Secondment Salary and Class Year Forum

[Anonymous User]

Curious about secondments!

When you go on secondment from a firm, are you getting paid by the firm or is the company paying you? If the company is paying you, is your salary tied to your class year or is their some other metric they use? Does a secondment count towards your class year?

[Anonymous User]

Not to hijack your thread, but adding another question. How can you effectively resist a secondment? Anon because associates at my firm who get seconded are usually not allowed back.

[Anonymous User]

If it's a one way street....you probably can't push back and should try to lateral ASAP. I mean you could refuse but you're setting yourself up to get fired.

[Bramwell]

To answer OP’s question, SOP is that you’re firm pays you’re salary, all hours requirements (and time keeping for that matter are out the door. It’s a great opportunity to learn how a client operates while still being paid big law salary. I would not assume that you’re firm is pushing you out (and you should ask/discuss if you think otherwise)

[Anonymous User]

It probably varies by firm / practice group / specific circumstances, but in my personal experience, my secondment with a major firm client did not mean I was getting pushed out. Quite to the contrary, actually. It was an incredible experience, substantively, business development-wise, and from a lifestyle perspective (i.e., getting paid firm salary, no hours requirements, no need to even bother checking email more than once or twice on the weekend, very few late nights, etc.). Just adding this as another data point to consider.

[Anonymous User]

As an overall matter I don't think firms want to send someone to a client on secondment if that individual won't represent the firm well. It would be a very expensive and risky way to ease someone out. The only "bad" secondment situation I'm aware of is an associate being sent to an unsavory client with the understanding that that associate would probably see emails and have their fingerprints on projects that weren't great from an ethical perspective, but within the firm this was seen as that associate being a real team player and doing the partners a solid. Otherwise everyone came back from secondments with increased value at the firm given the client relationship.

[Anonymous User]

As an overall matter I don't think firms want to send someone to a client on secondment if that individual won't represent the firm well. It would be a very expensive and risky way to ease someone out. The only "bad" secondment situation I'm aware of is an associate being sent to an unsavory client with the understanding that that associate would probably see emails and have their fingerprints on projects that weren't great from an ethical perspective, but within the firm this was seen as that associate being a real team player and doing the partners a solid. Otherwise everyone came back from secondments with increased value at the firm given the client relationship.

"everyone came back with x" is a classic airplane meme survivorship bias. You're only looking at the people who come back, not the ones who don't.

[Anonymous User]

It probably varies by firm / practice group / specific circumstances, but in my personal experience, my secondment with a major firm client did not mean I was getting pushed out. Quite to the contrary, actually. It was an incredible experience, substantively, business development-wise, and from a lifestyle perspective (i.e., getting paid firm salary, no hours requirements, no need to even bother checking email more than once or twice on the weekend, very few late nights, etc.). Just adding this as another data point to consider.

Curious how you got the secondment. Did you ask to be seconded or did the partners come to you? I'm very interested. Seems like it would be a great experience for all of the reasons you mentioned.

[Anonymous User]

As an overall matter I don't think firms want to send someone to a client on secondment if that individual won't represent the firm well. It would be a very expensive and risky way to ease someone out. The only "bad" secondment situation I'm aware of is an associate being sent to an unsavory client with the understanding that that associate would probably see emails and have their fingerprints on projects that weren't great from an ethical perspective, but within the firm this was seen as that associate being a real team player and doing the partners a solid. Otherwise everyone came back from secondments with increased value at the firm given the client relationship.

"everyone came back with x" is a classic airplane meme survivorship bias. You're only looking at the people who come back, not the ones who don't.

As the anon who mentioned the issue of getting pushed out via secondment, thanks for pointing out the survivorship bias. Posts like the one you're responding to make it seem like the issue occurs rarely or never but every year I hear from at least three former associates who experienced it. And those are just the associates I worked with enough for them to confide in me. The client you're seconded to probably does matter for this and whether your firm continues to pay you the same or at all.

[existentialcrisis]

As an overall matter I don't think firms want to send someone to a client on secondment if that individual won't represent the firm well. It would be a very expensive and risky way to ease someone out. The only "bad" secondment situation I'm aware of is an associate being sent to an unsavory client with the understanding that that associate would probably see emails and have their fingerprints on projects that weren't great from an ethical perspective, but within the firm this was seen as that associate being a real team player and doing the partners a solid. Otherwise everyone came back from secondments with increased value at the firm given the client relationship.

"everyone came back with x" is a classic airplane meme survivorship bias. You're only looking at the people who come back, not the ones who don't.

As the anon who mentioned the issue of getting pushed out via secondment, thanks for pointing out the survivorship bias. Posts like the one you're responding to make it seem like the issue occurs rarely or never but every year I hear from at least three former associates who experienced it. And those are just the associates I worked with enough for them to confide in me. The client you're seconded to probably does matter for this and whether your firm continues to pay you the same or at all.

Lol it is definitely not the case that most firms use secondments as a way to push people out.

The "survivorship" point ignores the extremely common scenario where burned out associates ask for a secondment because they want a springboard to go in-house.

I would venture to say that most associates that stay with a client after a secondment do so voluntarily.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but generally it doesn't make sense for firms to send associates they think are bad to go represent them at clients.

Maybe your firm does it this way on occasion, but color me pretty skeptical and extremely skeptical that this is how most firms operate.

There's also a scenario here where a firm knows that an associate has had enough and would rather have them go to a client than lateral to another firm and so tries to set him or her up to go in house. I wouldn't really call that "being pushed out".

[12YrsAnAssociate]

I'm only posting to add that at every firm I've worked at, it's not at all a negative thing to do a secondment, and the associates that were sent on secondments were in good standing and fully expected to come back. The firms I'm thinking of sent associates to their tip-top clients, and the last thing the firm would do is jeopardize those relationships by sending associates they didn't view as very good.

I actually always wanted to do a secondment, but never saw an opportunity, and at this point I doubt that a secondment would make financial sense.

[Anonymous User]

It probably varies by firm / practice group / specific circumstances, but in my personal experience, my secondment with a major firm client did not mean I was getting pushed out. Quite to the contrary, actually. It was an incredible experience, substantively, business development-wise, and from a lifestyle perspective (i.e., getting paid firm salary, no hours requirements, no need to even bother checking email more than once or twice on the weekend, very few late nights, etc.). Just adding this as another data point to consider.

Curious how you got the secondment. Did you ask to be seconded or did the partners come to you? I'm very interested. Seems like it would be a great experience for all of the reasons you mentioned.

The prospect of a secondment came up during casual conversation with a trusted mentor. After getting comfortable that firm leadership viewed this as an important opportunity for the firm, and that my taking the secondment wouldn't be viewed as a "negative" in the firm's eyes, I jumped at the opportunity. This is why I said this is very fact specific and circumstances driven -- you need to speak with trusted advisors about the role and get comfortable that you will be welcomed back with open arms at the conclusion of the secondment. You also should speak with partners that you work with the most to make sure your transition to and from the secondment will go smoothly.

FWIW, I agree with the posters that have said firms typically aren't sending bad or mediocre associates to secondments with important firm clients/prospects. Typically, a main goal of the secondment from the firm's perspective is business development / strengthening ties between the client and attorneys at the firm.