Deferring big law offer for fellowship? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 2L and am seriously considering applying for a fellowship, and I think I'm going to be competitive. I'm headed to a big law firm that I'm excited about this summer, so this is a bit premature but would be good to know if that's a conversation I should even broach post (hopefully) offer?. Do law firms allow a year-long deferral for a fellowship (Skadden, EJF, Justice Catalyst, law school sponsored)? How difficult are these to negotiate, and any strategies?

[nixy]

Do those fellowship programs select people who are going into biglaw? I thought they were more for establishing a PI career (some of the former fellows I can find are at firms, but firms representing employees or taking educational access cases, not traditional biglaw). Law school-sponsored could be different, I suppose.

[Anonymous User]

Agree that someone with a 2L SA will have a harder time getting a Skadden, etc., as you will be competing against people who have a demonstrated commitment through their 2L summer work to PI generally/their issue in particular. The fellowships are intended as a platform for people to start their careers in PI, though of course some people probably go into private practice after they finish for a variety of reasons. Not saying don't try, and there may be examples of people who did summer SAs and got one of the big fellowships, but I think it is pretty unusual, and it might be helpful to talk to the PI person at your school about what you can do to bolster your application despite doing an SA.

[Anonymous User]

You can broach a conversation with your biglaw firm about deferring a year for a PI fellowship after you get an offer to return as a full-time associate. I think it's unlikely that your firm will agree though. Skadden and EJW are two-year fellowships, so if you were to come to the biglaw firm after that, you'd be a third-year.

The more relevant question is: if you're interested in a PI fellowship, then why are you doing a 2L biglaw summer at all? Or the inverse: if you're interested in biglaw for your 2L summer, then why consider a public interest fellowship? These are two pretty separate tracks and there's not much overlap.

What I have seen done is graduation --> biglaw firm for 1-2 years --> clerkship(s) --> public interest fellowship. Clerkships provide a good pivot opportunity career-wise. And then in the personal statement for the fellowship, you just explain that you did biglaw for a while but hated it so now you want to join the "good guys".

[Anonymous User]

Agree that someone with a 2L SA will have a harder time getting a Skadden, etc., as you will be competing against people who have a demonstrated commitment through their 2L summer work to PI generally/their issue in particular. The fellowships are intended as a platform for people to start their careers in PI, though of course some people probably go into private practice after they finish for a variety of reasons. Not saying don't try, and there may be examples of people who did summer SAs and got one of the big fellowships, but I think it is pretty unusual, and it might be helpful to talk to the PI person at your school about what you can do to bolster your application despite doing an SA.

That's helpful to know, in truth I wasn't going to apply to EJW/Skadden per earlier comments because 1.) I'd much prefer a 1-year commitment and 2.) the fellowship would be in an area not covered by Skadden/EJW (but covered by others) and bears some resemblance to my big law practice area. I'm more curious, how would my firm look at this? Is there any chance they would grant a deferral?

[Anonymous User]

It really depends on the firm, their business needs, and even their relationship to your proposed fellowship sponsors and host org.

What you’re talking about has been done before, but it’s rare for people to want this, let alone negotiate it successfully. You need to get to know your summer firm better, both in terms of its commitment to pro bono and it’s lawyers to figure out whether you can negotiate what you’re talking about, and whether there are senior people who will help you negotiate this.

[Anonymous User]

Go for it OP. I summered at a firm my 2L summer and am currently in a PI fellowship (funded through my law school, though). It's definitely possible. Just be prepared for a few asshole interviewers who will really rail you for having summered at a firm, despite most of them having also done biglaw before pivoting into public interest. Come up with stellar answers.

[Anonymous User]

Wouldn't the firm, from its perspective, see you as a flight risk (potentially down the line leaving for PI) and uncommitted to the biglaw lifestyle?

[Anonymous User]

Wouldn't the firm, from its perspective, see you as a flight risk (potentially down the line leaving for PI) and uncommitted to the biglaw lifestyle?

If it's a true biglaw factory with 100+ first-years, they may not care. All associates are flight-risks.

[Anonymous User]

Agree that someone with a 2L SA will have a harder time getting a Skadden, etc., as you will be competing against people who have a demonstrated commitment through their 2L summer work to PI generally/their issue in particular. The fellowships are intended as a platform for people to start their careers in PI, though of course some people probably go into private practice after they finish for a variety of reasons. Not saying don't try, and there may be examples of people who did summer SAs and got one of the big fellowships, but I think it is pretty unusual, and it might be helpful to talk to the PI person at your school about what you can do to bolster your application despite doing an SA.

That's helpful to know, in truth I wasn't going to apply to EJW/Skadden per earlier comments because 1.) I'd much prefer a 1-year commitment and 2.) the fellowship would be in an area not covered by Skadden/EJW (but covered by others) and bears some resemblance to my big law practice area. I'm more curious, how would my firm look at this? Is there any chance they would grant a deferral?

You don't even know if you would get a fellowship. TBH, the fellowships are much more likely to pick someone who's committed to doing public service, not just someone who wants to do it as a year for a break/learning experience. It's supposed to start your career--it can genuinely be tough to get a foot in the door at PI places/with little funding so it's a huge help. But if you ultimately want to do big law, you're taking away an opportunity for someone who could utilize it more. Yes, you'd gain experience in your practice area, and I'm sure you're well-qualified and a fantastic human being, but if you're going into big law, you don't need the kind of career help fellowships were designed to provide. You also have to talk about your commitment to PI in the application and that seems like it will be difficult for you to demonstrate.

[Anonymous User]

Agree that someone with a 2L SA will have a harder time getting a Skadden, etc., as you will be competing against people who have a demonstrated commitment through their 2L summer work to PI generally/their issue in particular. The fellowships are intended as a platform for people to start their careers in PI, though of course some people probably go into private practice after they finish for a variety of reasons. Not saying don't try, and there may be examples of people who did summer SAs and got one of the big fellowships, but I think it is pretty unusual, and it might be helpful to talk to the PI person at your school about what you can do to bolster your application despite doing an SA.

That's helpful to know, in truth I wasn't going to apply to EJW/Skadden per earlier comments because 1.) I'd much prefer a 1-year commitment and 2.) the fellowship would be in an area not covered by Skadden/EJW (but covered by others) and bears some resemblance to my big law practice area. I'm more curious, how would my firm look at this? Is there any chance they would grant a deferral?

You don't even know if you would get a fellowship. TBH, the fellowships are much more likely to pick someone who's committed to doing public service, not just someone who wants to do it as a year for a break/learning experience. It's supposed to start your career--it can genuinely be tough to get a foot in the door at PI places/with little funding so it's a huge help. But if you ultimately want to do big law, you're taking away an opportunity for someone who could utilize it more. Yes, you'd gain experience in your practice area, and I'm sure you're well-qualified and a fantastic human being, but if you're going into big law, you don't need the kind of career help fellowships were designed to provide. You also have to talk about your commitment to PI in the application and that seems like it will be difficult for you to demonstrate.

OP, don't listen to stuff like this. Apply to your fellowships and let the sponsors/PI orgs tell you this.

It seems like folks in this thread are missing that OP is not asking us what PI orgs will think of a summer at a big law firm; they're asking what big law firms think about spending their first year out of law school at a PI org/fellowship.

[Anonymous User]

Agree that someone with a 2L SA will have a harder time getting a Skadden, etc., as you will be competing against people who have a demonstrated commitment through their 2L summer work to PI generally/their issue in particular. The fellowships are intended as a platform for people to start their careers in PI, though of course some people probably go into private practice after they finish for a variety of reasons. Not saying don't try, and there may be examples of people who did summer SAs and got one of the big fellowships, but I think it is pretty unusual, and it might be helpful to talk to the PI person at your school about what you can do to bolster your application despite doing an SA.

That's helpful to know, in truth I wasn't going to apply to EJW/Skadden per earlier comments because 1.) I'd much prefer a 1-year commitment and 2.) the fellowship would be in an area not covered by Skadden/EJW (but covered by others) and bears some resemblance to my big law practice area. I'm more curious, how would my firm look at this? Is there any chance they would grant a deferral?

You don't even know if you would get a fellowship. TBH, the fellowships are much more likely to pick someone who's committed to doing public service, not just someone who wants to do it as a year for a break/learning experience. It's supposed to start your career--it can genuinely be tough to get a foot in the door at PI places/with little funding so it's a huge help. But if you ultimately want to do big law, you're taking away an opportunity for someone who could utilize it more. Yes, you'd gain experience in your practice area, and I'm sure you're well-qualified and a fantastic human being, but if you're going into big law, you don't need the kind of career help fellowships were designed to provide. You also have to talk about your commitment to PI in the application and that seems like it will be difficult for you to demonstrate.

OP, don't listen to stuff like this. Apply to your fellowships and let the sponsors/PI orgs tell you this.

It seems like folks in this thread are missing that OP is not asking us what PI orgs will think of a summer at a big law firm; they're asking what big law firms think about spending their first year out of law school at a PI org/fellowship.

I think people were just pointing out that getting a PI fellowship (especially a "prestigious" one -- I have no idea about individual law school fellowships) is exceptionally difficult -- far more difficult than getting an SA even at a top firm, especially for people whose demonstrated commitment to PI is shaky, so OP can manage expectations.

[Anonymous User]

Agree that someone with a 2L SA will have a harder time getting a Skadden, etc., as you will be competing against people who have a demonstrated commitment through their 2L summer work to PI generally/their issue in particular. The fellowships are intended as a platform for people to start their careers in PI, though of course some people probably go into private practice after they finish for a variety of reasons. Not saying don't try, and there may be examples of people who did summer SAs and got one of the big fellowships, but I think it is pretty unusual, and it might be helpful to talk to the PI person at your school about what you can do to bolster your application despite doing an SA.

That's helpful to know, in truth I wasn't going to apply to EJW/Skadden per earlier comments because 1.) I'd much prefer a 1-year commitment and 2.) the fellowship would be in an area not covered by Skadden/EJW (but covered by others) and bears some resemblance to my big law practice area. I'm more curious, how would my firm look at this? Is there any chance they would grant a deferral?

You don't even know if you would get a fellowship. TBH, the fellowships are much more likely to pick someone who's committed to doing public service, not just someone who wants to do it as a year for a break/learning experience. It's supposed to start your career--it can genuinely be tough to get a foot in the door at PI places/with little funding so it's a huge help. But if you ultimately want to do big law, you're taking away an opportunity for someone who could utilize it more. Yes, you'd gain experience in your practice area, and I'm sure you're well-qualified and a fantastic human being, but if you're going into big law, you don't need the kind of career help fellowships were designed to provide. You also have to talk about your commitment to PI in the application and that seems like it will be difficult for you to demonstrate.

OP, don't listen to stuff like this. Apply to your fellowships and let the sponsors/PI orgs tell you this.

It seems like folks in this thread are missing that OP is not asking us what PI orgs will think of a summer at a big law firm; they're asking what big law firms think about spending their first year out of law school at a PI org/fellowship.

Thanks for being understanding ^, and yeah my question is definitely about what my law firm would say.

I may have come off as presumptuous here, definitely don't think it's a guarantee or that I'm even likely to get a fellowship, just think I have a unique background (that has nothing to do with whether im an excellent human being or not to an above posters quip) that makes a fellowship in this niche area within the realm of possibility. And to your point about PI being hard to get into and the fellowship about getting your foot into the door, I agree! Perhaps I won't go back to my firm after this theoretical fellowship, but there is a very limited range of legal positions in this field and judge me judge me not but the sense of security that a firm provides in a practice area I can stomach is not something I want to throw away.

Anyways, Seems like people are saying it's pretty law-firm specific and dependent on a range of circumstances that I currently have little control over. But would love to hear if anyone has seen anyone negotiate something like this / any other relevant insight on the "what would my firm think" side of the equation.

[Anonymous User]

I spent my 2L summer at a biglaw firm and then my first year out of law school at a biglaw firm. Then I did two clerkships and applied for a Skadden. I didn't get the fellowship, but I did get past the first round as a semi-finalist and I was interviewed. In the application, I said that, due to financial hardship, I had no choice but to do biglaw to support my family. I also played up the pro bono I did while at the biglaw firm. That I spent time in biglaw didn't seem to be disqualifying and they appeared to accept my rationalizations. Of course, I didn't ultimately get the Skadden so who knows.

[CanadianWolf]

I'm a 2L and am seriously considering applying for a fellowship, and I think I'm going to be competitive. I'm headed to a big law firm that I'm excited about this summer, so this is a bit premature but would be good to know if that's a conversation I should even broach post (hopefully) offer?. Do law firms allow a year-long deferral for a fellowship (Skadden, EJF, Justice Catalyst, law school sponsored)? How difficult are these to negotiate, and any strategies?

Not enough info. to enable one to offer reasonable advice beyond apply for the fellowship, then, if accepted, raise this issue with more specific information.

[BrowsingTLS]

Unless OP has stellar credentials, this sounds like a bad idea if working in biglaw is a priority. There's no guarantee a biglaw firm will take you after a prestigious public interest fellowship. Some firms don't even take their associates back after a clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

bumping because also curious