What Would You Do? Employment Discrimination Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi all,

First off, I know none of this constitutes legal advice, etc., but I’d like some outside perspectives as well as advice on what to do here.

My wife just found out that she makes ~25% less that her male co-worker did when he was her level of seniority, and they have the same job responsibilities and the exact same credentials (same undergrad, masters program, etc.); he now makes 50% more than she does, but has 3 more years of WE, so to me that’s not as applicable.

I’m sure I’m (unintentionally) omitting some material details, but does she have a claim here? Any advice on what she should do? I’m not an employment lawyer so wayy out of my depth here

[Lacepiece23]

I’m a plaintiffs employment lawyer. This is potentially an EPA violation. You can dm me for a consultation if you’d like.

[Anonymous User]

Does she want to sue, or just make the amount she deserves?

I have two great male bosses, but it took me pointing out to them that I made less than my (also male) predecessor did after years in my job, not even accounting for inflation. They rectified the situation as soon as possible. Unconscious bias is real. Not saying her situation is the same, or that she necessarily has a decent boss to discuss this with.

[objctnyrhnr]

Just tell them. Not every thing has to be a whole thing.

Gauge how they react to this before dealing with lawyers and all that jazz.

I say this as a biglaw civil defense litigator, so I theoretically have a vested interest in people doing the opposite of what I propose here.

[Lacepiece23]

Just tell them. Not every thing has to be a whole thing.

Gauge how they react to this before dealing with lawyers and all that jazz.

I say this as a biglaw civil defense litigator, so I theoretically have a vested interest in people doing the opposite of what I propose here.

As someone who does this everyday for a living, this could be the correct advice. But I wouldn’t take the advice in a vacuum as it is much more nuanced than just tell them.

I have employees come to me every day telling me how they were retaliated against after doing something like what you propose.

[Anonymous User]

Not legal advice, not my specialty, etc.

Whatever she chooses to do, make sure it's well documented. If it were me, I would raise this issue first in an email to make sure it's clear when the issue was raised and to whom. It would suck if your wife raised the issue in person to her boss and her boss's first response was to contact HR first about your wife's "poor performance" or something like that.

On that topic, has your wife considered talking to HR first? They'll probably have a better understanding of the relevant law than your wife's boss will, and they may be more interested in resolving things without ugly litigation. Plus, if she starts there, your wife may not have to raise the issue directly with her boss and risk retaliation. Wouldn't an ideal situation be for HR to tell your wife's boss that their review of salary info indicated some discrepancies that need to be resolved without ever mentioning your wife's complaint?

That said, I know HR has lots of mandatory reporting requirements for various things - not sure if this falls into one of those categories. An employment lawyer would know what might be triggered if your wife talks to HR, her boss, etc.

[Anonymous User]

OP a here - Thanks for all the responses here everyone, really appreciated.

Honestly she’s pretty dejected/furious and just wants to quit and figure something out afterwards - might this impact her claim or anything else we should keep in mind? Again I know not legal advice etc.

[LittleRedCorvette]

OP a here - Thanks for all the responses here everyone, really appreciated.

Honestly she’s pretty dejected/furious and just wants to quit and figure something out afterwards - might this impact her claim or anything else we should keep in mind? Again I know not legal advice etc.

Is it possible she is just a worse performer?

[pkeller]

OP, more INFO needed--just to make sure I'm understanding correctly, when the male coworker had this position, it was in the past, correct? So theoretically she should be making even more than he did based on inflation/COL adjustment alone.

I think it was implied in the original post that he held the position before she did, but I'm running on little sleep.

[pkeller]

OP a here - Thanks for all the responses here everyone, really appreciated.

Honestly she’s pretty dejected/furious and just wants to quit and figure something out afterwards - might this impact her claim or anything else we should keep in mind? Again I know not legal advice etc.

Can she take a mental health day? Or get "sick" for a few days? Does she have enough PTO to do that? I'd honestly need at least a short break and be in a terrible, no good, very bad mood.

[Anonymous User]

OP a here - Thanks for all the responses here everyone, really appreciated.

Honestly she’s pretty dejected/furious and just wants to quit and figure something out afterwards - might this impact her claim or anything else we should keep in mind? Again I know not legal advice etc.

Can she take a mental health day? Or get "sick" for a few days? Does she have enough PTO to do that? I'd honestly need at least a short break and be in a terrible, no good, very bad mood.

Again, not legal advice, not an expert, etc.

Thinking purely form a jury/theme point of view, wouldn't it look pretty terrible to just leave and sue? If this does go to trial, the jury may not look kindly on someone who chose to go straight to court rather than ask about it. If I were defense counsel, I would say something like "She couldn't cut it (as reflected by her low salary) and then quit out of the blue. Now that she's gone, she has the nerve to shake her former employer down for money, when she never complained about compensation when she worked there." Not to mention, if she tries to handle this on the DL then she could presumably get a salary bump, then use that to negotiate an even higher salary elsewhere when she inevitably leaves this toxic workplace.

Also curious - is this an entry level position? If both your wife and this male co-worker got offered vastly different salaries right out of school, I would think that would be a bad look for the employer.

[Anonymous User]

OP here-

To clarify, male colleague has held the same role, just been there longer - basically imagine he’s a sixth year and she’s a third year- when HE was a third year (I.e., 3 years ago) he was STILL making 30% more than she does now (so inflation is going the wrong way). He makes almost double what she does now, but I acknowledge there’s a discrepancy in seniority at play.

She just got a job offer which she’s now considering much more heavily, and just wondering if there’s some impact here if she leaves. Honestly the new job pays much more, but this is more about the disrespect and the feeling that they took advantage of her for all these years.

Lastly, I know both her and her colleague well; she’s not an under-performer

[legalpotato]

OP a here - Thanks for all the responses here everyone, really appreciated.

Honestly she’s pretty dejected/furious and just wants to quit and figure something out afterwards - might this impact her claim or anything else we should keep in mind? Again I know not legal advice etc.

Is it possible she is just a worse performer?

Reported for wrongthink.

[Anonymous User]

is your wife in biglaw or is this...like regular job land?

[Anonymous User]

OP, more INFO needed--just to make sure I'm understanding correctly, when the male coworker had this position, it was in the past, correct? So theoretically she should be making even more than he did based on inflation/COL adjustment alone.

I think it was implied in the original post that he held the position before she did, but I'm running on little sleep.

OP here, yes that’s correct - I tried to clarify this in a subsequent post. And no, she’s not in biglaw, just used the “sixth year” terminology for clarity

[Anonymous User]

I'm missing the hook for this to be a discrimination claim. It's not illegal to pay one employee less than another, even if they are different sexes, and right now n=2 which is extremely weak.

Do all women at this employer earn less than their male counterparts? Did someone with authority say or insinuate that this was sex related? Does the employer generally exhibit a sexist pattern of behavior? If you want to make a claim, you need to think about these questions, because they will ultimately determine how strong your claim is.

[pkeller]

OP here-

To clarify, male colleague has held the same role, just been there longer - basically imagine he’s a sixth year and she’s a third year- when HE was a third year (I.e., 3 years ago) he was STILL making 30% more than she does now (so inflation is going the wrong way). He makes almost double what she does now, but I acknowledge there’s a discrepancy in seniority at play.

She just got a job offer which she’s now considering much more heavily, and just wondering if there’s some impact here if she leaves. Honestly the new job pays much more, but this is more about the disrespect and the feeling that they took advantage of her for all these years.

Lastly, I know both her and her colleague well; she’s not an under-performer

I'm going to completely dodge the "should she sue" part of this...I would certainly want to just take the new job, run, and be done with it--sounds like she's just emotionally done. Would have to weigh IF the potential pay off would be bigger than the salary increase. But another thing to think about too--often times, when we sue, we want emotional justice, which we don't always get from a lawsuit.

And I just said I'd dodge the question. Like lots of things, no clear yes/no. "It depends."

[Anonymous User]

OP here-

To clarify, male colleague has held the same role, just been there longer - basically imagine he’s a sixth year and she’s a third year- when HE was a third year (I.e., 3 years ago) he was STILL making 30% more than she does now (so inflation is going the wrong way). He makes almost double what she does now, but I acknowledge there’s a discrepancy in seniority at play.

She just got a job offer which she’s now considering much more heavily, and just wondering if there’s some impact here if she leaves. Honestly the new job pays much more, but this is more about the disrespect and the feeling that they took advantage of her for all these years.

Lastly, I know both her and her colleague well; she’s not an under-performer

I'm going to completely dodge the "should she sue" part of this...I would certainly want to just take the new job, run, and be done with it--sounds like she's just emotionally done. Would have to weigh IF the potential pay off would be bigger than the salary increase. But another thing to think about too--often times, when we sue, we want emotional justice, which we don't always get from a lawsuit.

And I just said I'd dodge the question. Like lots of things, no clear yes/no. "It depends."

I think the advice to get a new job and forget about this is generally right. My view, as a litigator, has always been that the right strategy is to send a letter and negotiate a quick settlement before anything needs to be filed. I say that as a person who has defended these sorts of cases, both settling and going to trial. If you're in a position to just move on to a new job (and admittedly not everybody is), then just take what you can get and then turn the page.

[CanadianWolf]

Consult with an attorney experienced in employment law.

[1styearlateral]

I'm missing the hook for this to be a discrimination claim. It's not illegal to pay one employee less than another, even if they are different sexes, and right now n=2 which is extremely weak.

Do all women at this employer earn less than their male counterparts? Did someone with authority say or insinuate that this was sex related? Does the employer generally exhibit a sexist pattern of behavior? If you want to make a claim, you need to think about these questions, because they will ultimately determine how strong your claim is.

I'm not an employment lawyer, but these questions seem highly relevant to me.

Pay discrepancy in OP's scenario could be affected by various external factors that are NOT gender related. For example, if the company was doing financially well during the time the colleague was offered the position, the starting salary (and subsequent raises) may have been higher. If OP's wife was offered the role during a downturn in the economy or the company's financial trajectory, a lower salary might have been more acceptable. Just because the company's finances bounce back doesn't mean leadership needs to adjust compensation to match those during good times.

[Anonymous User]

Please seek out and discuss this issue with a plaintiff-side employment lawyer and don't accept legal advice from random people on this forum.

[pkeller]

Please seek out and discuss this issue with a plaintiff-side employment lawyer and don't accept legal advice from random people on this forum.

Like the obligatory "IANAL" on Reddit, except...most of us are.

[Anonymous User]

I used to be a plaintiff-side employment lawyer, and while the basics you've laid out here make it sound actionable, she should really consider whether this is something worth pursuing.

To decide that, think, first, about what the pay difference is over the statutory period, and second, about whether it's worth burning bridges over, given that she already has something better lined up, and how little non-monetary satisfaction she may get out of the whole thing - because, you know, best case scenario generally involves sending a demand letter, and then either straight up negotiating or hiring a mediator to help negotiate a pre-suit settlement, and if all goes well, she'll get some fraction of the total amount of damages from that result, but former employer will not be happy, and this process often doesn't give the plaintiff the satisfaction of having "their day in court," even when we take that expression not literally.

None of that is to say that it isn't worth consulting with an employment lawyer, but I do feel that, despite having been one - or perhaps, precisely because I used to do this for a living - that for a good number of people, it's not worth the trouble.