Private Crim Defense Forum

[Anonymous User]

Any private criminal defense attorneys here? Would be interested in knowing case loads, salary (especially if you are in a smaller market like OKC, NOLA, STL, Omaha), and general pros and cons of your practice. Thanks!

[futurePD24]

I went into private practice a couple of months ago. I only do criminal defense. I'm in a market like the size you describe. Before going into private practice, I was a state-level and federal-level public defender in markets different from where I currently practice, but in the same region. I've been out of law school for around five years.

I'm currently on a state court-appointed list, and all of my cases come from that roster. The cases are high-level felony matters, and I have less than a dozen cases. I have applied for the federal court-appointed list (CJA panel) based on my federal experience. I anticipate that I'll get on that list by the end of the year.

I work from home. I have a business address that my mail is delivered to and scanned to me. I am a true solo and have no employees.

I've been in practice since around mid-March, and I've billed a little over $40,000.

I plan on doing state and federal court appointed work and seeing how far that takes me. I'm not very interested in a lot of the traditional business things that make one successful in private criminal defense practice (e.g., marketing, chasing down clients for money, handling a lot of speeding tickets/traffic matters, etc.).

Pros:
-I really enjoy being my own boss. I've had issues with every boss that I've ever had, where I thought that the office should be run differently. It's nice being able to call the shots, but also not have the responsibility of managing a large staff.
-Apart from appearing in court, I can make my own schedule. I've worked at offices in the past that had set hours (e.g., 8 a.m. - 5 p.m.) where I was expected to be in the office. I'm more of a night time person, so I often go to bed late, and get up around 9 a.m., so being able to work when I want is nice.
-I like being able to turn down cases if I don't want them. This wasn't possible when I was a public defender.
-I enjoy working from home. I work in t-shirts/sweat pants and then get dressed up when going to court or meeting clients.
-I believe that I'll make a lot more money in private practice, even though I had a six-figure salary as a federal public defender.

Cons:
-Now that I bill by the hour, I feel the need to constantly be working. When I worked for the public defender's office, I enjoyed talking to my colleagues throughout the day, or sometimes, I'd get distracted and surf the internet for 20 mins, but I was still getting paid because I was on salary. Now, if I get distracted and search the internet, I can't bill for that.
-Sometimes I miss having colleagues that I see in the office on a daily basis. But as I've been in practice now for a few months, this has gotten much easier. I've gotten involved with various groups in the community, and I've moved back to an area where I'm much closer to friends and family.
-I miss having benefits as part of my job (e.g., health insurance, paid vacation/sick leave etc.).
-I'm not a big fan of all the administrative things I need to do. Simple stuff, like setting up the client's file, sending out letters, scanning and organizing discovery materials, etc. Most of these things would have been done by support staff in the past.
-There are a lot of business things I will have to deal with soon (e.g., quarterly taxes, etc.) that I haven't dealt with yet. I'm just more interested in practicing law than being a business owner. I'm sure I'll outsource most of this at some point.
-One major con is that I'm no longer eligible for 10-year PSLF (public service loan forgiveness). I have a large amounts of student loans, and giving up PSLF was one of the hardest decisions I had to make. I ultimately decided that I'd be able to make more money in private practice to pay them off, and that I'd be happier overall, so I made the jump.

Overall, I've been very happy with my decision. I have much more control over my life and am making more money. I'm in my early thirties and I was in a good place to make this jump. If I were a little older and had a family and owned a home, I would have been too risk-averse to have left the federal public defender's office.

You'll always have insecurities and worries about going into private practice. It seems like there's never really a good time to do it. And you can always find good reasons not to do it. I would think about why you want to do it, and whether you're in a good place to make that move right now. I wanted greater freedom, and I felt that I had enough legal experience so that I could handle the kinds of cases that I'm interest in (more serious felony work). I also spent about 6 months planning for the move and I had around $50K saved (Fortunately, I haven't had to use anywhere close to that much to get things going). I guess I'll have a better idea in six months to a year about whether I made the right decision. But as for now, I'm satisfied with my choice.

Good Luck.

[CanadianWolf]

Probably the most candid post that I have ever read on this website. Thank you.

[Anonymous User]

I went into private practice a couple of months ago. I only do criminal defense. I'm in a market like the size you describe. Before going into private practice, I was a state-level and federal-level public defender in markets different from where I currently practice, but in the same region. I've been out of law school for around five years.

I'm currently on a state court-appointed list, and all of my cases come from that roster. The cases are high-level felony matters, and I have less than a dozen cases. I have applied for the federal court-appointed list (CJA panel) based on my federal experience. I anticipate that I'll get on that list by the end of the year.

I work from home. I have a business address that my mail is delivered to and scanned to me. I am a true solo and have no employees.

I've been in practice since around mid-March, and I've billed a little over $40,000.

I plan on doing state and federal court appointed work and seeing how far that takes me. I'm not very interested in a lot of the traditional business things that make one successful in private criminal defense practice (e.g., marketing, chasing down clients for money, handling a lot of speeding tickets/traffic matters, etc.).

Pros:
-I really enjoy being my own boss. I've had issues with every boss that I've ever had, where I thought that the office should be run differently. It's nice being able to call the shots, but also not have the responsibility of managing a large staff.
-Apart from appearing in court, I can make my own schedule. I've worked at offices in the past that had set hours (e.g., 8 a.m. - 5 p.m.) where I was expected to be in the office. I'm more of a night time person, so I often go to bed late, and get up around 9 a.m., so being able to work when I want is nice.
-I like being able to turn down cases if I don't want them. This wasn't possible when I was a public defender.
-I enjoy working from home. I work in t-shirts/sweat pants and then get dressed up when going to court or meeting clients.
-I believe that I'll make a lot more money in private practice, even though I had a six-figure salary as a federal public defender.

Cons:
-Now that I bill by the hour, I feel the need to constantly be working. When I worked for the public defender's office, I enjoyed talking to my colleagues throughout the day, or sometimes, I'd get distracted and surf the internet for 20 mins, but I was still getting paid because I was on salary. Now, if I get distracted and search the internet, I can't bill for that.
-Sometimes I miss having colleagues that I see in the office on a daily basis. But as I've been in practice now for a few months, this has gotten much easier. I've gotten involved with various groups in the community, and I've moved back to an area where I'm much closer to friends and family.
-I miss having benefits as part of my job (e.g., health insurance, paid vacation/sick leave etc.).
-I'm not a big fan of all the administrative things I need to do. Simple stuff, like setting up the client's file, sending out letters, scanning and organizing discovery materials, etc. Most of these things would have been done by support staff in the past.
-There are a lot of business things I will have to deal with soon (e.g., quarterly taxes, etc.) that I haven't dealt with yet. I'm just more interested in practicing law than being a business owner. I'm sure I'll outsource most of this at some point.
-One major con is that I'm no longer eligible for 10-year PSLF (public service loan forgiveness). I have a large amounts of student loans, and giving up PSLF was one of the hardest decisions I had to make. I ultimately decided that I'd be able to make more money in private practice to pay them off, and that I'd be happier overall, so I made the jump.

Overall, I've been very happy with my decision. I have much more control over my life and am making more money. I'm in my early thirties and I was in a good place to make this jump. If I were a little older and had a family and owned a home, I would have been too risk-averse to have left the federal public defender's office.

You'll always have insecurities and worries about going into private practice. It seems like there's never really a good time to do it. And you can always find good reasons not to do it. I would think about why you want to do it, and whether you're in a good place to make that move right now. I wanted greater freedom, and I felt that I had enough legal experience so that I could handle the kinds of cases that I'm interest in (more serious felony work). I also spent about 6 months planning for the move and I had around $50K saved (Fortunately, I haven't had to use anywhere close to that much to get things going). I guess I'll have a better idea in six months to a year about whether I made the right decision. But as for now, I'm satisfied with my choice.

Good Luck.

Thank you very much. This was a great post. Would you recommend doing PD work? Is it possible to become a federal public defender if one was not a PD but just went straight to a criminal firm? Really appreciate your insight and your post!

[futurePD24]

Thank you very much. This was a great post. Would you recommend doing PD work? Is it possible to become a federal public defender if one was not a PD but just went straight to a criminal firm? Really appreciate your insight and your post!

For anyone interested in criminal defense, I definitely recommend starting as a public defender. From day one you get a full caseload of clients charged with crimes, and you really get to learn how to be a lawyer. You get direct experience with the two most important aspects of practicing criminal defense--client interaction/management and courtroom skills. Sometimes when a new lawyer starts with a firm, the new lawyer is in a position of helping a more senior lawyer practice law. So there may not be nearly as much courtroom time or client interaction for the younger lawyer. That is obviously a generalization. But it's something I've observed. I wouldn't have felt comfortable going out on my own had I not been a public defender for around 5 years. I represented thousands of clients, charged with misdemeanors to serious felonies. I appeared in court every week. Tried jury trials. Litigated suppression hearings and other pretrial motions. Got experience dealing with many difficult clients, which is common in indigent criminal defense, where mental health issues and other kinds of social instability are the norm.

I've seen many paths taken to becoming an assistant federal public defender. I know people who clerked for a federal judge and then got an AFPD job. I've had colleagues who, like me, came from state public defender jobs. I've seen people who's prior experience is legal aid work (indigent civil work). I've had colleagues who were prosecutors--both state and federal. I've had several colleagues who came from biglaw. I've also seen people become AFPDs who worked in private practice as solo criminal defense attorneys or with small firms that handled criminal matters. I would say the most common path is either from a state public defender's office, or clerking for a federal judge and working at a firm. It's good to have a background that emphasizes either working with indigent criminal defendants (e.g., state public defense work), or experience that emphasizes federal practice and research/writing experience (e.g., federal clerk/biglaw experience).

Most federal defender's offices do not hire people directly from law school, but there are exceptions, and it is becoming more common. Federal Defender's of San Diego is known for hiring people directly from law school, and they regularly recruit at the major career fairs. Several offices have now started fellowship positions. These are typically 1-2 year positions for lawyers with little to no experience, and the goal is that these fellowships will turn into full-time positions--if not at the hosting office then at another office. You can find out more information about the fellowships and about employment at federal defender's offices in general by going to the "employment" tab on fd.org.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you very much. This was a great post. Would you recommend doing PD work? Is it possible to become a federal public defender if one was not a PD but just went straight to a criminal firm? Really appreciate your insight and your post!

For anyone interested in criminal defense, I definitely recommend starting as a public defender. From day one you get a full caseload of clients charged with crimes, and you really get to learn how to be a lawyer. You get direct experience with the two most important aspects of practicing criminal defense--client interaction/management and courtroom skills. Sometimes when a new lawyer starts with a firm, the new lawyer is in a position of helping a more senior lawyer practice law. So there may not be nearly as much courtroom time or client interaction for the younger lawyer. That is obviously a generalization. But it's something I've observed. I wouldn't have felt comfortable going out on my own had I not been a public defender for around 5 years. I represented thousands of clients, charged with misdemeanors to serious felonies. I appeared in court every week. Tried jury trials. Litigated suppression hearings and other pretrial motions. Got experience dealing with many difficult clients, which is common in indigent criminal defense, where mental health issues and other kinds of social instability are the norm.

I've seen many paths taken to becoming an assistant federal public defender. I know people who clerked for a federal judge and then got an AFPD job. I've had colleagues who, like me, came from state public defender jobs. I've seen people who's prior experience is legal aid work (indigent civil work). I've had colleagues who were prosecutors--both state and federal. I've had several colleagues who came from biglaw. I've also seen people become AFPDs who worked in private practice as solo criminal defense attorneys or with small firms that handled criminal matters. I would say the most common path is either from a state public defender's office, or clerking for a federal judge and working at a firm. It's good to have a background that emphasizes either working with indigent criminal defendants (e.g., state public defense work), or experience that emphasizes federal practice and research/writing experience (e.g., federal clerk/biglaw experience).

Most federal defender's offices do not hire people directly from law school, but there are exceptions, and it is becoming more common. Federal Defender's of San Diego is known for hiring people directly from law school, and they regularly recruit at the major career fairs. Several offices have now started fellowship positions. These are typically 1-2 year positions for lawyers with little to no experience, and the goal is that these fellowships will turn into full-time positions--if not at the hosting office then at another office. You can find out more information about the fellowships and about employment at federal defender's offices in general by going to the "employment" tab on fd.org.

This is really great to hear. Thank you so much. I'm actually debating making the jump at the moment to a criminal firm (I currently work in midlaw and am a junior focusing predominantly on L&E). Goals are AFPD, AUSA, or AGA, and maybe eventually a judge, if I get lucky. Current firm will let me take on some crim work, but nobody there will really be able to help me, so I'm afraid to pull the trigger on that (albeit, I have some folks outside my current firm who work in the field who told me they'd help if I needed it).
I do enjoy the litigation L&E work I do a lot, but I do not enjoy the transactional parts of my current job, and just feel like my goals and practice will be more fulfilled if I jump to crim. I'm a bit fearful of jumping to PD/ADA, as I do have a family to support.

[Anonymous User]

What’s compensation look like in both private and public?

[Anonymous User]

What’s compensation look like in both private and public?

The federal CJA rate, state appointment rate, and federal and state PD salaries in your jurisdiction should be easy to look up. In the private sector for paying clients there can be a big range depending on your clientele and specialization, with white-collar lawyers generally making the most. There are some things you might not expect too—I’ve heard that top DUI lawyers can make a ton.

[Anonymous User]

What’s compensation look like in both private and public?

The federal CJA rate, state appointment rate, and federal and state PD salaries in your jurisdiction should be easy to look up. In the private sector for paying clients there can be a big range depending on your clientele and specialization, with white-collar lawyers generally making the most. There are some things you might not expect too—I’ve heard that top DUI lawyers can make a ton.

That’s what I’ve heard about DUI lawyers, too, and it makes sense because it’s a really common offense, and once you’ve learned how to handle the cases, you can probably manage a fairly high volume of them. I’m not a DUI lawyer (or defense attorney at all, but I know a bunch of them), but my impression is that they’re relatively straightforward (at least most of them) and there are a finite number of defenses so if you specialize you can get good at them. And a DUI trial takes a morning, max. (Again, standard DUI, not involving other offenses like if someone gets hurt.)