Kirkland/Bloomberg Recruiting Article Forum

[jedibill]

Kirkland ringing the bell on the recruiting effects of their street rep? Thought an interesting read. Wonder if it means any actual changes in the firm's approach going forward.

For the first time, [K&E chairman Jon Ballis] wants to address head-on the thing he thinks is limiting Kirkland from reaching even greater heights: Too many recruits think his firm is a den of wolves, where “sharp-elbowed” lawyers work grueling hours while looking out for their own good.

Full read: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business- ... OiIxIn0%3D

[Anonymous User]

Pretty amazing Andy Calder of all people is quoted as saying that KE isn’t a sharp-elbowed place. See: https://abovethelaw.com/2020/05/partner ... all/?amp=1

There’s a whole different thread that devolved into debating that email, but of the hundreds of partners KE could have sent out to back up Ballis and say the firm doesn’t deserve its reputation, it’s just funny that it’s this guy who got blasted in ATL less than two years ago.

[Anonymous User]

As a KE associate what I took away from this article is once again how incredibly rich the firm is and yet does not pay associates nearly commensurate for the work we are asked, and in fact perform, day in and day out. The market multiple for EOY bonus is kind of embarrassing at this point.

[ExpOriental]

Pretty amazing Andy Calder of all people is quoted as saying that KE isn’t a sharp-elbowed place. See: https://abovethelaw.com/2020/05/partner ... all/?amp=1

There’s a whole different thread that devolved into debating that email, but of the hundreds of partners KE could have sent out to back up Ballis and say the firm doesn’t deserve its reputation, it’s just funny that it’s this guy who got blasted in ATL less than two years ago.

Was just about to point that out.

Even as someone who is generally dubious that Kirkland is significantly worse than your average biglaw firm when it comes to this stuff, that article has the opposite of its intended effect. The lady doth protest too much.

[Anonymous User]

As a KE associate what I took away from this article is once again how incredibly rich the firm is and yet does not pay associates nearly commensurate for the work we are asked, and in fact perform, day in and day out. The market multiple for EOY bonus is kind of embarrassing at this point.

100%

[Anonymous User]

Didn't they just BARELY beat market bonuses after a record year? Good article!

[Anonymous User]

Sooooo excited to see what this thread turns into :)

[Anonymous User]

Sooooo excited to see what this thread turns into :)

Almost every thread that's longer than 3 pages has the exact same shit going on.

[Anonymous User]

Sooooo excited to see what this thread turns into :)

Almost every thread that's longer than 3 pages has the exact same shit going on.

It’s a criminal offense to post positive things about Kirkland on TLS and all of us have an ethical responsibility as members of the Bar to say something negative if they are mentioned in a thread.

On a more serious note, I wonder if all the controversial mixed reviews of Kirkland’s culture are a function of things changing over time? Like more senior people remember it being one way, but things are different now, leading to seemingly contradictory takes?

To me, the most interesting part of the article was the discussion of partner comp, because that is usually a bigger differentiator in culture at the partner level than what happens down with the associates. Kirkland was historically the poster child for Eat What You Kill, so a strong and intentional shift away from that model is very interesting. Would love to hear an SP’s take on it, since this sort of thing is super important to them but probably doesn’t filter down to the associate much.

[Anonymous User]

this kills me. incoming K&E SA here and it was so obvious they told associates in the interviews to stress that they are "not a sweat shop" in interviews because it came up repeatedly in every firm interaction I had

[Anonymous User]

this kills me. incoming K&E SA here and it was so obvious they told associates in the interviews to stress that they are "not a sweat shop" in interviews because it came up repeatedly in every firm interaction I had

Same. One of the lateral SPs that interviewed me said they were wary of the sharp elbows culture when moving to K&E and observed that for about a year but it's changed over the last 4-5 years apparently. Could, of course, be a sales pitch but they brought it up when I asked them the difference between their experience at the two firms.

[Anonymous User]

this kills me. incoming K&E SA here and it was so obvious they told associates in the interviews to stress that they are "not a sweat shop" in interviews because it came up repeatedly in every firm interaction I had

Incoming KE SA as well. Did you get an email confirming your mailing address and a gift card with $5 for Starbucks?

I wonder if that means they're about to send us a branded coffee mug as an incoming associate gift.

[Anonymous User]

this kills me. incoming K&E SA here and it was so obvious they told associates in the interviews to stress that they are "not a sweat shop" in interviews because it came up repeatedly in every firm interaction I had

Same. One of the lateral SPs that interviewed me said they were wary of the sharp elbows culture when moving to K&E and observed that for about a year but it's changed over the last 4-5 years apparently. Could, of course, be a sales pitch but they brought it up when I asked them the difference between their experience at the two firms.

Yeah yeah hopefully it has actually changed but I definitely got taunted by some attorneys "get ready for 2,500 hours lol!!" when I took the job. I guess the only thing is that I had the same phrase get echoed so many times in interviews it geeked me a little.

The experience is not going to be wildly different than other V10 firms. I think part of K&E's rep is due to the more aggressive personalities of the attorneys there. Or maybe the most aggressive attorneys are just the loudest.

I have friends that work at K&E and have regularly billed about 1,900-2,100 and have been happy with their bonuses with the exception of last year. Don't stress. See how you like the summer. Don't rely on the summer as being representative of associate life, but you can at least get to know the people.

[Anonymous User]

this kills me. incoming K&E SA here and it was so obvious they told associates in the interviews to stress that they are "not a sweat shop" in interviews because it came up repeatedly in every firm interaction I had

Yeah I wouldn't start worrying. Its likely that you didn't turn down Cravath for Kirkland, so you probably would have ended up going to another firm with similar prestrige and work load. Just enjoy your summer aka paid vacation.

[Anonymous User]

this kills me. incoming K&E SA here and it was so obvious they told associates in the interviews to stress that they are "not a sweat shop" in interviews because it came up repeatedly in every firm interaction I had

Yeah I wouldn't start worrying. Its likely that you didn't turn down Cravath for Kirkland, so you probably would have ended up going to another firm with similar prestrige and work load. Just enjoy your summer aka paid vacation.

Ughhh. Craavaaaaaath, the quintessential has-been.

[Anonymous User]

this kills me. incoming K&E SA here and it was so obvious they told associates in the interviews to stress that they are "not a sweat shop" in interviews because it came up repeatedly in every firm interaction I had

Yeah I wouldn't start worrying. Its likely that you didn't turn down Cravath for Kirkland, so you probably would have ended up going to another firm with similar prestrige and work load. Just enjoy your summer aka paid vacation.

Lots of people with Cravath offers (and many more with Cravath numbers) pass on it for a Kirkland office outside NY.

[Anonymous User]

this kills me. incoming K&E SA here and it was so obvious they told associates in the interviews to stress that they are "not a sweat shop" in interviews because it came up repeatedly in every firm interaction I had

Yeah I wouldn't start worrying. Its likely that you didn't turn down Cravath for Kirkland, so you probably would have ended up going to another firm with similar prestrige and work load. Just enjoy your summer aka paid vacation.

I turned down dpw for k&e. How does that matter? ITE, the workload is crazy everywhere and prestige matters little outside TLS.

[Anonymous User]

this kills me. incoming K&E SA here and it was so obvious they told associates in the interviews to stress that they are "not a sweat shop" in interviews because it came up repeatedly in every firm interaction I had

Yeah I wouldn't start worrying. Its likely that you didn't turn down Cravath for Kirkland, so you probably would have ended up going to another firm with similar prestrige and work load. Just enjoy your summer aka paid vacation.

I turned down dpw for k&e. How does that matter? ITE, the workload is crazy everywhere and prestige matters little outside TLS.

I'm the quoted anon. Think I didn't say well. Mean to convey that there is probably no difference between K&E and anywhere else you would have gone, so don't fret and just enjoy your summer.

[Anonymous User]

I've been at 3 different V20 firms including K&E and honestly it's all the same. K&E gets a lot of attention (both negative and positive) because of its financial success over the past decade. It's like when Skadden broke into the V5 or when that new money couple buys the biggest house on a very old money and affluent block. People whisper not so nice things, as a very human reaction to an outsider stirring things up. In another decade it will be another firm who gets shittalked on TLS after people get used to K&E being where it is.

[Anonymous User]

this kills me. incoming K&E SA here and it was so obvious they told associates in the interviews to stress that they are "not a sweat shop" in interviews because it came up repeatedly in every firm interaction I had

Yeah I wouldn't start worrying. Its likely that you didn't turn down Cravath for Kirkland, so you probably would have ended up going to another firm with similar prestrige and work load. Just enjoy your summer aka paid vacation.

Ughhh. Craavaaaaaath, the quintessential has-been.

Non-NYC major market litigator here. Let me just say I've seen plenty of Cravath laterals come into town, expecting firms to roll out the red carpet for them. They usually just end up at good, but run-of-the-mill firms. Think average or slightly above average firms. The top litigation practices in town have no interest in a Cravath lateral at all. Pretty funny actually.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Pretty amazing Andy Calder of all people is quoted as saying that KE isn’t a sharp-elbowed place. See: https://abovethelaw.com/2020/05/partner ... all/?amp=1

There’s a whole different thread that devolved into debating that email, but of the hundreds of partners KE could have sent out to back up Ballis and say the firm doesn’t deserve its reputation, it’s just funny that it’s this guy who got blasted in ATL less than two years ago.

Guy who mass-threatened to fire everyone thinks the culture is super chill, lol.

Also don't forget he actually *tried to deny he sent the email*. The one everyone had a record of, with his name on it! If he wasn't a high-fiber turd, I would almost admire the fucking audacity.

[Anonymous User]

Sooooo excited to see what this thread turns into :)

Almost every thread that's longer than 3 pages has the exact same shit going on.

It’s a criminal offense to post positive things about Kirkland on TLS and all of us have an ethical responsibility as members of the Bar to say something negative if they are mentioned in a thread.

On a more serious note, I wonder if all the controversial mixed reviews of Kirkland’s culture are a function of things changing over time? Like more senior people remember it being one way, but things are different now, leading to seemingly contradictory takes?

To me, the most interesting part of the article was the discussion of partner comp, because that is usually a bigger differentiator in culture at the partner level than what happens down with the associates. Kirkland was historically the poster child for Eat What You Kill, so a strong and intentional shift away from that model is very interesting. Would love to hear an SP’s take on it, since this sort of thing is super important to them but probably doesn’t filter down to the associate much.

The mixed reviews are a function of the different cultures between offices. For example, the Chicago & NY office aren't that much worse than its peers in those cities. Houston and the rest of the Texas offices are a whole different beast though, and as you might imagine from Calder's email, is much worse to work at than other Texas firms.

Source: former associate who worked projects for NY, Chicago and Houston.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Also, gotta stop letting them get away with promoting that "share partner consideration track is shorter now!" thing. It's like saying you're an A student because you got one and then 20 B-minuses; just very bad-faith.

And even if it were true...it basically serves to defend allegations that the firm caters exclusively to rainmakers by bragging about how quickly it's trying to promote future rainmakers. Rightly or wrongly, it's pretty clear leadership is openly proud of many of the things the firm is "accused" of.

[Anonymous User]

this kills me. incoming K&E SA here and it was so obvious they told associates in the interviews to stress that they are "not a sweat shop" in interviews because it came up repeatedly in every firm interaction I had

Yeah I wouldn't start worrying. Its likely that you didn't turn down Cravath for Kirkland, so you probably would have ended up going to another firm with similar prestrige and work load. Just enjoy your summer aka paid vacation.

Lots of people with Cravath offers (and many more with Cravath numbers) pass on it for a Kirkland office outside NY.

Chiming in, I turned down a Cravath offer for Kirkland. Cravath's rotation system is terrible and discourages even a semblance of exploration of the law/your interests in it.

[Anonymous User]

Pretty amazing Andy Calder of all people is quoted as saying that KE isn’t a sharp-elbowed place. See: https://abovethelaw.com/2020/05/partner ... all/?amp=1

There’s a whole different thread that devolved into debating that email, but of the hundreds of partners KE could have sent out to back up Ballis and say the firm doesn’t deserve its reputation, it’s just funny that it’s this guy who got blasted in ATL less than two years ago.

Guy who mass-threatened to fire everyone thinks the culture is super chill, lol.

Also don't forget he actually *tried to deny he sent the email*. The one everyone had a record of, with his name on it! If he wasn't a high-fiber turd, I would almost admire the fucking audacity.

Have to give it to him though, he is the first person in the history of biglaw who got laid more in biglaw than pre-biglaw.