Boston Biglaw Forum

[Flarmanarnar]

I'm thinking of moving from New York to Boston (family ties/grew up there), and was wondering if anyone has made the jump from NY to BOS and could speak to the differences in the legal markets/culture. Additionally, 1) was it hard to make the switch and 2) is it hard to live in the burbs and commute into Boston? I've been in NY for a while, but am nervous about making the switch and would love some perspective.

[Anonymous User]

I'm thinking of moving from New York to Boston (family ties/grew up there), and was wondering if anyone has made the jump from NY to BOS and could speak to the differences in the legal markets/culture. Additionally, 1) was it hard to make the switch and 2) is it hard to live in the burbs and commute into Boston? I've been in NY for a while, but am nervous about making the switch and would love some perspective.

What do you mean by hard to live/commute from the burbs? I'm a Boston native, and I don't think it's any harder to live out in the burbs, especially with shifting perspectives toward WFH. My commute on the commuter rail is about an hour (plus the drive to the stop and walk to the office), but I'm able to find a seat and get something substantive done on my way in and out the 2-3x a week I come in. I'd prefer that to an awkward 20 minutes where you can't really do much aside from read emails on your phone. That said, I'm probably in the minority.

For reference, I'm at one of the big firms in Boston (Ropes, WilmerHale, Goodwin, Choate), and I find most partners live in the burbs closer to the city than me (Wellesley, Newton, etc.) while most associates live in the city.

[Anonymous User]

I lateraled from NYC to the one of Boston's major players last year and found it to be a fairly easy lift. This is from a LevFi perspective, and I can't discern any distinction at all in terms of clients, culture, quality of work, hours, etc. For better or worse.

My commute to the office is 30 minutes but I hate it. Want to stay remote, definitely wouldn't move out of the city and deal with 1+ hour. But that's what you are looking at unless you do the near suburbs, Cambridge, etc. Seaport is a nice option to live for those working at firms in the financial district or in Seaport itself, like Goodwin.

[Anonymous User]

You’re probably moving at the wrong time if you’re trying to live in the suburbs. Housing prices are at an all-time high. A 3 bed/2 bath near the commuter rail in a town with a good school district will probably be near $1m now. Even farther out, a good town will probably have houses for $700-800k for the same type of house. Obviously cheap compared to city living (and many parts of NY), but people do get sticker shock when they move here.

What’s your budget? A studio in seaport will probably be the best place for a younger associate with no kids (~$3000). If you have a family and need 2 beds, maybe farther out like JP, Somerville or something could work. That will probably be in the $4000 range.

Didn’t work in NY, but a lot of my deals when I was at one of the bigger firms (Ropes/Goodwin/Wilmer) was with our NY office. So probably no difference between NY/Boston in terms of work.

[Flarmanarnar]

I'm thinking of moving from New York to Boston (family ties/grew up there), and was wondering if anyone has made the jump from NY to BOS and could speak to the differences in the legal markets/culture. Additionally, 1) was it hard to make the switch and 2) is it hard to live in the burbs and commute into Boston? I've been in NY for a while, but am nervous about making the switch and would love some perspective.

What do you mean by hard to live/commute from the burbs? I'm a Boston native, and I don't think it's any harder to live out in the burbs, especially with shifting perspectives toward WFH. My commute on the commuter rail is about an hour (plus the drive to the stop and walk to the office), but I'm able to find a seat and get something substantive done on my way in and out the 2-3x a week I come in. I'd prefer that to an awkward 20 minutes where you can't really do much aside from read emails on your phone. That said, I'm probably in the minority.

For reference, I'm at one of the big firms in Boston (Ropes, WilmerHale, Goodwin, Choate), and I find most partners live in the burbs closer to the city than me (Wellesley, Newton, etc.) while most associates live in the city.

Thanks for the response. I just meant is it hard to leave the office at night to catch the train out to the suburbs/what is work-life balance with the commute? I now where I would live if I moved back (near Needham), and I can't imagine doing that commute with my current hours at my NY firm.

[Flarmanarnar]

You’re probably moving at the wrong time if you’re trying to live in the suburbs. Housing prices are at an all-time high. A 3 bed/2 bath near the commuter rail in a town with a good school district will probably be near $1m now. Even farther out, a good town will probably have houses for $700-800k for the same type of house. Obviously cheap compared to city living (and many parts of NY), but people do get sticker shock when they move here.

What’s your budget? A studio in seaport will probably be the best place for a younger associate with no kids (~$3000). If you have a family and need 2 beds, maybe farther out like JP, Somerville or something could work. That will probably be in the $4000 range.

Didn’t work in NY, but a lot of my deals when I was at one of the bigger firms (Ropes/Goodwin/Wilmer) was with our NY office. So probably no difference between NY/Boston in terms of work.

I totally agree - now is not the time to buy (prices are insane), but luckily (or maybe not so lucky?) I would be taking over a property from a family member who can no longer live alone. If the commute is from around Needham, do you think that's reasonable (around 45 min each way I believe) given the hours you work?/Do you have colleagues that live out that far?

[Anonymous User]

You’re probably moving at the wrong time if you’re trying to live in the suburbs. Housing prices are at an all-time high. A 3 bed/2 bath near the commuter rail in a town with a good school district will probably be near $1m now. Even farther out, a good town will probably have houses for $700-800k for the same type of house. Obviously cheap compared to city living (and many parts of NY), but people do get sticker shock when they move here.

What’s your budget? A studio in seaport will probably be the best place for a younger associate with no kids (~$3000). If you have a family and need 2 beds, maybe farther out like JP, Somerville or something could work. That will probably be in the $4000 range.

Didn’t work in NY, but a lot of my deals when I was at one of the bigger firms (Ropes/Goodwin/Wilmer) was with our NY office. So probably no difference between NY/Boston in terms of work.

I totally agree - now is not the time to buy (prices are insane), but luckily (or maybe not so lucky?) I would be taking over a property from a family member who can no longer live alone. If the commute is from around Needham, do you think that's reasonable (around 45 min each way I believe) given the hours you work?/Do you have colleagues that live out that far?

I know people in Dedham, and they come in twice a week or so. Are you only interested in biglaw? There are some midsize firms out in Waltham (you could drive there in like 20 min from needham) that do good work.

[Flarmanarnar]

You’re probably moving at the wrong time if you’re trying to live in the suburbs. Housing prices are at an all-time high. A 3 bed/2 bath near the commuter rail in a town with a good school district will probably be near $1m now. Even farther out, a good town will probably have houses for $700-800k for the same type of house. Obviously cheap compared to city living (and many parts of NY), but people do get sticker shock when they move here.

What’s your budget? A studio in seaport will probably be the best place for a younger associate with no kids (~$3000). If you have a family and need 2 beds, maybe farther out like JP, Somerville or something could work. That will probably be in the $4000 range.

Didn’t work in NY, but a lot of my deals when I was at one of the bigger firms (Ropes/Goodwin/Wilmer) was with our NY office. So probably no difference between NY/Boston in terms of work.

I totally agree - now is not the time to buy (prices are insane), but luckily (or maybe not so lucky?) I would be taking over a property from a family member who can no longer live alone. If the commute is from around Needham, do you think that's reasonable (around 45 min each way I believe) given the hours you work?/Do you have colleagues that live out that far?

I know people in Dedham, and they come in twice a week or so. Are you only interested in biglaw? There are some midsize firms out in Waltham (you could drive there in like 20 min from needham) that do good work.

By nature of my niche corporate practice group, I am confined to biglaw (or I suppose in-house if I had more experience - not many in-house in my position in my field until you hit around 7+ years).

[Anonymous User]

You’re probably moving at the wrong time if you’re trying to live in the suburbs. Housing prices are at an all-time high. A 3 bed/2 bath near the commuter rail in a town with a good school district will probably be near $1m now. Even farther out, a good town will probably have houses for $700-800k for the same type of house. Obviously cheap compared to city living (and many parts of NY), but people do get sticker shock when they move here.

What’s your budget? A studio in seaport will probably be the best place for a younger associate with no kids (~$3000). If you have a family and need 2 beds, maybe farther out like JP, Somerville or something could work. That will probably be in the $4000 range.

Didn’t work in NY, but a lot of my deals when I was at one of the bigger firms (Ropes/Goodwin/Wilmer) was with our NY office. So probably no difference between NY/Boston in terms of work.

I totally agree - now is not the time to buy (prices are insane), but luckily (or maybe not so lucky?) I would be taking over a property from a family member who can no longer live alone. If the commute is from around Needham, do you think that's reasonable (around 45 min each way I believe) given the hours you work?/Do you have colleagues that live out that far?

I know people in Dedham, and they come in twice a week or so. Are you only interested in biglaw? There are some midsize firms out in Waltham (you could drive there in like 20 min from needham) that do good work.

By nature of my niche corporate practice group, I am confined to biglaw (or I suppose in-house if I had more experience - not many in-house in my position in my field until you hit around 7+ years).

I see. Morse has most corporate practices, though, if you want to have like 1500 billable hours (or maybe 1600).

But, back to your question, I think the commute is better from some places. Mintz, Proskauer, Choate (South Station); and Kirkland, Cooley, Ropes (Back Bay Station) are all near the commuter rail. Wilmer and Goodwin are not, so it’ll add at least 10 more minutes to your commute if you work at either. There are other firms near those stations, but just wanted to list the bigger offices. However, if you’re in a niche corporate group, you shouldn’t let the extra 10 minutes deter you. I’d still drive from Needham (30ish min drive), though. Monthly parking is like $400-600/month.

[TUwave]

You’re probably moving at the wrong time if you’re trying to live in the suburbs. Housing prices are at an all-time high. A 3 bed/2 bath near the commuter rail in a town with a good school district will probably be near $1m now. Even farther out, a good town will probably have houses for $700-800k for the same type of house. Obviously cheap compared to city living (and many parts of NY), but people do get sticker shock when they move here.

What’s your budget? A studio in seaport will probably be the best place for a younger associate with no kids (~$3000). If you have a family and need 2 beds, maybe farther out like JP, Somerville or something could work. That will probably be in the $4000 range.

Didn’t work in NY, but a lot of my deals when I was at one of the bigger firms (Ropes/Goodwin/Wilmer) was with our NY office. So probably no difference between NY/Boston in terms of work.

I totally agree - now is not the time to buy (prices are insane), but luckily (or maybe not so lucky?) I would be taking over a property from a family member who can no longer live alone. If the commute is from around Needham, do you think that's reasonable (around 45 min each way I believe) given the hours you work?/Do you have colleagues that live out that far?

I know people in Dedham, and they come in twice a week or so. Are you only interested in biglaw? There are some midsize firms out in Waltham (you could drive there in like 20 min from needham) that do good work.

By nature of my niche corporate practice group, I am confined to biglaw (or I suppose in-house if I had more experience - not many in-house in my position in my field until you hit around 7+ years).

I see. Morse has most corporate practices, though, if you want to have like 1500 billable hours (or maybe 1600).

But, back to your question, I think the commute is better from some places. Mintz, Proskauer, Choate (South Station); and Kirkland, Cooley, Ropes (Back Bay Station) are all near the commuter rail. Wilmer and Goodwin are not, so it’ll add at least 10 more minutes to your commute if you work at either. There are other firms near those stations, but just wanted to list the bigger offices. However, if you’re in a niche corporate group, you shouldn’t let the extra 10 minutes deter you. I’d still drive from Needham (30ish min drive), though. Monthly parking is like $400-600/month.

Or just stay till 7pm and bill it to a client. I’ve actually enjoyed the drive into Boston recently, it’s a nice break in the day.

[Anonymous User]

I'm thinking of moving from New York to Boston (family ties/grew up there), and was wondering if anyone has made the jump from NY to BOS and could speak to the differences in the legal markets/culture. Additionally, 1) was it hard to make the switch and 2) is it hard to live in the burbs and commute into Boston? I've been in NY for a while, but am nervous about making the switch and would love some perspective.

What do you mean by hard to live/commute from the burbs? I'm a Boston native, and I don't think it's any harder to live out in the burbs, especially with shifting perspectives toward WFH. My commute on the commuter rail is about an hour (plus the drive to the stop and walk to the office), but I'm able to find a seat and get something substantive done on my way in and out the 2-3x a week I come in. I'd prefer that to an awkward 20 minutes where you can't really do much aside from read emails on your phone. That said, I'm probably in the minority.

For reference, I'm at one of the big firms in Boston (Ropes, WilmerHale, Goodwin, Choate), and I find most partners live in the burbs closer to the city than me (Wellesley, Newton, etc.) while most associates live in the city.

Thanks for the response. I just meant is it hard to leave the office at night to catch the train out to the suburbs/what is work-life balance with the commute? I now where I would live if I moved back (near Needham), and I can't imagine doing that commute with my current hours at my NY firm.

I’m pulling 2500+ hours with a 1+ hour commute each way. Need ham isn’t even that bad of a commute (and it’s the end of the line so you’ll always get a seat). If anything, living outside of the city has helped me to disconnect more from work. This job is like gas and will fill any space you give it, so anything that stops you from staying later (like having to make your train) might even help.

I can’t speak to all firms but I think you’re less likely to get the nightmare hours like you do in NYC. Obviously it happens (I billed 3k hours a couple years ago), but it’s probably more by choice for hard workers than necessity. That said, I’ve heard Ropes can be a total sweat shop even if you want try to coast in at their expected 1900 or whatever it is now.

[Anonymous User]

I'm thinking of moving from New York to Boston (family ties/grew up there), and was wondering if anyone has made the jump from NY to BOS and could speak to the differences in the legal markets/culture. Additionally, 1) was it hard to make the switch and 2) is it hard to live in the burbs and commute into Boston? I've been in NY for a while, but am nervous about making the switch and would love some perspective.

What do you mean by hard to live/commute from the burbs? I'm a Boston native, and I don't think it's any harder to live out in the burbs, especially with shifting perspectives toward WFH. My commute on the commuter rail is about an hour (plus the drive to the stop and walk to the office), but I'm able to find a seat and get something substantive done on my way in and out the 2-3x a week I come in. I'd prefer that to an awkward 20 minutes where you can't really do much aside from read emails on your phone. That said, I'm probably in the minority.

For reference, I'm at one of the big firms in Boston (Ropes, WilmerHale, Goodwin, Choate), and I find most partners live in the burbs closer to the city than me (Wellesley, Newton, etc.) while most associates live in the city.

Thanks for the response. I just meant is it hard to leave the office at night to catch the train out to the suburbs/what is work-life balance with the commute? I now where I would live if I moved back (near Needham), and I can't imagine doing that commute with my current hours at my NY firm.

I’m pulling 2500+ hours with a 1+ hour commute each way. Need ham isn’t even that bad of a commute (and it’s the end of the line so you’ll always get a seat). If anything, living outside of the city has helped me to disconnect more from work. This job is like gas and will fill any space you give it, so anything that stops you from staying later (like having to make your train) might even help.

I can’t speak to all firms but I think you’re less likely to get the nightmare hours like you do in NYC. Obviously it happens (I billed 3k hours a couple years ago), but it’s probably more by choice for hard workers than necessity. That said, I’ve heard Ropes can be a total sweat shop even if you want try to coast in at their expected 1900 or whatever it is now.

I wouldn’t call 2500 a “choice for hard workers.” A lot of Goodwin associates had no choice but to bill that many hours last year because the firm was so busy.

Pre-pandemic, I do think the hours were more manageable in Boston (I know equity partners who never billed more than like 2100 hours as associates), but I think covid kind of ruined that a bit.

[Anonymous User]

I'm thinking of moving from New York to Boston (family ties/grew up there), and was wondering if anyone has made the jump from NY to BOS and could speak to the differences in the legal markets/culture. Additionally, 1) was it hard to make the switch and 2) is it hard to live in the burbs and commute into Boston? I've been in NY for a while, but am nervous about making the switch and would love some perspective.

What do you mean by hard to live/commute from the burbs? I'm a Boston native, and I don't think it's any harder to live out in the burbs, especially with shifting perspectives toward WFH. My commute on the commuter rail is about an hour (plus the drive to the stop and walk to the office), but I'm able to find a seat and get something substantive done on my way in and out the 2-3x a week I come in. I'd prefer that to an awkward 20 minutes where you can't really do much aside from read emails on your phone. That said, I'm probably in the minority.

For reference, I'm at one of the big firms in Boston (Ropes, WilmerHale, Goodwin, Choate), and I find most partners live in the burbs closer to the city than me (Wellesley, Newton, etc.) while most associates live in the city.

Thanks for the response. I just meant is it hard to leave the office at night to catch the train out to the suburbs/what is work-life balance with the commute? I now where I would live if I moved back (near Needham), and I can't imagine doing that commute with my current hours at my NY firm.

I’m pulling 2500+ hours with a 1+ hour commute each way. Need ham isn’t even that bad of a commute (and it’s the end of the line so you’ll always get a seat). If anything, living outside of the city has helped me to disconnect more from work. This job is like gas and will fill any space you give it, so anything that stops you from staying later (like having to make your train) might even help.

I can’t speak to all firms but I think you’re less likely to get the nightmare hours like you do in NYC. Obviously it happens (I billed 3k hours a couple years ago), but it’s probably more by choice for hard workers than necessity. That said, I’ve heard Ropes can be a total sweat shop even if you want try to coast in at their expected 1900 or whatever it is now.

I wouldn’t call 2500 a “choice for hard workers.” A lot of Goodwin associates had no choice but to bill that many hours last year because the firm was so busy.

Pre-pandemic, I do think the hours were more manageable in Boston (I know equity partners who never billed more than like 2100 hours as associates), but I think covid kind of ruined that a bit.

Does anyone know which Boston BigLaw firms are known as sweatshops, or does it depend on practice group per firm? Specifically interested in Goodwin, Ropes and Skadden for corporate/transactional groups.

[Anonymous User]

I'm thinking of moving from New York to Boston (family ties/grew up there), and was wondering if anyone has made the jump from NY to BOS and could speak to the differences in the legal markets/culture. Additionally, 1) was it hard to make the switch and 2) is it hard to live in the burbs and commute into Boston? I've been in NY for a while, but am nervous about making the switch and would love some perspective.

What do you mean by hard to live/commute from the burbs? I'm a Boston native, and I don't think it's any harder to live out in the burbs, especially with shifting perspectives toward WFH. My commute on the commuter rail is about an hour (plus the drive to the stop and walk to the office), but I'm able to find a seat and get something substantive done on my way in and out the 2-3x a week I come in. I'd prefer that to an awkward 20 minutes where you can't really do much aside from read emails on your phone. That said, I'm probably in the minority.

For reference, I'm at one of the big firms in Boston (Ropes, WilmerHale, Goodwin, Choate), and I find most partners live in the burbs closer to the city than me (Wellesley, Newton, etc.) while most associates live in the city.

Thanks for the response. I just meant is it hard to leave the office at night to catch the train out to the suburbs/what is work-life balance with the commute? I now where I would live if I moved back (near Needham), and I can't imagine doing that commute with my current hours at my NY firm.

I’m pulling 2500+ hours with a 1+ hour commute each way. Need ham isn’t even that bad of a commute (and it’s the end of the line so you’ll always get a seat). If anything, living outside of the city has helped me to disconnect more from work. This job is like gas and will fill any space you give it, so anything that stops you from staying later (like having to make your train) might even help.

I can’t speak to all firms but I think you’re less likely to get the nightmare hours like you do in NYC. Obviously it happens (I billed 3k hours a couple years ago), but it’s probably more by choice for hard workers than necessity. That said, I’ve heard Ropes can be a total sweat shop even if you want try to coast in at their expected 1900 or whatever it is now.

I wouldn’t call 2500 a “choice for hard workers.” A lot of Goodwin associates had no choice but to bill that many hours last year because the firm was so busy.

Pre-pandemic, I do think the hours were more manageable in Boston (I know equity partners who never billed more than like 2100 hours as associates), but I think covid kind of ruined that a bit.

Does anyone know which Boston BigLaw firms are known as sweatshops, or does it depend on practice group per firm? Specifically interested in Goodwin, Ropes and Skadden for corporate/transactional groups.

Ropes definitely has that reputation, though it may just be because they are the biggest corporate shop in the city. Common nickname is "Ropes & Chains."

[Anonymous User]

I'm thinking of moving from New York to Boston (family ties/grew up there), and was wondering if anyone has made the jump from NY to BOS and could speak to the differences in the legal markets/culture. Additionally, 1) was it hard to make the switch and 2) is it hard to live in the burbs and commute into Boston? I've been in NY for a while, but am nervous about making the switch and would love some perspective.

What do you mean by hard to live/commute from the burbs? I'm a Boston native, and I don't think it's any harder to live out in the burbs, especially with shifting perspectives toward WFH. My commute on the commuter rail is about an hour (plus the drive to the stop and walk to the office), but I'm able to find a seat and get something substantive done on my way in and out the 2-3x a week I come in. I'd prefer that to an awkward 20 minutes where you can't really do much aside from read emails on your phone. That said, I'm probably in the minority.

For reference, I'm at one of the big firms in Boston (Ropes, WilmerHale, Goodwin, Choate), and I find most partners live in the burbs closer to the city than me (Wellesley, Newton, etc.) while most associates live in the city.

Thanks for the response. I just meant is it hard to leave the office at night to catch the train out to the suburbs/what is work-life balance with the commute? I now where I would live if I moved back (near Needham), and I can't imagine doing that commute with my current hours at my NY firm.

I’m pulling 2500+ hours with a 1+ hour commute each way. Need ham isn’t even that bad of a commute (and it’s the end of the line so you’ll always get a seat). If anything, living outside of the city has helped me to disconnect more from work. This job is like gas and will fill any space you give it, so anything that stops you from staying later (like having to make your train) might even help.

I can’t speak to all firms but I think you’re less likely to get the nightmare hours like you do in NYC. Obviously it happens (I billed 3k hours a couple years ago), but it’s probably more by choice for hard workers than necessity. That said, I’ve heard Ropes can be a total sweat shop even if you want try to coast in at their expected 1900 or whatever it is now.

I wouldn’t call 2500 a “choice for hard workers.” A lot of Goodwin associates had no choice but to bill that many hours last year because the firm was so busy.

Pre-pandemic, I do think the hours were more manageable in Boston (I know equity partners who never billed more than like 2100 hours as associates), but I think covid kind of ruined that a bit.

Does anyone know which Boston BigLaw firms are known as sweatshops, or does it depend on practice group per firm? Specifically interested in Goodwin, Ropes and Skadden for corporate/transactional groups.

Ropes definitely has that reputation, though it may just be because they are the biggest corporate shop in the city. Common nickname is "Ropes & Chains."

Not sure how it affects your decision, but it’s also worth mentioning that Skadden’s Boston office is on the small side (~40 attorneys last I checked). Will be a very different vibe than Ropes and Goodwin.

[Anonymous User]

Anecdotally, my sense is that the sweet spot in boston are some of these newer vault 30ish shops, such as orrick, mofo, Dla piper, Wilson, there are others.

I think there will be less of a feeling of intensity, stress, etc. at a smaller office/in a smaller group. And if it’s a market firm, not like you’re sacrificing any comp.