Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation Forum

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Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm

Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has. I'm a HYS 3l who went to a V5 last summer. I realized I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation instead, ideally trial focused.

I'm aware of Susman as a firm that may fit this model in NYC. Any other NYC firms people would recommend looking into? Looking to make at least market.

Thanks again!

RecruiterMan

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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by RecruiterMan » Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm
... I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation ...

...Looking to make at least market...
lol

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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm
Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has. I'm a HYS 3l who went to a V5 last summer. I realized I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation instead, ideally trial focused.

I'm aware of Susman as a firm that may fit this model in NYC. Any other NYC firms people would recommend looking into? Looking to make at least market.

Thanks again!
At market: Susman Godfrey, Selendy & Gay, Kaplan Hecker Fink. All much more selective than biglaw (unless your V5 is Wachtell Lipton).

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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:19 pm

RecruiterMan wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:15 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm
... I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation ...

...Looking to make at least market...
lol
Does this not exist? People citing Susman, Selendy, Kaplan?

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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:03 pm

There are only a few plaintiff's side litigation boutique in NYC that pays>= market, there are more in DC/CA/Chicago

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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:03 pm
There are only a few plaintiff's side litigation boutique in NYC that pays>= market, there are more in DC/CA/Chicago
What are the ones in DC/Chicago?

Anonymous User
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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:19 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm
Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has. I'm a HYS 3l who went to a V5 last summer. I realized I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation instead, ideally trial focused.

I'm aware of Susman as a firm that may fit this model in NYC. Any other NYC firms people would recommend looking into? Looking to make at least market.

Thanks again!
At market: Susman Godfrey, Selendy & Gay, Kaplan Hecker Fink. All much more selective than biglaw (unless your V5 is Wachtell Lipton).
Is Susman actually that much more selective? Their grade cutoffs at my HYS are notably below any of the big DC firms.

Anonymous User
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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:03 pm
There are only a few plaintiff's side litigation boutique in NYC that pays>= market, there are more in DC/CA/Chicago
What are the ones in DC/Chicago?
https://firsthand.co/best-companies-to- ... -boutiques

Not all focus on plaintiffs’ side but it’s a starting point

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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 05, 2022 10:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:19 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm
Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has. I'm a HYS 3l who went to a V5 last summer. I realized I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation instead, ideally trial focused.

I'm aware of Susman as a firm that may fit this model in NYC. Any other NYC firms people would recommend looking into? Looking to make at least market.

Thanks again!
At market: Susman Godfrey, Selendy & Gay, Kaplan Hecker Fink. All much more selective than biglaw (unless your V5 is Wachtell Lipton).
Is Susman actually that much more selective? Their grade cutoffs at my HYS are notably below any of the big DC firms.
That'd surprise me. Perhaps this reflects reporting biases? Or perhaps it reflects the facts that (1) Susman NY is far more selective than the other Susman offices; and (2) Susman NY doesn't extend return offers to summers.

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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:19 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm
Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has. I'm a HYS 3l who went to a V5 last summer. I realized I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation instead, ideally trial focused.

I'm aware of Susman as a firm that may fit this model in NYC. Any other NYC firms people would recommend looking into? Looking to make at least market.

Thanks again!
At market: Susman Godfrey, Selendy & Gay, Kaplan Hecker Fink. All much more selective than biglaw (unless your V5 is Wachtell Lipton).
Is Susman actually that much more selective? Their grade cutoffs at my HYS are notably below any of the big DC firms.
Susman is probably the most selective law firm in the country with more than 100 lawyers. Their numbers are likely off at your school because their summer program is unusual--very small, does not guarantee an offer--as like most elite litigation boutiques it primarily recruits post-clerkship. Fwiw the median GPA for their summer program at my school was stratospheric--think >4.0 equivalent--the highest at OCI by a decent margin, though it was skewed by the very small number of students they took.

Also, I don't think it's accurate that Susman NY is "much more selective" than the other Susman offices; it's probably more selective than Houston due to size if nothing else, but every Susman office is very selective.

Selendy is not in the same ballpark as Susman or Kaplan selectivity-wise.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:03 pm
There are only a few plaintiff's side litigation boutique in NYC that pays>= market, there are more in DC/CA/Chicago
What are the ones in DC/Chicago?
In Chicago: Edelson, Keller Lenkner. Also Bartlit Beck, Eimer Stahl, and Goldman Ismail may do some plaintiff-side work (they certainly do contingency work).

Anonymous User
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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 06, 2022 2:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:19 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm
Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has. I'm a HYS 3l who went to a V5 last summer. I realized I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation instead, ideally trial focused.

I'm aware of Susman as a firm that may fit this model in NYC. Any other NYC firms people would recommend looking into? Looking to make at least market.

Thanks again!
At market: Susman Godfrey, Selendy & Gay, Kaplan Hecker Fink. All much more selective than biglaw (unless your V5 is Wachtell Lipton).
Is Susman actually that much more selective? Their grade cutoffs at my HYS are notably below any of the big DC firms.
Susman is probably the most selective law firm in the country with more than 100 lawyers. Their numbers are likely off at your school because their summer program is unusual--very small, does not guarantee an offer--as like most elite litigation boutiques it primarily recruits post-clerkship. Fwiw the median GPA for their summer program at my school was stratospheric--think >4.0 equivalent--the highest at OCI by a decent margin, though it was skewed by the very small number of students they took.

Also, I don't think it's accurate that Susman NY is "much more selective" than the other Susman offices; it's probably more selective than Houston due to size if nothing else, but every Susman office is very selective.

Selendy is not in the same ballpark as Susman or Kaplan selectivity-wise.
Two caveats to my post: Susman Houston, as far as I'm aware for all, and all had a COA clerkship lined up before they summered. Susman dipped well below median for those candidates, though.

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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:28 am

Not nearly as selective as the ones mentioned so far, but Kasowitz Benson does plaintiff's side work and pays market (or pretty close to market) last I knew.

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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:13 am

Any good plaintiff-side shops that aren't market or above (with the insane hours that come with it)? If someone wanted to leave biglaw and keep doing sophisticated work instead of slip and falls, wanted to be on the plaintiff side, and wanted to make a lifestyle move and was open to a pay cut, where should they look? I'm most interested in DC but open to hearing takes nationwide.

Anonymous User
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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 2:17 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:19 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm
Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has. I'm a HYS 3l who went to a V5 last summer. I realized I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation instead, ideally trial focused.

I'm aware of Susman as a firm that may fit this model in NYC. Any other NYC firms people would recommend looking into? Looking to make at least market.

Thanks again!
At market: Susman Godfrey, Selendy & Gay, Kaplan Hecker Fink. All much more selective than biglaw (unless your V5 is Wachtell Lipton).
Is Susman actually that much more selective? Their grade cutoffs at my HYS are notably below any of the big DC firms.
Susman is probably the most selective law firm in the country with more than 100 lawyers. Their numbers are likely off at your school because their summer program is unusual--very small, does not guarantee an offer--as like most elite litigation boutiques it primarily recruits post-clerkship. Fwiw the median GPA for their summer program at my school was stratospheric--think >4.0 equivalent--the highest at OCI by a decent margin, though it was skewed by the very small number of students they took.

Also, I don't think it's accurate that Susman NY is "much more selective" than the other Susman offices; it's probably more selective than Houston due to size if nothing else, but every Susman office is very selective.

Selendy is not in the same ballpark as Susman or Kaplan selectivity-wise.
Two caveats to my post: Susman Houston, as far as I'm aware for all, and all had a COA clerkship lined up before they summered. Susman dipped well below median for those candidates, though.
Something doesn’t make sense here—“well below median” students don’t get federal appellate clerkships. Anyway whatever’s going on there, it’s absurd to suggest Susman is comparable in selectivity to normal biglaw.

Anonymous User
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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:19 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm
Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has. I'm a HYS 3l who went to a V5 last summer. I realized I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation instead, ideally trial focused.

I'm aware of Susman as a firm that may fit this model in NYC. Any other NYC firms people would recommend looking into? Looking to make at least market.

Thanks again!
At market: Susman Godfrey, Selendy & Gay, Kaplan Hecker Fink. All much more selective than biglaw (unless your V5 is Wachtell Lipton).
Is Susman actually that much more selective? Their grade cutoffs at my HYS are notably below any of the big DC firms.
Susman is probably the most selective law firm in the country with more than 100 lawyers. Their numbers are likely off at your school because their summer program is unusual--very small, does not guarantee an offer--as like most elite litigation boutiques it primarily recruits post-clerkship. Fwiw the median GPA for their summer program at my school was stratospheric--think >4.0 equivalent--the highest at OCI by a decent margin, though it was skewed by the very small number of students they took.

Also, I don't think it's accurate that Susman NY is "much more selective" than the other Susman offices; it's probably more selective than Houston due to size if nothing else, but every Susman office is very selective.

Selendy is not in the same ballpark as Susman or Kaplan selectivity-wise.
Previous skeptical poster. Agreed that every Susman office is extremely selective, much more so than biglaw, but I stand by there being some office-to-office variance. Houston is significantly larger than the other offices, hires more summers (and may extend return offers), and is in a less desirable location. The three other offices (NY, LA, and Seattle) are of roughly equal size, but they're in differently-sized markets. Susman NY is maybe the most desirable landing spot for litigators in the largest market and has over half the firm's SCOTUS clerks. It may be the most selective office of any firm in the country (ruling out micro-boutiques).

Anonymous User
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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:59 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 2:17 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:19 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm
Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has. I'm a HYS 3l who went to a V5 last summer. I realized I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation instead, ideally trial focused.

I'm aware of Susman as a firm that may fit this model in NYC. Any other NYC firms people would recommend looking into? Looking to make at least market.

Thanks again!
At market: Susman Godfrey, Selendy & Gay, Kaplan Hecker Fink. All much more selective than biglaw (unless your V5 is Wachtell Lipton).
Is Susman actually that much more selective? Their grade cutoffs at my HYS are notably below any of the big DC firms.
Susman is probably the most selective law firm in the country with more than 100 lawyers. Their numbers are likely off at your school because their summer program is unusual--very small, does not guarantee an offer--as like most elite litigation boutiques it primarily recruits post-clerkship. Fwiw the median GPA for their summer program at my school was stratospheric--think >4.0 equivalent--the highest at OCI by a decent margin, though it was skewed by the very small number of students they took.

Also, I don't think it's accurate that Susman NY is "much more selective" than the other Susman offices; it's probably more selective than Houston due to size if nothing else, but every Susman office is very selective.

Selendy is not in the same ballpark as Susman or Kaplan selectivity-wise.
Two caveats to my post: Susman Houston, as far as I'm aware for all, and all had a COA clerkship lined up before they summered. Susman dipped well below median for those candidates, though.
Something doesn’t make sense here—“well below median” students don’t get federal appellate clerkships. Anyway whatever’s going on there, it’s absurd to suggest Susman is comparable in selectivity to normal biglaw.
*cough* FedSoc *cough*

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Anonymous User
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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 06, 2022 2:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:59 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 2:17 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:19 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm
Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has. I'm a HYS 3l who went to a V5 last summer. I realized I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation instead, ideally trial focused.

I'm aware of Susman as a firm that may fit this model in NYC. Any other NYC firms people would recommend looking into? Looking to make at least market.

Thanks again!
At market: Susman Godfrey, Selendy & Gay, Kaplan Hecker Fink. All much more selective than biglaw (unless your V5 is Wachtell Lipton).
Is Susman actually that much more selective? Their grade cutoffs at my HYS are notably below any of the big DC firms.
Susman is probably the most selective law firm in the country with more than 100 lawyers. Their numbers are likely off at your school because their summer program is unusual--very small, does not guarantee an offer--as like most elite litigation boutiques it primarily recruits post-clerkship. Fwiw the median GPA for their summer program at my school was stratospheric--think >4.0 equivalent--the highest at OCI by a decent margin, though it was skewed by the very small number of students they took.

Also, I don't think it's accurate that Susman NY is "much more selective" than the other Susman offices; it's probably more selective than Houston due to size if nothing else, but every Susman office is very selective.

Selendy is not in the same ballpark as Susman or Kaplan selectivity-wise.
Two caveats to my post: Susman Houston, as far as I'm aware for all, and all had a COA clerkship lined up before they summered. Susman dipped well below median for those candidates, though.
Something doesn’t make sense here—“well below median” students don’t get federal appellate clerkships. Anyway whatever’s going on there, it’s absurd to suggest Susman is comparable in selectivity to normal biglaw.
Houston and Seattle are very small markets at Y/S - you can generally count the number of students going there every year on one hand. Not crazy that someone with ties and an interest in litigation will get a COA clerkship or a Susman summer offer (which is a few weeks and requires no commitment from the firm to have you back) with a handful of Hs after 1L year. I don't know how many of those people end up at Susman in the long run, but its definitely not the same as applying for a full-time job off a clerkship in NYC.

But NYC is pretty boutique rich at this point. For sort of "both sides" commercial boutiques with a substantial amount of plaintiff side work you've got:
-Boies (boutique-ish)
-Holwell
-Molo
-Quinn (boutique-ish)
-Roche
-Selendy
-Susman
And I'd argue that if you're considering these firms you should also look at both Wachtell and Cravath for litigation, which in some ways are closer to boutiques than other NYC V10 offices.

Then there are other boutiques that actually do a lot of their paying work on the defense side (both civil and criminal), but represent a substantial number of more public-interest or quasi-public-interest plaintiffs:
-Emery Celli
-Kaplan Hecker
-Wilkinson Stekloff

The above firms are all probably more selective, and tend to pay around market - some pretty reliably above. But they are distinct from what I'd argue are a third class of firms that actually principally do "little guy" sophisticated plaintiff work (class actions, MDLs, etc.)
-Bernstein Litowitz
-Cohen Milstein
-Lieff Cabraser
-Hagens Berman
-Robbins Geller
And plenty of others with a presence as well

And then there are lit boutiques that are pretty specialized and don't really do traditional plaintiff's work:
-Desmarais (patent)
-Outten & Golden (employee-side labor)
-Krieger Kim (white collar)
-Lankler Siffert (white collar)
-Morvillo Abramowitz (white collar)
-Neufeld Scheck (civil rights)
-Reichman Jorgensen (patent)
-Sanford Heisler (employee-side labor)
And there are more here too - especially in the white collar space.

Anonymous User
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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 2:42 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:59 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 2:17 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:19 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm
Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has. I'm a HYS 3l who went to a V5 last summer. I realized I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation instead, ideally trial focused.

I'm aware of Susman as a firm that may fit this model in NYC. Any other NYC firms people would recommend looking into? Looking to make at least market.

Thanks again!
At market: Susman Godfrey, Selendy & Gay, Kaplan Hecker Fink. All much more selective than biglaw (unless your V5 is Wachtell Lipton).
Is Susman actually that much more selective? Their grade cutoffs at my HYS are notably below any of the big DC firms.
Susman is probably the most selective law firm in the country with more than 100 lawyers. Their numbers are likely off at your school because their summer program is unusual--very small, does not guarantee an offer--as like most elite litigation boutiques it primarily recruits post-clerkship. Fwiw the median GPA for their summer program at my school was stratospheric--think >4.0 equivalent--the highest at OCI by a decent margin, though it was skewed by the very small number of students they took.

Also, I don't think it's accurate that Susman NY is "much more selective" than the other Susman offices; it's probably more selective than Houston due to size if nothing else, but every Susman office is very selective.

Selendy is not in the same ballpark as Susman or Kaplan selectivity-wise.
Two caveats to my post: Susman Houston, as far as I'm aware for all, and all had a COA clerkship lined up before they summered. Susman dipped well below median for those candidates, though.
Something doesn’t make sense here—“well below median” students don’t get federal appellate clerkships. Anyway whatever’s going on there, it’s absurd to suggest Susman is comparable in selectivity to normal biglaw.
Houston and Seattle are very small markets at Y/S - you can generally count the number of students going there every year on one hand. Not crazy that someone with ties and an interest in litigation will get a COA clerkship or a Susman summer offer (which is a few weeks and requires no commitment from the firm to have you back) with a handful of Hs after 1L year. I don't know how many of those people end up at Susman in the long run, but its definitely not the same as applying for a full-time job off a clerkship in NYC.

But NYC is pretty boutique rich at this point. For sort of "both sides" commercial boutiques with a substantial amount of plaintiff side work you've got:
-Boies (boutique-ish)
-Holwell
-Molo
-Quinn (boutique-ish)
-Roche
-Selendy
-Susman
And I'd argue that if you're considering these firms you should also look at both Wachtell and Cravath for litigation, which in some ways are closer to boutiques than other NYC V10 offices.

Then there are other boutiques that actually do a lot of their paying work on the defense side (both civil and criminal), but represent a substantial number of more public-interest or quasi-public-interest plaintiffs:
-Emery Celli
-Kaplan Hecker
-Wilkinson Stekloff

The above firms are all probably more selective, and tend to pay around market - some pretty reliably above. But they are distinct from what I'd argue are a third class of firms that actually principally do "little guy" sophisticated plaintiff work (class actions, MDLs, etc.)
-Bernstein Litowitz
-Cohen Milstein
-Lieff Cabraser
-Hagens Berman
-Robbins Geller
And plenty of others with a presence as well

And then there are lit boutiques that are pretty specialized and don't really do traditional plaintiff's work:
-Desmarais (patent)
-Outten & Golden (employee-side labor)
-Krieger Kim (white collar)
-Lankler Siffert (white collar)
-Morvillo Abramowitz (white collar)
-Neufeld Scheck (civil rights)
-Reichman Jorgensen (patent)
-Sanford Heisler (employee-side labor)
And there are more here too - especially in the white collar space.
This is a great and very interesting list. How much of a presence do Wilkinson and Molo have in NY vs. their other offices?

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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:01 pm
This is a great and very interesting list. How much of a presence do Wilkinson and Molo have in NY vs. their other offices?
Quoted anon here: Just going off of area codes, I counted maybe ~30% of Wilkinson partners and 10% of associates in NY; about ~20% of Molo partners and 45% of associates in NY. These are all small denominators, of course.

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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:31 pm

These firms were listed as not on the Susman/etc list
-Bernstein Litowitz
-Cohen Milstein
-Lieff Cabraser
-Hagens Berman
-Robbins Geller

Is that because they pay less? Less prestigious? Just curious why these plaintiff-only shops get less clerks (or at least are perceived that way--maybe in reality they do!)

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Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 2:42 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:59 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 2:17 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:19 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm
Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has. I'm a HYS 3l who went to a V5 last summer. I realized I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation instead, ideally trial focused.

I'm aware of Susman as a firm that may fit this model in NYC. Any other NYC firms people would recommend looking into? Looking to make at least market.

Thanks again!
At market: Susman Godfrey, Selendy & Gay, Kaplan Hecker Fink. All much more selective than biglaw (unless your V5 is Wachtell Lipton).
Is Susman actually that much more selective? Their grade cutoffs at my HYS are notably below any of the big DC firms.
Susman is probably the most selective law firm in the country with more than 100 lawyers. Their numbers are likely off at your school because their summer program is unusual--very small, does not guarantee an offer--as like most elite litigation boutiques it primarily recruits post-clerkship. Fwiw the median GPA for their summer program at my school was stratospheric--think >4.0 equivalent--the highest at OCI by a decent margin, though it was skewed by the very small number of students they took.

Also, I don't think it's accurate that Susman NY is "much more selective" than the other Susman offices; it's probably more selective than Houston due to size if nothing else, but every Susman office is very selective.

Selendy is not in the same ballpark as Susman or Kaplan selectivity-wise.
Two caveats to my post: Susman Houston, as far as I'm aware for all, and all had a COA clerkship lined up before they summered. Susman dipped well below median for those candidates, though.
Something doesn’t make sense here—“well below median” students don’t get federal appellate clerkships. Anyway whatever’s going on there, it’s absurd to suggest Susman is comparable in selectivity to normal biglaw.
Houston and Seattle are very small markets at Y/S - you can generally count the number of students going there every year on one hand. Not crazy that someone with ties and an interest in litigation will get a COA clerkship or a Susman summer offer (which is a few weeks and requires no commitment from the firm to have you back) with a handful of Hs after 1L year. I don't know how many of those people end up at Susman in the long run, but its definitely not the same as applying for a full-time job off a clerkship in NYC.

But NYC is pretty boutique rich at this point. For sort of "both sides" commercial boutiques with a substantial amount of plaintiff side work you've got:
-Boies (boutique-ish)
-Holwell
-Molo
-Quinn (boutique-ish)
-Roche
-Selendy
-Susman
And I'd argue that if you're considering these firms you should also look at both Wachtell and Cravath for litigation, which in some ways are closer to boutiques than other NYC V10 offices.

Then there are other boutiques that actually do a lot of their paying work on the defense side (both civil and criminal), but represent a substantial number of more public-interest or quasi-public-interest plaintiffs:
-Emery Celli
-Kaplan Hecker
-Wilkinson Stekloff

The above firms are all probably more selective, and tend to pay around market - some pretty reliably above. But they are distinct from what I'd argue are a third class of firms that actually principally do "little guy" sophisticated plaintiff work (class actions, MDLs, etc.)
-Bernstein Litowitz
-Cohen Milstein
-Lieff Cabraser
-Hagens Berman
-Robbins Geller
And plenty of others with a presence as well

And then there are lit boutiques that are pretty specialized and don't really do traditional plaintiff's work:
-Desmarais (patent)
-Outten & Golden (employee-side labor)
-Krieger Kim (white collar)
-Lankler Siffert (white collar)
-Morvillo Abramowitz (white collar)
-Neufeld Scheck (civil rights)
-Reichman Jorgensen (patent)
-Sanford Heisler (employee-side labor)
And there are more here too - especially in the white collar space.
My understanding is that partnership odds are decent at Susman - is that true for Molo? Holwell? Others?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:12 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 2:42 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:59 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 2:17 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:19 pm


At market: Susman Godfrey, Selendy & Gay, Kaplan Hecker Fink. All much more selective than biglaw (unless your V5 is Wachtell Lipton).
Is Susman actually that much more selective? Their grade cutoffs at my HYS are notably below any of the big DC firms.
Susman is probably the most selective law firm in the country with more than 100 lawyers. Their numbers are likely off at your school because their summer program is unusual--very small, does not guarantee an offer--as like most elite litigation boutiques it primarily recruits post-clerkship. Fwiw the median GPA for their summer program at my school was stratospheric--think >4.0 equivalent--the highest at OCI by a decent margin, though it was skewed by the very small number of students they took.

Also, I don't think it's accurate that Susman NY is "much more selective" than the other Susman offices; it's probably more selective than Houston due to size if nothing else, but every Susman office is very selective.

Selendy is not in the same ballpark as Susman or Kaplan selectivity-wise.
Two caveats to my post: Susman Houston, as far as I'm aware for all, and all had a COA clerkship lined up before they summered. Susman dipped well below median for those candidates, though.
Something doesn’t make sense here—“well below median” students don’t get federal appellate clerkships. Anyway whatever’s going on there, it’s absurd to suggest Susman is comparable in selectivity to normal biglaw.
Houston and Seattle are very small markets at Y/S - you can generally count the number of students going there every year on one hand. Not crazy that someone with ties and an interest in litigation will get a COA clerkship or a Susman summer offer (which is a few weeks and requires no commitment from the firm to have you back) with a handful of Hs after 1L year. I don't know how many of those people end up at Susman in the long run, but its definitely not the same as applying for a full-time job off a clerkship in NYC.

But NYC is pretty boutique rich at this point. For sort of "both sides" commercial boutiques with a substantial amount of plaintiff side work you've got:
-Boies (boutique-ish)
-Holwell
-Molo
-Quinn (boutique-ish)
-Roche
-Selendy
-Susman
And I'd argue that if you're considering these firms you should also look at both Wachtell and Cravath for litigation, which in some ways are closer to boutiques than other NYC V10 offices.

Then there are other boutiques that actually do a lot of their paying work on the defense side (both civil and criminal), but represent a substantial number of more public-interest or quasi-public-interest plaintiffs:
-Emery Celli
-Kaplan Hecker
-Wilkinson Stekloff

The above firms are all probably more selective, and tend to pay around market - some pretty reliably above. But they are distinct from what I'd argue are a third class of firms that actually principally do "little guy" sophisticated plaintiff work (class actions, MDLs, etc.)
-Bernstein Litowitz
-Cohen Milstein
-Lieff Cabraser
-Hagens Berman
-Robbins Geller
And plenty of others with a presence as well

And then there are lit boutiques that are pretty specialized and don't really do traditional plaintiff's work:
-Desmarais (patent)
-Outten & Golden (employee-side labor)
-Krieger Kim (white collar)
-Lankler Siffert (white collar)
-Morvillo Abramowitz (white collar)
-Neufeld Scheck (civil rights)
-Reichman Jorgensen (patent)
-Sanford Heisler (employee-side labor)
And there are more here too - especially in the white collar space.
My understanding is that partnership odds are decent at Susman - is that true for Molo? Holwell? Others?
Also curious about this.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428967
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:55 am

I'm guessing these boutiques are too small for anyone on here to know much

Anonymous User
Posts: 428967
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Plaintiff-side NYC Litigation

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:19 pm
RecruiterMan wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:15 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:14 pm
... I would love to do plaintiff-side litigation ...

...Looking to make at least market...
lol
Does this not exist? People citing Susman, Selendy, Kaplan?
I Lol'd because these are what a poster less lazy than me dubbed "both sides" firms, which are really not very different from pure defense-side firms, if you ask me (but then again, who asked me, really), and certainly not what I'd think of as a potential employer for someone bent on doing plaintiff-side work. If that's the sort of work you want to do, I'd go work at a firm that (almost-) exclusively does plaintiff-side work.

I worked at one of the firms listed in that lengthy post above. I was certainly not paid "market"--more like half of what my friends in big law made. One could fairly easily make non-equity partner at my firm (just a matter of sticking around long enough, really), but only the named partners had an equity stake.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


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