SLS ALUM - Do Grades Matter for Lateralling? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I know this is a pretty niche question, and I'm in an incredibly privileged position as is. I've looked through the forums and although there is some more broad conversation about "do grades matter", I wanted to ask a more targetted question.

So I graduated SLS with mostly Ps and ~5 H's (the H's happened to be in the area of or adjacent to my area of practice). I'm currently 2 years out of law school in a regulatory practice at a solid but not glitzy firm. I'm mostly happy here but I was thinking of trying my luck at some of the top regulatory firms in DC (that aren't prohibitively grade conscious like Gibson or Covington) but I'm worried my grades won't get me there based on these forums. Recruiters haven't been too helpful in giving me an answer other than "no hurt in shooting your shot". To be more specific, I'm mostly looking at Hogan, WilmerHale, Sidley, Arnold & Porter, Davis Polk. Looking to the future, I'm also a bit worried about the transition to fed gov with my grades. I'm obviously not gunning for DOJ and my practice area is niche, but I have this pit in my stomach that my entire philosophy at SLS ("made it this far, may as well be happy and be there for my then newborn and spouse") is going to be a major impediment going forward.

Does anyone have any insight on the situation generally for below-ish median (HYSCNN) and lateralling in regulatory practice areas / or specific insight on these firms?

[Anonymous User]

I know this is a pretty niche question, and I'm in an incredibly privileged position as is. I've looked through the forums and although there is some more broad conversation about "do grades matter", I wanted to ask a more targetted question.

So I graduated SLS with mostly Ps and ~5 H's (the H's happened to be in the area of or adjacent to my area of practice). I'm currently 2 years out of law school in a regulatory practice at a solid but not glitzy firm. I'm mostly happy here but I was thinking of trying my luck at some of the top regulatory firms in DC (that aren't prohibitively grade conscious like Gibson or Covington) but I'm worried my grades won't get me there based on these forums. Recruiters haven't been too helpful in giving me an answer other than "no hurt in shooting your shot". To be more specific, I'm mostly looking at Hogan, WilmerHale, Sidley, Arnold & Porter, Davis Polk. Looking to the future, I'm also a bit worried about the transition to fed gov with my grades. I'm obviously not gunning for DOJ and my practice area is niche, but I have this pit in my stomach that my entire philosophy at SLS ("made it this far, may as well be happy and be there for my then newborn and spouse") is going to be a major impediment going forward.

Does anyone have any insight on the situation generally for below-ish median (HYSCNN) and lateralling in regulatory practice areas / or specific insight on these firms?

hey fellow sls alum. do you mean class of 2019 or 2020? i ask because class of 2020 had two quarters of MPH that prevented H's, so the denominator is much smaller for class of 2020. in other words, it's a bit harder if you're class of 2019. that said I still think you have a decent shot in either case. that's because if you're going for a specific regulatory area, that's less competitive than litigation. i definitely know folks who are at DC in nonlitigation positions with below average grades

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

Bigger issue than grades is being 2 years out. A couple more would make this a lot easier. Sounds like you were below median but it was SLS and regardless it’s unhelpful to worry too much about the grades

[Anonymous User]

SLS Alum: Hey! That’s good to hear, and yes 2020! Do you mean you know people who lateraled to those firms/gov because imagining would be quite hard to get that from OCI?

Yes, no question below median! Are we talking aim 3 or 4 years, in your opinion?

[Anonymous User]

SLS Alum: Hey! That’s good to hear, and yes 2020! Do you mean you know people who lateraled to those firms/gov because imagining would be quite hard to get that from OCI?

Yes, no question below median! Are we talking aim 3 or 4 years, in your opinion?

alum here, i mean they got those jobs during OCI. key might be they weren't litigation though, they were transactional/regulatory. im not sure exactly on the competitiveness of various regulatory practices and how close they are to transactioanl vs lit on the spectrum, though

edit: thinking about it some more, given that you had the two quarters of covid, i think you'd be in a fine spot for litigation too now that it's not OCI at all the firms you listed other than wilmer

[4thand9]

SLS alum here. I don’t think those grades would be much of a problem if you have relevant experience that makes up for it and interview well. Even at an OCI grade-conscious firm, I’ve seen some simple indifference to HYS’s H/P grades (particularly in light of COVID grades) for laterals, provided they’re an otherwise attractive candidate.

[Anonymous User]

I know this is a pretty niche question, and I'm in an incredibly privileged position as is. I've looked through the forums and although there is some more broad conversation about "do grades matter", I wanted to ask a more targetted question.

So I graduated SLS with mostly Ps and ~5 H's (the H's happened to be in the area of or adjacent to my area of practice). I'm currently 2 years out of law school in a regulatory practice at a solid but not glitzy firm. I'm mostly happy here but I was thinking of trying my luck at some of the top regulatory firms in DC (that aren't prohibitively grade conscious like Gibson or Covington) but I'm worried my grades won't get me there based on these forums. Recruiters haven't been too helpful in giving me an answer other than "no hurt in shooting your shot". To be more specific, I'm mostly looking at Hogan, WilmerHale, Sidley, Arnold & Porter, Davis Polk. Looking to the future, I'm also a bit worried about the transition to fed gov with my grades. I'm obviously not gunning for DOJ and my practice area is niche, but I have this pit in my stomach that my entire philosophy at SLS ("made it this far, may as well be happy and be there for my then newborn and spouse") is going to be a major impediment going forward.

Does anyone have any insight on the situation generally for below-ish median (HYSCNN) and lateralling in regulatory practice areas / or specific insight on these firms?

Hi fellow SLS alum! I graduated with meh grades and got post-clerkship offers from most of those D.C. firms you listed. However, big asterisk there is that I clerked; not sure I would've been able to get as many offers otherwise. That's all to say that if your practice area is somewhat niche, then I think you have a really good shot at some of these firms. Some of my friends who did not clerk ended up lateraling from less-glitzy firms to those that you mentioned were able to because of a niche practice area and/or networking hard before formally applying. Generally, in my and my friends' experiences, grades seem to matter less and less each year removed from law school.

[Anonymous User]

SLS c/o 2018/9 here--

Lateraled from a boutique in one market to a V10 in another about a year ago. Interviewed at a bunch of firms in the target market, and literally nobody even asked for a transcript. (Just a resume.) Granted, I'd clerked on the COA after SLS, so that may have been treated as a proxy. But I would have expected big firms at the very least to ask for transcripts so that they could "check the box." TLDR; I doubt your grades matter at all at this point.

[Anonymous User]

I know this is a pretty niche question, and I'm in an incredibly privileged position as is. I've looked through the forums and although there is some more broad conversation about "do grades matter", I wanted to ask a more targetted question.

So I graduated SLS with mostly Ps and ~5 H's (the H's happened to be in the area of or adjacent to my area of practice). I'm currently 2 years out of law school in a regulatory practice at a solid but not glitzy firm. I'm mostly happy here but I was thinking of trying my luck at some of the top regulatory firms in DC (that aren't prohibitively grade conscious like Gibson or Covington) but I'm worried my grades won't get me there based on these forums. Recruiters haven't been too helpful in giving me an answer other than "no hurt in shooting your shot". To be more specific, I'm mostly looking at Hogan, WilmerHale, Sidley, Arnold & Porter, Davis Polk. Looking to the future, I'm also a bit worried about the transition to fed gov with my grades. I'm obviously not gunning for DOJ and my practice area is niche, but I have this pit in my stomach that my entire philosophy at SLS ("made it this far, may as well be happy and be there for my then newborn and spouse") is going to be a major impediment going forward.

Does anyone have any insight on the situation generally for below-ish median (HYSCNN) and lateralling in regulatory practice areas / or specific insight on these firms?

Hi fellow SLS alum! I graduated with meh grades and got post-clerkship offers from most of those D.C. firms you listed. However, big asterisk there is that I clerked; not sure I would've been able to get as many offers otherwise. That's all to say that if your practice area is somewhat niche, then I think you have a really good shot at some of these firms. Some of my friends who did not clerk ended up lateraling from less-glitzy firms to those that you mentioned were able to because of a niche practice area and/or networking hard before formally applying. Generally, in my and my friends' experiences, grades seem to matter less and less each year removed from law school.

This is really good to hear thank you. I was considering clerking but realized it would make me fairly miserable. My practice area is fairly removed from litigation (though having a litigation background helps from what I have heard) and so it's difficult to justify doing something I absolutely despise (Westlaw/Lexis research and brief writing) for a year on the chance it will help me "upgrade". I've told myself if necessary I would try for a clerkship, but hoping in part through this post to figure out if it truly is necessary (sounds like it might not be?). Because of covid and remote work, it's been hard to really put my finger on the exact logistics of all of this. Thanks for everyone's help!

[Anonymous User]

In a similar boat - does this still apply now that the lateral market has cooled off?

[Anonymous User]

I did this at the end of 2021. Pure median at a T6, 2 years at a less grade selective firm (but Chambers Band 1 practice group), and received multiple offers from more grade selective firms (including Covington and Gibson) when I was looking to lateral. I ended up lateraling to a firm that didn’t even give me a callback during OCI. In my case, my resume made it clear that I had a genuine interest in my practice area and I was able to discuss very substantive questions in my interviews.

I think grades start being less of an important factor earlier for attorneys in specialty groups; it’s more important to show that you can contribute immediately after starting. There is always someone willing to consider an opportunistic hire for niche groups, even when hiring for more traditional corporate groups is down. I would recommend working with a recruiter because many of these openings aren’t posted.

[nealric]

I wouldn't count yourself out anywhere that has a practice within your specialty. Grades gradually fade for lateral purposes as you get more senior, but I think the effect would be even more pronounced in a specialized regulatory practice and a HYS alum. There's only going to be a handful of qualified candidates for these openings, and they are unlikely to even have the luxury of counting someone out because they were a few "Hs" below expectations. It's just a very different hiring environment from SA hiring, where all they really have to go by is grades.

[Anonymous User]

SLS alum at one of the DC firms you listed. There is not a hard grade cutoff for SLS, although we do have an aspirational number of 1L Hs. 5 total would be below that number on a per-year basis, but (1) grades were a cluster during Covid and (2) we often will give an SLS alum a shot even if they are below the aspirational cutoff.

If you’re interested, happy to find a way to chat offline and fill you in on the firm and discuss any potential openings.

[Anonymous User]

SLS alum at one of the DC firms you listed. There is not a hard grade cutoff for SLS, although we do have an aspirational number of 1L Hs. 5 total would be below that number on a per-year basis, but (1) grades were a cluster during Covid and (2) we often will give an SLS alum a shot even if they are below the aspirational cutoff.

If you’re interested, happy to find a way to chat offline and fill you in on the firm and discuss any potential openings.

This is really kind of you, thank you. When you have a moment, can you send me an email at j71582352@gmail.com (throwaway) and I'll respond from my proper email

[Anonymous User]

SLS alum at one of the DC firms you listed. There is not a hard grade cutoff for SLS, although we do have an aspirational number of 1L Hs. 5 total would be below that number on a per-year basis, but (1) grades were a cluster during Covid and (2) we often will give an SLS alum a shot even if they are below the aspirational cutoff.

If you’re interested, happy to find a way to chat offline and fill you in on the firm and discuss any potential openings.

Any reason you can't just let us know the aspirational number, since you are not even specifying the firm? Also an SLS alum and can see that being helpful both for students entering OCI and alums looking to lateral.

[Anonymous User]

SLS alum at one of the DC firms you listed. There is not a hard grade cutoff for SLS, although we do have an aspirational number of 1L Hs. 5 total would be below that number on a per-year basis, but (1) grades were a cluster during Covid and (2) we often will give an SLS alum a shot even if they are below the aspirational cutoff.

If you’re interested, happy to find a way to chat offline and fill you in on the firm and discuss any potential openings.

This is really kind of you, thank you. When you have a moment, can you send me an email at j71582352@gmail.com (throwaway) and I'll respond from my proper email

Anon poster who made the offer. I just sent an email to your throwaway. Please comment here if you didn't receive it!

[Anonymous User]

SLS alum at one of the DC firms you listed. There is not a hard grade cutoff for SLS, although we do have an aspirational number of 1L Hs. 5 total would be below that number on a per-year basis, but (1) grades were a cluster during Covid and (2) we often will give an SLS alum a shot even if they are below the aspirational cutoff.

If you’re interested, happy to find a way to chat offline and fill you in on the firm and discuss any potential openings.

Any reason you can't just let us know the aspirational number, since you are not even specifying the firm? Also an SLS alum and can see that being helpful both for students entering OCI and alums looking to lateral.

Sure thing. Our "aspirational" cutoff for grades at SLS is 3-4 Hs in 1L (and our firm is known for being grade conscious). By no means is this strict, however. I had success this year talking the hiring committee into giving a student with no Hs a callback (as well as another student with 1H) who interviewed very well. We tend not to be as flexible for non-YSH schools.

My biggest advice for students entering OCI is to contact an alum at firms before you do your screener. My first substantive question tends to be "Why this firm?", and 98% of students say something that could be re-used for any firm. A student who says "I reached out to So-and-So, and she said [this] about her experience at the firm. That's what I'm looking for because []" is almost a lock for a callback recommendation.