If you fail to make partner at a V10 - can you lateral elsewhere and be a partner? Is this common? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Trying to figure out what other firms would assess before making you a partner. How likely is it you can be a partner (transactional) at a V50 coming from a V10? Is this as common as "couldn't make partner at X, so moved to Y and still received a partner salary" (I know partners at non V10s are likely to make less)

[Anonymous User]

Yes. there's pretty much an unspoken rule that V10 associates that don't make it will make partner at a lower ranked firm, if they want to slum it. It's called "lateralling down," and it's fairly common. In fact, most V10 elections committees try to set you up ("match" you) with a ~V50 firm as consolation for not making partner.

The V50+s really like this because they feel like they can finally nab the super smart top candidates they never had a dream of onboarding after law school. And the V10 associates who get passed up on for partner like it because they can continue to ride on their law school grades without having to develop a book of business like the rest of the riffraff in the V50s.

The key is finding the right path to get you where you want. For example, Cahill has super high PPP and is not a V10. Does anybody know off the top of their head which V10s are feeders to Cahill for lateraling down? I have a friend who matched there but I don't recall which V10 she started at.

[Anonymous User]

The key is finding the right path to get you where you want. For example, Cahill has super high PPP and is not a V10. Does anybody know off the top of their head which V10s are feeders to Cahill for lateraling down? I have a friend who matched there but I don't recall which V10 she started at.

It’s my understanding that S&C matches down to Cahill, on the (sensible) theory that their offices are a convenient ~1,000 feet apart in lower Manhattan.

In fact, the very same day a senior associate at S&C gets the disappointing news they were not destined for V10 partnership glory, they discover that all of their personal effects have been packed into bankers boxes. All S&C merch (logo facing out) belonging to that associate is summarily confiscated. That S&C associate is then escorted over to Cahill’s offices, where they are promptly installed into a corner office (or near-corner, if a corner isn’t available) as a Cahill partner.

[Anonymous User]

Is this true? I'm a 6th year working at a V30 in banking and finance. I'm not looking to move as I'm content with my working conditions. Colleagues have lateraled to V10 firms (e.g., Kirkland, Paul Weiss, DPW) and the door appears to be wide open in the current market. If I'm being told that I can lateral, collect a fat sign on bonus, slog away for the next 5 years, then slide into partnership at a V50, that sounds almost too good to be true.

[Sackboy]

Is this true? I'm a 6th year working at a V30 in banking and finance. I'm not looking to move as I'm content with my working conditions. Colleagues have lateraled to V10 firms (e.g., Kirkland, Paul Weiss, DPW) and the door appears to be wide open in the current market. If I'm being told that I can lateral, collect a fat sign on bonus, slog away for the next 5 years, then slide into partnership at a V50, that sounds almost too good to be true.

Because it typically is. You'll be lateraling into the non-equity partnership in most cases or get equity with the absolute minimum shares (this can be barely more than an 8th year or counsel at some shops) and the potential to flatline or be de-equitized at some point. The idea that it's common for 8th years at S&C to be passed up and then just move over to Goodwin with equity is beyond silly.

[LittleRedCorvette]

Is this true? I'm a 6th year working at a V30 in banking and finance. I'm not looking to move as I'm content with my working conditions. Colleagues have lateraled to V10 firms (e.g., Kirkland, Paul Weiss, DPW) and the door appears to be wide open in the current market. If I'm being told that I can lateral, collect a fat sign on bonus, slog away for the next 5 years, then slide into partnership at a V50, that sounds almost too good to be true.

Come on man...or woman...

[Anonymous User]

The key is finding the right path to get you where you want. For example, Cahill has super high PPP and is not a V10. Does anybody know off the top of their head which V10s are feeders to Cahill for lateraling down? I have a friend who matched there but I don't recall which V10 she started at.

It’s my understanding that S&C matches down to Cahill, on the (sensible) theory that their offices are a convenient ~1,000 feet apart in lower Manhattan.

In fact, the very same day a senior associate at S&C gets the disappointing news they were not destined for V10 partnership glory, they discover that all of their personal effects have been packed into bankers boxes. All S&C merch (logo facing out) belonging to that associate is summarily confiscated. That S&C associate is then escorted over to Cahill’s offices, where they are promptly installed into a corner office (or near-corner, if a corner isn’t available) as a Cahill partner.

[ExpOriental]

Is this true? I'm a 6th year working at a V30 in banking and finance. I'm not looking to move as I'm content with my working conditions. Colleagues have lateraled to V10 firms (e.g., Kirkland, Paul Weiss, DPW) and the door appears to be wide open in the current market. If I'm being told that I can lateral, collect a fat sign on bonus, slog away for the next 5 years, then slide into partnership at a V50, that sounds almost too good to be true.

If you really are a 6th year and aren't immediately able to recognize the sarcasm in this thread, I have bad news for your partnership prospects

[Anonymous User]

It's unusual for an associate to lateral directly into a partner position at any firm (except Kirkland). Typically associates with no path to promotion (whether partner or counsel) will lateral into a counsel position at another firm, and build their practice from there.

IMO if your long-term goal is biglaw partnership you should figure out by year four or five whether it's attainable at your firm. If it's not, lateral to another firm where you'll have a realistic chance. You'll be better off than if you have to start somewhere new as a ninth year.

[Anonymous User]

Is this true? I'm a 6th year working at a V30 in banking and finance. I'm not looking to move as I'm content with my working conditions. Colleagues have lateraled to V10 firms (e.g., Kirkland, Paul Weiss, DPW) and the door appears to be wide open in the current market. If I'm being told that I can lateral, collect a fat sign on bonus, slog away for the next 5 years, then slide into partnership at a V50, that sounds almost too good to be true.

Hate to burst your bubble, but it doesn't really work that way.

You see V10s only feed their "pure V10" candidates to V50 partnership ranks. Think of it like a mudblood sort of thing - once your resume has been marred by a non-V10, you aren't really one of those pureblood candidates that the V50s wish they got during OCI, but couldn't. They can see right through your "lateral up" and then "lateral down" trick just like Malfoy could see through Hermoine's stinging jinx on HP in the deathly hallows. Plus, the V10s don't want to do you any favors since you didn't start with them.

It's even worse if you've already started to develop your own book of business. I have plenty of friends at V10s who actually started generating (maybe $1m/yr or so), didn't make partner because they weren't generating from elite "firm clients," and then were rejected from V50s because the V50 thought the V10 would get mad about them taking away business. The V50s really have to walk a really thin line here because they don't want to piss off their feeder V10s, so it will really hurt you if you're generating business and clients like you. Better to remain a cog in the wheel with your nose to the grindstone at a V10 until you're a 10th year or so and then take the consolation prize when you later down to V50 partner.

[Anonymous User]

Is this true? I'm a 6th year working at a V30 in banking and finance. I'm not looking to move as I'm content with my working conditions. Colleagues have lateraled to V10 firms (e.g., Kirkland, Paul Weiss, DPW) and the door appears to be wide open in the current market. If I'm being told that I can lateral, collect a fat sign on bonus, slog away for the next 5 years, then slide into partnership at a V50, that sounds almost too good to be true.

Hate to burst your bubble, but it doesn't really work that way.

You see V10s only feed their "pure V10" candidates to V50 partnership ranks. Think of it like a mudblood sort of thing - once your resume has been marred by a non-V10, you aren't really one of those pureblood candidates that the V50s wish they got during OCI, but couldn't. They can see right through your "lateral up" and then "lateral down" trick just like Malfoy could see through Hermoine's stinging jinx on HP in the deathly hallows. Plus, the V10s don't want to do you any favors since you didn't start with them.

It's even worse if you've already started to develop your own book of business. I have plenty of friends at V10s who actually started generating (maybe $1m/yr or so), didn't make partner because they weren't generating from elite "firm clients," and then were rejected from V50s because the V50 thought the V10 would get mad about them taking away business. The V50s really have to walk a really thin line here because they don't want to piss off their feeder V10s, so it will really hurt you if you're generating business and clients like you. Better to remain a cog in the wheel with your nose to the grindstone at a V10 until you're a 10th year or so and then take the consolation prize when you later down to V50 partner.

good effort but the sarcasm was only effective (funny) the first time someone did it in this thread.

[Anonymous User]

I have been at several v50s and have been involved in lateral hiring, and in my experience, we never really distinguished between lateral candidates from v10 firms vs. AmLaw100 or even AmLaw200. While a Cravath person certainly has a certain "glow," I've seen them passed over in favor of candidates from much lower-ranked firms.

[Anonymous User]

I have been at several v50s and have been involved in lateral hiring, and in my experience, we never really distinguished between lateral candidates from v10 firms vs. AmLaw100 or even AmLaw200. While a Cravath person certainly has a certain "glow," I've seen them passed over in favor of candidates from much lower-ranked firms.

[Anonymous User]

My team also prioritizes attributes other than firm background for selecting partners. It’s mostly about financial track record. Firm background is more of a factor when we bring in junior to mid level associates (given you ideally want well trained lawyers who are capable of doing complex work).

[Anonymous User]

My team also prioritizes attributes other than firm background for selecting partners. It’s mostly about financial track record. Firm background is more of a factor when we bring in junior to mid level associates (given you ideally want well trained lawyers who are capable of doing complex work).

Mine too. I know some senior who was otherwise excellent but got passed up for partner because they kept 80% of their savings in cash and spent on stupid things like charitable donations rather than a nice house that would appreciate in value. Just didn't have the right financial track record for my firm.

[Anonymous User]

Haha, obviously meant in terms of client relationships, book of business, etc but fair play.