys as male. It’s… kind of depressing and alienating for a female attorney on this thread.

Not the other guy who posted, but cringe.

Cringe that the default is male, or cringe that someone pointed out that the default is male?

[Anonymous User]

OP here. My only concern on the plaintiffs side is the specialty I want is pretty niche and their isn’t a lot of history of maternal death settlements and verdicts. Not trying to pursue a passion but live on the street only able to get 1-2 cases a year.

Started my career doing med mal defense work. As someone noted, med mal defense work is primarily insurer-funded. Insurance defense firms will get you great training and experience. You'll do the whole gamut of med mal cases at most firms, but a good bit of what I saw and handled was birth trauma-related, particularly if you are working at a higher-end firm that is on the carriers' cat. panel. Sadly, I think way more women and babies have rough deliveries than you'd think.

I knew many fellow associates at my firm who wanted to do plaintiff's work long term but wanted to get the defense-side training first. They would do their 3-5 years, and then leave (usually to go work for another plaintiff's lawyer rather than opening their own firm). I think it is pretty valuable training for a would-be plaintiff's lawyer to learn how the insurance companies think and how the hospitals handle the medical records, etc. for a few years before switching to go against them. But to be sure, med mal defense work won't pay you NEAR what you'd make doing commercial disputes at a BigLaw firm (or as a top flight plaintiffs-side med mal lawyer ). The pay differences will be in the multiples. The tippy-top plaintiffs attorneys aren't the ones you see on billboards or on the side of a bus. They get referred cases from a billboard lawyer who has the client and has the self-awareness to know that this type of serious case isn't his bread and butter and that he can just chill in a "co-counsel" role and let the big dog do the work and still get a nice payout at the end of the day.

The top-flight plaintiff's med mal guys are solos or work with like 2-3 other lawyers. If you are committed to starting your career at a shop like that, you will have to hustle your ass off and network like crazy to land the opportunity because it's not like they are coming to your school's OCI. Getting a job at a firm like that will be because a guy you networked with ran into his fellow plaintiff's lawyer at an AAJ meeting or something and the other guy mentioned needing another set of hands and the first guy connects you two. You need to figure out your target market ASAP because, again, if you want to start out on the plaintiff's side, you'll likely have to spend the next 2 years of law school networking like hell with all the plaintiff's med mal lawyers in that market to secure something for post-grad. A scatter shot approach across multiple markets is not going to serve you as well.

You repeatedly refer to all these attorneys as male. It’s… kind of depressing and alienating for a female attorney on this thread.

Not the other guy who posted, but cringe.

Cringe that the default is male, or cringe that someone pointed out that the default is male?

Cringe

[nixy]

You repeatedly refer to all these attorneys as male. It’s… kind of depressing and alienating for a female attorney on this thread.

Not the other guy who posted, but cringe.

Cringe that the default is male, or cringe that someone pointed out that the default is male?

Cringe

Thanks for your extremely helpful insight, anon!