How do you unlearn toxic biglaw work habits when going in-house? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm a senior associate planning to go in-house at a FAANG soon. For the last ~6 years I have been the model biglaw associate (read: I have up to this point completely resigned myself to having no life outside of work. I have been 100% available at all times, taken barely any vacation, been the go-to associate for fire drills/nightmare projects, done multiple 2500 billable years, etc. -- generally just the most spineless associate you could imagine, because I was always afraid of getting fired with no financial safety net).

Now that I've got some financial security after this many years in biglaw, I want to try to not be that person once I go in-house at the FAANG. However, I'm concerned that it's going to be hard to shake what are now pretty well-ingrained habits. How do in-house people with a healthy approach to WLB make this work (ideally while maintaining prospects for advancement, getting good experience, not getting fired, etc.)?

Are there any advice/practical rules/tips anybody has for replacing toxic biglaw work habits?

[trebekismyhero]

I just got used to not worrying about checking my phone every 5 minutes like I did in big law. You will likely get a second work phone instead of work email on your personal phone. After you get a vibe of the work flow, put your work phone away for a while at night and just check it a couple times in case there is something crazy. Don't feel like you need to turn everything immediately, ask the person who assigned you the work for a timeline. It almost always is not an emergency.

[jhett]

Block out time on your calendar for your personal tasks. For example, need to pick up kids at a particular time certain days of the week? Make a recurring block on your calendar. Want to have a relaxing lunch one day? Block out that time. You don't need to give any explanation for those times - just say you are not available for meetings.

[Anonymous User]

Just wanna say that both pieces of advice above are good for biglaw associates as well, not just in-house attorneys.

[Anonymous User]

This is a timely question and I think the first two comments are on point - still big law but looking to go in house, about the same timeline as you. Just had my first big vacation in 3 years over to Europe and was up early each day and late each night to do work because "no one else was available or knows and can help". Even though work and the client knew I was heading here weeks in advance (out of office message be damned). After this I'm committed to leaving, just waiting for some callbacks and in the meantime plan to do the bare minimum to not look like I'm halfway out the door - while still collecting that paycheck.

[Anonymous User]

I also think it helps when everyone around you is treating work a certain way. I work in government and have seen biglaw people show up expecting to work late in the evenings and such, but they soon get over that when they realize literally no one is in the office after 6. It won’t really matter that you’re 100% available and ready to work all hours and be responsive 24/7 if no one else is working evenings/weekends, so not trying to contact you then and not expecting you to be available then; when there just aren’t fire drills and nightmare projects, it won’t matter that you were the go-to associate for such things. And when you see people actually being out on vacation, it makes clear that you can do that too.

So I think that what you call spinelessness was really a response to the circumstances you were in, and when you’re in different circumstances you’ll be able to respond differently.

[Anonymous User]

As others have indicated, I'd put blocks in your calendar for personal stuff. I already do this whilst in Biglaw actually, as I sometimes want to go to the gym during the day. Also, put your work phone away during the night. Again, I already do this in Biglaw, unless I know there is something urgent happening.

These are actually all tips for anyone in Biglaw as well: it will hurt you as much as you let it. If you're that worried about being financially safe, you probably either need to sit down and realize your workplace is toxic (if you're actually worried you're getting fired); sit down and look at your finances and realize you'll be fine (especially after many years of biglaw); and/or put a stop to your crazy expenses which lead you to not be financially comfortable after multiple years of 200-300k a year.

[attorney589753]

In all likelihood the same work habits that made you successful in BigLaw are going to translate over to your new job. If you have high degree of work ethic and ownership then I doubt you're going to shut off the phone at 5pm every night. The flip side is that I think you are underrating how important the social context and environment is for setting work habits. At most in-house places you are going to notice that 90% of people are offline at a reasonable time. It may be socially unacceptable to ask anyone (except higher ranking manager-types) to work nights/weekends/vacations. Unless you are working with people coming from law/consulting/banking, a normal person's conception of "working hard" is probably not on your level — so you'll still look pretty dedicated even if you ease off a bit.

In other words, I think you're overthinking it and you'll be fine.

In terms of specific tactics, I think it's mostly obvious stuff like what has been mentioned already. Also, pick the projects/tasks where you need to stretch (work nights) but have them be the exception. Remember that you took the in-house job, and being paid less, in part because of the hours — if you were going to work all nights then might as well have stayed at the firm.

[Saami]

I work in government and have seen biglaw people show up expecting to work late in the evenings and such, but they soon get over that when they realize literally no one is in the office after 6.

A bit off-topic, but when I was a DOJ paralegal I always hated when a biglaw attorney would join our team, because it'd take them months to realize that people legitimately only work 9 to 5 there (unless there was good reason otherwise), and if I got assigned to work with them on a project, I knew I'd be expected by them to work late hours and weekends. Biglaw attorneys should be required to take a week-long orientation on how to chill out before working for the government.

[Anonymous User]

I work in government and have seen biglaw people show up expecting to work late in the evenings and such, but they soon get over that when they realize literally no one is in the office after 6.

A bit off-topic, but when I was a DOJ paralegal I always hated when a biglaw attorney would join our team, because it'd take them months to realize that people legitimately only work 9 to 5 there (unless there was good reason otherwise), and if I got assigned to work with them on a project, I knew I'd be expected by them to work late hours and weekends. Biglaw attorneys should be required to take a week-long orientation on how to chill out before working for the government.

"hi Bob, this is your wife. Part of the requirements for the job are that you eat dinner with wife every day."

[clarion]

I’ll co-sign that’s it’s important just to get a feel for how things are. A lot of the more specific comments ITT assume that your new FAANG gig won’t have a ton of big law expats who expect a new hire (or anyone) to be accessible and available at all times. I can think of at least one FAANG company where I’ve heard that’s not always the case depending on the group you’re in.

So yeah, hopefully you’ll get to be the one everyone has described (offline by 5pm, no weekend work, etc). I also wouldn’t ask a paralegal to work overnight/over the weekend on something if you’ve never heard of anyone else at your company doing the same. But for now, just take in the culture and feel it out.

Good luck!

[basketofbread]

I work in government and have seen biglaw people show up expecting to work late in the evenings and such, but they soon get over that when they realize literally no one is in the office after 6.

A bit off-topic, but when I was a DOJ paralegal I always hated when a biglaw attorney would join our team, because it'd take them months to realize that people legitimately only work 9 to 5 there (unless there was good reason otherwise), and if I got assigned to work with them on a project, I knew I'd be expected by them to work late hours and weekends. Biglaw attorneys should be required to take a week-long orientation on how to chill out before working for the government.

That’s so funny. When I leave big law for government I am 100% going in with the expectation to work like a normal human being. Otherwise why would you take the job?

[nealric]

Different cultures are different, so you need to "read the room." There probably are some hard charging ones were the below doesn't apply, but I will speak from my own experience.

One thing that biglaw attorneys often need to adjust for in-house is that you won't be rewarded for just working a lot of hours. In fact at some companies, if you work too many hours, it can often be perceived as a problem. Few people are going to be impressed because you are the first one in and/or the last to leave the office, and are more likely to be annoyed than impressed by off-hours emails (unless there is an emergency or deadline crunch that truly necessitates them). People may ask why you are struggling to complete your work during normal business hours if you regularly work outside of them.

Responsiveness is still a net benefit, but don't be over eager to respond definitively to something. You probably won't get brownie points for responding in 15 minutes as opposed to same-day. In-house often requires consensus building on an issue in a way that biglaw doesn't, so the best response may be to just get folks together to discuss something rather than telling them a "solution".

Overall, in-house tends to reward quality over quantity. You aren't on the clock, and working hours doesn't translate into profits. The business units just want to feel like you are helping them rather than hindering or annoying them. However many hours it takes to deliver that is how many you need to work.

[Saami]

I work in government and have seen biglaw people show up expecting to work late in the evenings and such, but they soon get over that when they realize literally no one is in the office after 6.

A bit off-topic, but when I was a DOJ paralegal I always hated when a biglaw attorney would join our team, because it'd take them months to realize that people legitimately only work 9 to 5 there (unless there was good reason otherwise), and if I got assigned to work with them on a project, I knew I'd be expected by them to work late hours and weekends. Biglaw attorneys should be required to take a week-long orientation on how to chill out before working for the government.

That’s so funny. When I leave big law for government I am 100% going in with the expectation to work like a normal human being. Otherwise why would you take the job?

Unfortunately, a lot come in with the mentality of working for the government for a few years and then transitioning back into biglaw after learning about how the other side works. I did antitrust, and many of the attorneys with whom I worked are now partners within firms' antitrust practice groups. If not that, some are now working in-house for big tech companies. Why not spend a few years only earning $160k under the federal government when it could translate into a shit-ton of money later on?