3L OCI Advice Forum

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L at T-14 (not T6), URM. My GPA during OCI was 3.1x, so it didn't go well. I've raised my GPA to 3.2 and hoping to get close to or at 3.3 when Spring grades are released. My school doesn't rank, no idea where am I besides below median. Ended up at a mid-sized firm in a secondary market, but I want to be in a firm that pays market or close-ish after graduation.

Any advice on how should I proceed for 3L OCI? I'll be working hard to secure a return offer from my current firm. However, I'd like to know if there's any advice from someone who has gone through this or just in general. I already planned for mock interviews to improve my interviewing skills. My SO and I would prefer to be in a city, but we're flexible geographically.

My law school provides GPA cutoffs. Do these matter for 3L OCI? I'm targeting V100/AmLaw 100 firms, but I'm not sure if I should only contact those where my GPA is above the cutoff/where there's none.

How would you tailor emails/cover letters? Did you mention you wanted to do transactional?

I'm planning to start reaching out in July. My SA ends in early August. Should I be concerned that word could get back to my firm that I'm applying?

Thanks for your help

[mwells_56]

I was in a similar situation 3L. I had a 3.1 after my first semester and struck out at OCI with about a 3.2-3.3. I entered 3L with around a 3.3-3.4 and left with a job at a V30 in NY.

Basically, apply to everything. I got several screeners by filling out applications in Junior Associate roles for areas that I either had interest in or could reasonably feign interest. I'd then email the recruiter "Hi my name is X I see you are hiring junior associates in X area, are you looking to take on any incoming first years as well?" I think I had about 5-6 screeners overall between normal 3L postings and the cold apps, came away with the one offer.

[Anonymous User]

OP here, thank you for the advice. Glad to hear that it worked for you. Hoping to get that one offer, too

[Anonymous User]

I was in a similar boat, too - T14, struck out at OCI and am now going to a V10 with a 3.3. My biggest advice is to cold email recruiters stating you're a 3L at x school looking for a fall associate position. Ignore GPA cutoffs and just apply everywhere. Don't wait for job postings. I had the same exact email template with all my application info (cover letter, resume, and transcript) but tailored the cover letter (basically just one sentence in the first paragraph) to the firm/location/practice area. I'd say to email late July (at the end of the summer, when firms are giving out offers to summers) and follow up again in October (when summers generally have to sign offers by). Also, don't underestimate the importance of networking - reach out to alumni at firms/locations you're interested in, they may be able to help. I would not be stressed about word getting back to your firm - it's more important you get the job you want. Good luck!!!!

[Anonymous User]

I was in a similar boat, too - T14, struck out at OCI and am now going to a V10 with a 3.3. My biggest advice is to cold email recruiters stating you're a 3L at x school looking for a fall associate position. Ignore GPA cutoffs and just apply everywhere. Don't wait for job postings. I had the same exact email template with all my application info (cover letter, resume, and transcript) but tailored the cover letter (basically just one sentence in the first paragraph) to the firm/location/practice area. I'd say to email late July (at the end of the summer, when firms are giving out offers to summers) and follow up again in October (when summers generally have to sign offers by). Also, don't underestimate the importance of networking - reach out to alumni at firms/locations you're interested in, they may be able to help. I would not be stressed about word getting back to your firm - it's more important you get the job you want. Good luck!!!!

Do you mind sharing the firm, or give us like two-three options?

[Anonymous User]

I was in a similar boat, too - T14, struck out at OCI and am now going to a V10 with a 3.3. My biggest advice is to cold email recruiters stating you're a 3L at x school looking for a fall associate position. Ignore GPA cutoffs and just apply everywhere. Don't wait for job postings. I had the same exact email template with all my application info (cover letter, resume, and transcript) but tailored the cover letter (basically just one sentence in the first paragraph) to the firm/location/practice area. I'd say to email late July (at the end of the summer, when firms are giving out offers to summers) and follow up again in October (when summers generally have to sign offers by). Also, don't underestimate the importance of networking - reach out to alumni at firms/locations you're interested in, they may be able to help. I would not be stressed about word getting back to your firm - it's more important you get the job you want. Good luck!!!!

Do you mind sharing the firm, or give us like two-three options?

Not the quoted anon, but in order of probability: Latham, PW (corporate), K&E, STB, Skadden, DPW.

Definitely not Wachtell/CSM/S&C, very unlikely Gibson.

[Anonymous User]

I was in a similar boat, too - T14, struck out at OCI and am now going to a V10 with a 3.3. My biggest advice is to cold email recruiters stating you're a 3L at x school looking for a fall associate position. Ignore GPA cutoffs and just apply everywhere. Don't wait for job postings. I had the same exact email template with all my application info (cover letter, resume, and transcript) but tailored the cover letter (basically just one sentence in the first paragraph) to the firm/location/practice area. I'd say to email late July (at the end of the summer, when firms are giving out offers to summers) and follow up again in October (when summers generally have to sign offers by). Also, don't underestimate the importance of networking - reach out to alumni at firms/locations you're interested in, they may be able to help. I would not be stressed about word getting back to your firm - it's more important you get the job you want. Good luck!!!!

Do you mind sharing the firm, or give us like two-three options?

Not the quoted anon, but in order of probability: Latham, PW (corporate), K&E, STB, Skadden, DPW.

Definitely not Wachtell/CSM/S&C, very unlikely Gibson.

anon is right. I also wanted to do corporate, which was hot this year and I think made the GPA requirements more forgiving.

[Anonymous User]

I was in a similar boat, too - T14, struck out at OCI and am now going to a V10 with a 3.3. My biggest advice is to cold email recruiters stating you're a 3L at x school looking for a fall associate position. Ignore GPA cutoffs and just apply everywhere. Don't wait for job postings. I had the same exact email template with all my application info (cover letter, resume, and transcript) but tailored the cover letter (basically just one sentence in the first paragraph) to the firm/location/practice area. I'd say to email late July (at the end of the summer, when firms are giving out offers to summers) and follow up again in October (when summers generally have to sign offers by). Also, don't underestimate the importance of networking - reach out to alumni at firms/locations you're interested in, they may be able to help. I would not be stressed about word getting back to your firm - it's more important you get the job you want. Good luck!!!!

lol are you me? I also am at T14 with a ~3.3 and got a 3L offer for a V10

[Anonymous User]

I was in a similar boat, too - T14, struck out at OCI and am now going to a V10 with a 3.3. My biggest advice is to cold email recruiters stating you're a 3L at x school looking for a fall associate position. Ignore GPA cutoffs and just apply everywhere. Don't wait for job postings. I had the same exact email template with all my application info (cover letter, resume, and transcript) but tailored the cover letter (basically just one sentence in the first paragraph) to the firm/location/practice area. I'd say to email late July (at the end of the summer, when firms are giving out offers to summers) and follow up again in October (when summers generally have to sign offers by). Also, don't underestimate the importance of networking - reach out to alumni at firms/locations you're interested in, they may be able to help. I would not be stressed about word getting back to your firm - it's more important you get the job you want. Good luck!!!!

Do you mind sharing the firm, or give us like two-three options?

Not the quoted anon, but in order of probability: Latham, PW (corporate), K&E, STB, Skadden, DPW.

Definitely not Wachtell/CSM/S&C, very unlikely Gibson.

anon is right. I also wanted to do corporate, which was hot this year and I think made the GPA requirements more forgiving.

That tiering only would hold for NY

[The Lsat Airbender]

I was in a similar boat, too - T14, struck out at OCI and am now going to a V10 with a 3.3. My biggest advice is to cold email recruiters stating you're a 3L at x school looking for a fall associate position. Ignore GPA cutoffs and just apply everywhere. Don't wait for job postings. I had the same exact email template with all my application info (cover letter, resume, and transcript) but tailored the cover letter (basically just one sentence in the first paragraph) to the firm/location/practice area. I'd say to email late July (at the end of the summer, when firms are giving out offers to summers) and follow up again in October (when summers generally have to sign offers by). Also, don't underestimate the importance of networking - reach out to alumni at firms/locations you're interested in, they may be able to help. I would not be stressed about word getting back to your firm - it's more important you get the job you want. Good luck!!!!

Do you mind sharing the firm, or give us like two-three options?

Not the quoted anon, but in order of probability: Latham, PW (corporate), K&E, STB, Skadden, DPW.

Definitely not Wachtell/CSM/S&C, very unlikely Gibson.

anon is right. I also wanted to do corporate, which was hot this year and I think made the GPA requirements more forgiving.

That tiering only would hold for NY

Vault rankings in general are only informative for NY

[Anonymous User]

I was in a similar boat, too - T14, struck out at OCI and am now going to a V10 with a 3.3. My biggest advice is to cold email recruiters stating you're a 3L at x school looking for a fall associate position. Ignore GPA cutoffs and just apply everywhere. Don't wait for job postings. I had the same exact email template with all my application info (cover letter, resume, and transcript) but tailored the cover letter (basically just one sentence in the first paragraph) to the firm/location/practice area. I'd say to email late July (at the end of the summer, when firms are giving out offers to summers) and follow up again in October (when summers generally have to sign offers by). Also, don't underestimate the importance of networking - reach out to alumni at firms/locations you're interested in, they may be able to help. I would not be stressed about word getting back to your firm - it's more important you get the job you want. Good luck!!!!

Do you mind sharing the firm, or give us like two-three options?

Not the quoted anon, but in order of probability: Latham, PW (corporate), K&E, STB, Skadden, DPW.

Definitely not Wachtell/CSM/S&C, very unlikely Gibson.

anon is right. I also wanted to do corporate, which was hot this year and I think made the GPA requirements more forgiving.

That tiering only would hold for NY

Vault rankings in general are only informative for NY

This, plus breaking into any other market with a 3.3 GPA as a 3L just seemed so much less likely. Although I will admit, I did instinctively presume anon was in NY.

[Anonymous User]

Need advice: rising 3L with a 3.2 GPA, lower T14 too. Is it possible to still get into a big law firm? I want to do corporate, tax or estate planning. Should I focus on NY only? I have ties to CA but don't go to law school in that state. Do I even have a chance for clerkships, or shouldn't I bother with that?

[mwells_56]

Need advice: rising 3L with a 3.2 GPA, lower T14 too. Is it possible to still get into a big law firm? I want to do corporate, tax or estate planning. Should I focus on NY only? I have ties to CA but don't go to law school in that state. Do I even have a chance for clerkships, or shouldn't I bother with that?

Same advice to you as I gave OP: apply to everything. Get an externship or two if you can to boost your resume and build your network. Assuming that you have a 2L internship this summer, your main priority should be getting an offer from there if that's on the table. Job hunting is significantly less stressful if you already have a job. My journey to big law was fedgov 1L summer --> strike out at OCI --> different fedgov 2L fall externship --> F100 2L summer + full time offer --> NY office of a V30 (got offer in March or so).

NY is probably your best bet but I had some 3L interviews in Boston and Chicago as well as NY. 3L hiring is inherently a crapshoot so you need to play the numbers game. I wasn't trying for clerkships so can't give you any advice there. For tax, I had a buddy with similar grades that decided to go for his LLM and now works at the tax court. Not a bad play if you don't mind paying for an extra semester or two of school, I considered doing the same until I had a good job offer on hand.

[Anonymous User]

Same advice to you as I gave OP: apply to everything. Get an externship or two if you can to boost your resume and build your network. Assuming that you have a 2L internship this summer, your main priority should be getting an offer from there if that's on the table. Job hunting is significantly less stressful if you already have a job. My journey to big law was fedgov 1L summer --> strike out at OCI --> different fedgov 2L fall externship --> F100 2L summer + full time offer --> NY office of a V30 (got offer in March or so).

NY is probably your best bet but I had some 3L interviews in Boston and Chicago as well as NY. 3L hiring is inherently a crapshoot so you need to play the numbers game. I wasn't trying for clerkships so can't give you any advice there. For tax, I had a buddy with similar grades that decided to go for his LLM and now works at the tax court. Not a bad play if you don't mind paying for an extra semester or two of school, I considered doing the same until I had a good job offer on hand.

Anon you responded to. Thanks for the advice. I did get into a midsized firm like OP but in a place I don't have ties to. I've been told and seen in NALP that they do tend to offer everyone. I just can't see myself staying here long-term, it's a smaller city and I'd prefer to be closer to either coast, or Chicago since it's a larger city.

I did a lit externship my 2L. I'll try to get another internship my 3L, or try for a judicial externship. I asked about clerkships since I've heard it usually helps, but I'm not sure if that's even a possibility with my GPA, and career services just wants to get as many apps from my class into clerkships so they're not helping either.

I haven't thought about a tax LLM, but I'll look into it at my school. Thanks for the advice!

[Anonymous User]

I was in a similar boat, too - T14, struck out at OCI and am now going to a V10 with a 3.3. My biggest advice is to cold email recruiters stating you're a 3L at x school looking for a fall associate position. Ignore GPA cutoffs and just apply everywhere. Don't wait for job postings. I had the same exact email template with all my application info (cover letter, resume, and transcript) but tailored the cover letter (basically just one sentence in the first paragraph) to the firm/location/practice area. I'd say to email late July (at the end of the summer, when firms are giving out offers to summers) and follow up again in October (when summers generally have to sign offers by). Also, don't underestimate the importance of networking - reach out to alumni at firms/locations you're interested in, they may be able to help. I would not be stressed about word getting back to your firm - it's more important you get the job you want. Good luck!!!!

Do you mind sharing the firm, or give us like two-three options?

Not the quoted anon, but in order of probability: Latham, PW (corporate), K&E, STB, Skadden, DPW.

Definitely not Wachtell/CSM/S&C, very unlikely Gibson.

Does anyone know the different GPA cutoffs for the firms listed above (for 3L recruiting)? I'm a rising 3L at a T6. Underperformed with an above median GPA during OCI and am at a V75-100 right now. Have a 3.5 + LR now and was wondering if I can break into V20 or even V10. I know the market is cooling, but I'm solely interested in corporate so maybe that balances out a bit (??). Scratch Wachtell (and probably Cravath, since I heard they don't hire for general corporate for 3L), but are the others in play (S&C/STB/DPW/PW/Skadden)? Any anecdotal success stories would be appreciated. Thanks in advance y'all!

[Anonymous User]

How often should you follow up with a recruiter on an app for 3L recruiting? Is every 2 weeks too much?

[Anonymous User]

I was in a similar boat, too - T14, struck out at OCI and am now going to a V10 with a 3.3. My biggest advice is to cold email recruiters stating you're a 3L at x school looking for a fall associate position. Ignore GPA cutoffs and just apply everywhere. Don't wait for job postings. I had the same exact email template with all my application info (cover letter, resume, and transcript) but tailored the cover letter (basically just one sentence in the first paragraph) to the firm/location/practice area. I'd say to email late July (at the end of the summer, when firms are giving out offers to summers) and follow up again in October (when summers generally have to sign offers by). Also, don't underestimate the importance of networking - reach out to alumni at firms/locations you're interested in, they may be able to help. I would not be stressed about word getting back to your firm - it's more important you get the job you want. Good luck!!!!

Do you mind sharing the firm, or give us like two-three options?

Not the quoted anon, but in order of probability: Latham, PW (corporate), K&E, STB, Skadden, DPW.

Definitely not Wachtell/CSM/S&C, very unlikely Gibson.

Does anyone know the different GPA cutoffs for the firms listed above (for 3L recruiting)? I'm a rising 3L at a T6. Underperformed with an above median GPA during OCI and am at a V75-100 right now. Have a 3.5 + LR now and was wondering if I can break into V20 or even V10. I know the market is cooling, but I'm solely interested in corporate so maybe that balances out a bit (??). Scratch Wachtell (and probably Cravath, since I heard they don't hire for general corporate for 3L), but are the others in play (S&C/STB/DPW/PW/Skadden)? Any anecdotal success stories would be appreciated. Thanks in advance y'all!

Underperformed is an understatement given how hot the market was last year. Did you just mess up your bidding?

3L hiring is more of a crapshoot. No harm in shooting your shot (discretely) though. FWIW, I don't think S&C would have scooped you up even as a 2L with a 3.5.

[Anonymous User]

If you're clearly not getting your dream job out of law school (in terms of practice area or pay or etc.) is it more sensible to try to get on with a firm that does some work in the area you're interested in practicing in and then try to lateral to a good firm after you have 2-3 years of experience? Even if that means taking lower pay, working in a less desirable area, etc. to start out?

[Anonymous User]

I was in a similar boat, too - T14, struck out at OCI and am now going to a V10 with a 3.3. My biggest advice is to cold email recruiters stating you're a 3L at x school looking for a fall associate position. Ignore GPA cutoffs and just apply everywhere. Don't wait for job postings. I had the same exact email template with all my application info (cover letter, resume, and transcript) but tailored the cover letter (basically just one sentence in the first paragraph) to the firm/location/practice area. I'd say to email late July (at the end of the summer, when firms are giving out offers to summers) and follow up again in October (when summers generally have to sign offers by). Also, don't underestimate the importance of networking - reach out to alumni at firms/locations you're interested in, they may be able to help. I would not be stressed about word getting back to your firm - it's more important you get the job you want. Good luck!!!!

Do you mind sharing the firm, or give us like two-three options?

Not the quoted anon, but in order of probability: Latham, PW (corporate), K&E, STB, Skadden, DPW.

Definitely not Wachtell/CSM/S&C, very unlikely Gibson.

Does anyone know the different GPA cutoffs for the firms listed above (for 3L recruiting)? I'm a rising 3L at a T6. Underperformed with an above median GPA during OCI and am at a V75-100 right now. Have a 3.5 + LR now and was wondering if I can break into V20 or even V10. I know the market is cooling, but I'm solely interested in corporate so maybe that balances out a bit (??). Scratch Wachtell (and probably Cravath, since I heard they don't hire for general corporate for 3L), but are the others in play (S&C/STB/DPW/PW/Skadden)? Any anecdotal success stories would be appreciated. Thanks in advance y'all!

I landed at one of the listed V10 (in the order of probability list) for 3L hiring after doing a SA with a V50-70 firm and I had significantly worse stats than you (Lower T-14 with a ~3.3-3.4 and secondary journal).