Avoiding RTO Forum

[nixy]

Eh, writing stuff out is more work and often less clear than discussing it.

I was talking about requesting a time to discuss that's convenient for both parties, not providing the whole explanation via Skype/Teams/etc. Agreed that's not always useful.

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. Yeah, scheduling works and is often the most considerate. It depends on the people involved and your office culture.

[Anonymous User]

The mute button is the single most powerful training tool lawyers have, and it's completely worthless if you aren't together with your colleagues.

[Anonymous User]

The mute button is the single most powerful training tool lawyers have, and it's completely worthless if you aren't together with your colleagues.

you can just chat over IM while on a call to replicate the awkward conversations during mute, likely with better results because each person has the documents available to them in a searchable format

[BigLawPartner]

The mute button is the single most powerful training tool lawyers have, and it's completely worthless if you aren't together with your colleagues.

you can just chat over IM while on a call to replicate the awkward conversations during mute, likely with better results because each person has the documents available to them in a searchable format

In my experience, not many folks over 40 at my firm are chatting over IM.

[ConfusedNYer]

Also a lot of the juiciest tidbits are things most lawyers probably aren't going to write out even in IM.

[GFox345]

Eh, writing stuff out is more work and often less clear than discussing it.

I was talking about requesting a time to discuss that's convenient for both parties, not providing the whole explanation via Skype/Teams/etc. Agreed that's not always useful.

If you have to schedule it it's not the same. Also, why do people keep reviving this thread every couple weeks? It's literally the same stupid debate over and over. It's like there's an endless stream of WFH warrior who come to the party late thinking they've got the lynchpin argument that's going to vindicate 11 pages of stupidity. After each round we end up in the same place - it's a judgment call. Go (or stay?) home.

Okay, boomer. Using a horse and buggy over a car is also a "judgment call," I suppose. I guess there are worse names to be called than a "WFH warrior." Someone has to drag you cavemen into the future.

[Anonymous User]

Eh, writing stuff out is more work and often less clear than discussing it.

I was talking about requesting a time to discuss that's convenient for both parties, not providing the whole explanation via Skype/Teams/etc. Agreed that's not always useful.

If you have to schedule it it's not the same. Also, why do people keep reviving this thread every couple weeks? It's literally the same stupid debate over and over. It's like there's an endless stream of WFH warrior who come to the party late thinking they've got the lynchpin argument that's going to vindicate 11 pages of stupidity. After each round we end up in the same place - it's a judgment call. Go (or stay?) home.

Okay, boomer. Using a horse and buggy over a car is also a "judgment call," I suppose. I guess there are worse names to be called than a "WFH warrior." Someone has to drag you cavemen into the future.

Lol at yet another WFH warrior flying off the handles based on some rando forum post. #Classic for this thread.

Also the false parallel between WFH vs. RTO and horse/buggy vs. car is exactly why I keep coming back despite this whole issue being settled. A for effort, though.

Mod note: user Cornerstone outed for anon abuse

[GFox345]

Eh, writing stuff out is more work and often less clear than discussing it.

I was talking about requesting a time to discuss that's convenient for both parties, not providing the whole explanation via Skype/Teams/etc. Agreed that's not always useful.

If you have to schedule it it's not the same. Also, why do people keep reviving this thread every couple weeks? It's literally the same stupid debate over and over. It's like there's an endless stream of WFH warrior who come to the party late thinking they've got the lynchpin argument that's going to vindicate 11 pages of stupidity. After each round we end up in the same place - it's a judgment call. Go (or stay?) home.

Okay, boomer. Using a horse and buggy over a car is also a "judgment call," I suppose. I guess there are worse names to be called than a "WFH warrior." Someone has to drag you cavemen into the future.

Lol at yet another WFH warrior flying off the handles based on some rando forum post. #Classic for this thread.

Also the false parallel between WFH vs. RTO and horse/buggy vs. car is exactly why I keep coming back despite this whole issue being settled. A for effort, though.

I presume the irony of making fun of someone for replying to a random forum post while replying to a random forum post (and abusing anon to boot!) is lost on you. And I'm sure the defenders of the abacus against the computer thought the horse/buggy comparison was a "false parallel" too. It's cute. lol

[Anonymous User]

Eh, writing stuff out is more work and often less clear than discussing it.

I was talking about requesting a time to discuss that's convenient for both parties, not providing the whole explanation via Skype/Teams/etc. Agreed that's not always useful.

If you have to schedule it it's not the same. Also, why do people keep reviving this thread every couple weeks? It's literally the same stupid debate over and over. It's like there's an endless stream of WFH warrior who come to the party late thinking they've got the lynchpin argument that's going to vindicate 11 pages of stupidity. After each round we end up in the same place - it's a judgment call. Go (or stay?) home.

Okay, boomer. Using a horse and buggy over a car is also a "judgment call," I suppose. I guess there are worse names to be called than a "WFH warrior." Someone has to drag you cavemen into the future.

Lol at yet another WFH warrior flying off the handles based on some rando forum post. #Classic for this thread.

Also the false parallel between WFH vs. RTO and horse/buggy vs. car is exactly why I keep coming back despite this whole issue being settled. A for effort, though.

I presume the irony of making fun of someone for replying to a random forum post while replying to a random forum post (and abusing anon to boot!) is lost on you. And I'm sure the defenders of the abacus against the computer thought the horse/buggy comparison was a "false parallel" too. It's cute. lol

Okay Dean Kamen.

[mwells_56]

Eh, writing stuff out is more work and often less clear than discussing it.

I was talking about requesting a time to discuss that's convenient for both parties, not providing the whole explanation via Skype/Teams/etc. Agreed that's not always useful.

If you have to schedule it it's not the same. Also, why do people keep reviving this thread every couple weeks? It's literally the same stupid debate over and over. It's like there's an endless stream of WFH warrior who come to the party late thinking they've got the lynchpin argument that's going to vindicate 11 pages of stupidity. After each round we end up in the same place - it's a judgment call. Go (or stay?) home.

Okay, boomer. Using a horse and buggy over a car is also a "judgment call," I suppose. I guess there are worse names to be called than a "WFH warrior." Someone has to drag you cavemen into the future.

Lol at yet another WFH warrior flying off the handles based on some rando forum post. #Classic for this thread.

Also the false parallel between WFH vs. RTO and horse/buggy vs. car is exactly why I keep coming back despite this whole issue being settled. A for effort, though.

I presume the irony of making fun of someone for replying to a random forum post while replying to a random forum post (and abusing anon to boot!) is lost on you. And I'm sure the defenders of the abacus against the computer thought the horse/buggy comparison was a "false parallel" too. It's cute. lol

Based on your profile picture I'm assuming you just want to WFH so you can grind Slippi Unranked all day (like I do on slow days)

[objctnyrhnr]

There are a ton of benefits to being in office with colleagues, especially when it comes to developing juniors.

With that said, as a mid/senior who already has relationships, all of the non billable hours and lost flexibility entailed in returning to office more than like a day every week or two does not outweigh the benefits of RTO for me personally.

Both things can be true.

[Anonymous User]

There are a ton of benefits to being in office with colleagues, especially when it comes to developing juniors.

With that said, as a mid/senior who already has relationships, all of the non billable hours and lost flexibility entailed in returning to office more than like a day every week or two does not outweigh the benefits of RTO for me personally.

Both things can be true.

I agree with most of this. The trickiest part is that those first and second years who most benefit from RTO need the more senior people to be there in order to gain most of those benefits. I have a little guilt about gaining skills and learning from mentors as a junior and now putting the next wave of juniors in far more difficult circumstances to learn when I am refusing to go in. But only a little guilt.

[objctnyrhnr]

There are a ton of benefits to being in office with colleagues, especially when it comes to developing juniors.

With that said, as a mid/senior who already has relationships, all of the non billable hours and lost flexibility entailed in returning to office more than like a day every week or two does not outweigh the benefits of RTO for me personally.

Both things can be true.

I agree with most of this. The trickiest part is that those first and second years who most benefit from RTO need the more senior people to be there in order to gain most of those benefits. I have a little guilt about gaining skills and learning from mentors as a junior and now putting the next wave of juniors in far more difficult circumstances to learn when I am refusing to go in. But only a little guilt.

Haha seconded

[Anonymous User]

There are a ton of benefits to being in office with colleagues, especially when it comes to developing juniors.

With that said, as a mid/senior who already has relationships, all of the non billable hours and lost flexibility entailed in returning to office more than like a day every week or two does not outweigh the benefits of RTO for me personally.

Both things can be true.

I agree with most of this. The trickiest part is that those first and second years who most benefit from RTO need the more senior people to be there in order to gain most of those benefits. I have a little guilt about gaining skills and learning from mentors as a junior and now putting the next wave of juniors in far more difficult circumstances to learn when I am refusing to go in. But only a little guilt.

Haha seconded

I'm a relatively new SP and will say that I have more than a little guilt about this. Can definitely tell that it's effecting the skillsets of younger folks. While I really try to do everything that I can to replicate the training elements of "shooting the shit on a random issue for 2 minutes when you bump into people in the halls" and "hitting the mute button so you can explain exactly why the other side is totally full of it," there are definitely things that just don't translate.

Also, young associates just do not feel as comfortable calling me as they do swinging by my office. My calendar is always pretty full, so scheduling a call feels like a bigger deal than swinging by and noticing I'm not on the phone. Again, I try to do everything I can to minimize this.

Honest question for more junior folks--any honest input you can give those of us that are more senior re: helping us to make it clear to folks that our "lines are open" in the same way that our "doors are open"? Anything we can do to help replicate the muted line element of things? (I know that for first and second years you might not even really know what that added at this point, but I swear it's where I learned 75% of what made me successful.)

[Anonymous User]

There are a ton of benefits to being in office with colleagues, especially when it comes to developing juniors.

With that said, as a mid/senior who already has relationships, all of the non billable hours and lost flexibility entailed in returning to office more than like a day every week or two does not outweigh the benefits of RTO for me personally.

Both things can be true.

I agree with most of this. The trickiest part is that those first and second years who most benefit from RTO need the more senior people to be there in order to gain most of those benefits. I have a little guilt about gaining skills and learning from mentors as a junior and now putting the next wave of juniors in far more difficult circumstances to learn when I am refusing to go in. But only a little guilt.

There may be a learning curve but efficiently teaching juniors remotely seems like a very solvable problem. Even in the immediate short term, track changes and calls to discuss go a long way. The camaraderie building with other juniors is probably the hardest to replicate in a remote world though.

Maybe law firms need to take a page from Zoomers and setup discord voice channels.

[Anonymous User]

Just sharted. Thankfully I am at home

Mod Note: User WilliamFaulkner outed for anon abuse.