Tampa firm salaries after recent raises Forum

[Anonymous User]

Current 1L hoping to settle in Tampa. I’m hoping to figure out current salary data.

I’ve checked this forum and NALP, but a lot of the firms seem to have raised salaries over the past few months and that information is not available online. If anyone has intel about first-year salaries at any of the below firms (or at other firms I’m not thinking of), I’d appreciate it.

• Shook Hardy & Bacon
• Gunster
• GT
• Hill Ward Henderson
• Shumaker Loop & Kendrick
• Phelps Dunbar
• Nelson Mullins
• Bradley Arant Boult Cummings
• Trenam
• Cole Scott & Kissane
• Shutts & Bowen

[Anonymous User]

Current 1L hoping to settle in Tampa. I’m hoping to figure out current salary data.

I’ve checked this forum and NALP, but a lot of the firms seem to have raised salaries over the past few months and that information is not available online. If anyone has intel about first-year salaries at any of the below firms (or at other firms I’m not thinking of), I’d appreciate it.

• Shook Hardy & Bacon
• Gunster
• GT
• Hill Ward Henderson
• Shumaker Loop & Kendrick
• Phelps Dunbar
• Nelson Mullins
• Bradley Arant Boult Cummings
• Trenam
• Cole Scott & Kissane
• Shutts & Bowen

I know that Holland & Knight is DPW scale in all offices (lockstep all the way through, but bonuses are below market in Tampa). Foley & Lardner is DPW scale for years 1-3, and then it compresses a bit; I saw on a different thread recently that they're about $15-40k below DPW scale, depending on the year (they also have below-market bonuses). Those seem to be the two best options in Tampa.

[Anonymous User]

• Shook Hardy & Bacon
• Gunster
• GT
• Hill Ward Henderson
• Shumaker Loop & Kendrick
• Phelps Dunbar
• Nelson Mullins
• Bradley Arant Boult Cummings
• Trenam
• Cole Scott & Kissane
• Shutts & Bowen

A lot of this is secondhand, but market:
GT, H&K, Foley

30k below and compressed non-DPW raises:
170-190k: Shutts/Gunster

140-160k
Hill Ward

120-140k
Bradley

100-120K
Phelps, Nelson, Shook

Less than 95K
CSK and Trenam

[Anonymous User]

Current 1L hoping to settle in Tampa. I’m hoping to figure out current salary data.

I’ve checked this forum and NALP, but a lot of the firms seem to have raised salaries over the past few months and that information is not available online. If anyone has intel about first-year salaries at any of the below firms (or at other firms I’m not thinking of), I’d appreciate it.

• Shook Hardy & Bacon
• Gunster
• GT
• Hill Ward Henderson
• Shumaker Loop & Kendrick
• Phelps Dunbar
• Nelson Mullins
• Bradley Arant Boult Cummings
• Trenam
• Cole Scott & Kissane
• Shutts & Bowen

I’m still in law school, and this is just information I was able to find online, so please feel welcome to correct me. I have researched it a bit because I’m hoping to end up in Tampa.

Tier 1
The only “true market” firm in Tampa is H&K (but bonuses may be off-market--I couldn’t find information on that).

Then it’s Foley, which starts at DPW scale for the first three years and then compresses afterward. The compression isn’t as stark as you’ll see at some of the other firms, but it’s between $15k-$45k less per year.

You’d think that GT would pay market, but they’re black-box everywhere except for like New York, Miami, etc. I’ve heard that they start under DPW scale in Tampa and that they’re even more compressed than Foley afterward. I don’t have exact numbers for post-DPW raises, but before then, they paid between $130k-$190k depending on market (this gives you an idea of their range).

Tier 2
Next is Akerman. It’s also hard to find salary data on Akerman. I saw a post on here or another forum or something saying that corporate folks are starting at $205k in all offices now, but that other practice groups are lower. I only found one post saying this, so who knows whether it’s true. Raises after the first year are severely compressed (again, moreso than the ones explained above).

Gunster is at $170-175. It’s compressed afterward.

According to NALP, Shook is at $170k. I’m not sure I believe that (maybe it was just an entry error in NALP?), but that’s what it says.

Tier 3
Carlton Fields is at $145k according to Vault/Firsthand.

Shutts & Bowen is around $150k for first-years in south Florida, so I really doubt they’d be higher in Tampa.

Shumaker is at $145k starting.

Quarles is at $140k starting.

Bradley is hard to find information on; all I have is that it’s between $130k-$170k depending on market. I’d expect the to fall into this tier.

Last I’d heard, Hill Ward was at $120k for first-years, but I’d expect that they’ve raised to match the other firms in this tier.

Tier 4
Nelson Mullins is between $120k-$140k in Florida. I found a thread on another forum saying that they started at $125k in Orlando two years ago.

Phelps is between $120k-$140k.

Tier 5
All of the following firms pay between $90k - $120k (and most of them fall on the lower end of that range):

GrayRobinson

Stearns Weaver

Rumberger Kirk

Trenam

Greenspoon

[Anonymous User]

Current 1L hoping to settle in Tampa. I’m hoping to figure out current salary data.

I’ve checked this forum and NALP, but a lot of the firms seem to have raised salaries over the past few months and that information is not available online. If anyone has intel about first-year salaries at any of the below firms (or at other firms I’m not thinking of), I’d appreciate it.

• Shook Hardy & Bacon
• Gunster
• GT
• Hill Ward Henderson
• Shumaker Loop & Kendrick
• Phelps Dunbar
• Nelson Mullins
• Bradley Arant Boult Cummings
• Trenam
• Cole Scott & Kissane
• Shutts & Bowen

Can anyone verify what Shook Hardy & Bacon is paying in Tampa at this point? The posts above paint two very different pictures.

[Anonymous User]

Bradley is 170k for first years now.

[Anonymous User]

Quarles is at $150k right now, and $175k effective July.

[Anonymous User]

Quarles is at $150k right now, and $175k effective July.

Do yall think that the other firms that were previously paying $120k-$140k will all raise to $170ish?

[Anonymous User]

I can’t see firms like Shumaker, Phelps, GR, and HWH raising to 170k in the immediate future. The QBs and Gunsters of the world have always outpaced them in comp so I would expect that to continue. We’re more likely to see those firms (which were very recently at 140k) get to 200k before we see those others bump to 170k. I.e., the big players will bump rates first and then you’ll see the 120-140 crowd come up. I would expect a firm like Carlton Fields to bump soon though. Last I heard CF surprisingly had not bumped.

Firms have to be able to charge certain rates to fund these salary hikes. And some of the firms mentioned within this thread can’t compete at those rates. For example, you won’t see a firm like CSK ever competing with any of the other firms mentioned in this thread because it’s an ID firm. Their associates and partners generally bill at hourly rates less than $200. Compare that to QB or Gunster where a first year bills at $300+ and the rates go way up from there. Foley and HK fund the higher salaries with national rates. They can deploy Tampa and other small market associates on files with clients from major markets willing to pay those fees.

[Anonymous User]

And to add on to the above poster, part of the salary movement upwards isn't necessarily a reflection of the Tampa market. I know at least one firm being discussed here that didn't bump up salaries because the Tampa market necessitated it. It made the move because it's seeing retention and recruiting issues due to increased competition in its primary markets, and that is what resulted in the bump.

[Anonymous User]

And to add on to the above poster, part of the salary movement upwards isn't necessarily a reflection of the Tampa market. I know at least one firm being discussed here that didn't bump up salaries because the Tampa market necessitated it. It made the move because it's seeing retention and recruiting issues due to increased competition in its primary markets, and that is what resulted in the bump.

QB?

That’s a great point: Tampa isn’t necessarily driving this. Other markets are. That pushed HK and Foley to move. The firms that try to compete for that talent (Gunster, Stearns, QB, Bradley) move a bit and so on. But there are only so many jobs at the top-paying firms. Tampa remains a small legal community with comparatively few major commercial firms. And there’s plenty of okay talent that’s willing to take that $150k job from you.

[Anonymous User]

And to add on to the above poster, part of the salary movement upwards isn't necessarily a reflection of the Tampa market. I know at least one firm being discussed here that didn't bump up salaries because the Tampa market necessitated it. It made the move because it's seeing retention and recruiting issues due to increased competition in its primary markets, and that is what resulted in the bump.

QB?

That’s a great point: Tampa isn’t necessarily driving this. Other markets are. That pushed HK and Foley to move. The firms that try to compete for that talent (Gunster, Stearns, QB, Bradley) move a bit and so on. But there are only so many jobs at the top-paying firms. Tampa remains a small legal community with comparatively few major commercial firms. And there’s plenty of okay talent that’s willing to take that $150k job from you.

Law school student here. What kind of credentials do you need to land a spot at each tier of these firms (HK/Foley as a tier, the $170k firms as a tier, the $140k firms as a tier)?

[Anonymous User]

And to add on to the above poster, part of the salary movement upwards isn't necessarily a reflection of the Tampa market. I know at least one firm being discussed here that didn't bump up salaries because the Tampa market necessitated it. It made the move because it's seeing retention and recruiting issues due to increased competition in its primary markets, and that is what resulted in the bump.

QB?

That’s a great point: Tampa isn’t necessarily driving this. Other markets are. That pushed HK and Foley to move. The firms that try to compete for that talent (Gunster, Stearns, QB, Bradley) move a bit and so on. But there are only so many jobs at the top-paying firms. Tampa remains a small legal community with comparatively few major commercial firms. And there’s plenty of okay talent that’s willing to take that $150k job from you.

Law school student here. What kind of credentials do you need to land a spot at each tier of these firms (HK/Foley as a tier, the $170k firms as a tier, the $140k firms as a tier)?

There’s no perfect answer here. Honestly, do your best in school and apply to the firms you want to work at. Networking, connections, period work experience, prestigious ugrad, and other factors make a big difference. That said, here’s what I would deem roughly bare minimum expectations:

HK/Foley: top 50% T14 or top 15-20% UF/FSU, top 10% Stetson, UM, etc. LR is always a plus.

Gunster/QB/Stearns/SPB/Bradley/Shook/GT/Akerman/Carlton Fields: same as above

Phelps/Shutts/Rumberger/Shumaker/HWH/GR/Buchanan Ingersoll/Nelson Mullins/Freeborn/Bush Ross: top 33% UF/FSU, top 15-20% Stetson, UM, etc.

Trenam/Burr Forman/Adams Reese/Greenspoon/Dinsmore/Johnson Pope: same as last tier

L&E boutiques: top 33%

ID firms (CSK, WS, Banker, etc): top 50% probably?

Those are roughly the stratifications of Tampa in my eyes. I’m sure I missed some firms and may have misplaced a few. This ignores small firms, although I can count on one hand the high level boutiques in town. And this is so dependent on your group. This list is not perfectly ordered by pay either.

Bottom line: you need to perform fairly well in law school to get one of these jobs. So again, do your best and apply. Once you’re in practice and looking to lateral there are many more nuanced factors that will affect your decision. Again, those are bare minimums in my mind, so you’re a LOT more competitive if you’re top 5% of your class at UF than if you’re top 10% at Stetson even if both stats may get hired at HK.

Also, I intentionally gave percentages for the top FL schools. Someone from, say, Cooley or Coastal is obviously not as competitive. And someone from T14 is obviously more competitive. Wayyy too many factors and every firm will make some surprising hires each year based on stats alone. But rest assured, the cream of the crop from your law school class are going to those top two tiers.

[Anonymous User]

And to add on to the above poster, part of the salary movement upwards isn't necessarily a reflection of the Tampa market. I know at least one firm being discussed here that didn't bump up salaries because the Tampa market necessitated it. It made the move because it's seeing retention and recruiting issues due to increased competition in its primary markets, and that is what resulted in the bump.

QB?

That’s a great point: Tampa isn’t necessarily driving this. Other markets are. That pushed HK and Foley to move. The firms that try to compete for that talent (Gunster, Stearns, QB, Bradley) move a bit and so on. But there are only so many jobs at the top-paying firms. Tampa remains a small legal community with comparatively few major commercial firms. And there’s plenty of okay talent that’s willing to take that $150k job from you.

Law school student here. What kind of credentials do you need to land a spot at each tier of these firms (HK/Foley as a tier, the $170k firms as a tier, the $140k firms as a tier)?

There’s no perfect answer here. Honestly, do your best in school and apply to the firms you want to work at. Networking, connections, period work experience, prestigious ugrad, and other factors make a big difference. That said, here’s what I would deem roughly bare minimum expectations:

HK/Foley: top 50% T14 or top 15-20% UF/FSU, top 10% Stetson, UM, etc. LR is always a plus.

Gunster/QB/Stearns/SPB/Bradley/Shook/GT/Akerman/Carlton Fields: same as above

Phelps/Shutts/Rumberger/Shumaker/HWH/GR/Buchanan Ingersoll/Nelson Mullins/Freeborn/Bush Ross: top 33% UF/FSU, top 15-20% Stetson, UM, etc.

Trenam/Burr Forman/Adams Reese/Greenspoon/Dinsmore/Johnson Pope: same as last tier

L&E boutiques: top 33%

ID firms (CSK, WS, Banker, etc): top 50% probably?

Those are roughly the stratifications of Tampa in my eyes. I’m sure I missed some firms and may have misplaced a few. This ignores small firms, although I can count on one hand the high level boutiques in town. And this is so dependent on your group. This list is not perfectly ordered by pay either.

Bottom line: you need to perform fairly well in law school to get one of these jobs. So again, do your best and apply. Once you’re in practice and looking to lateral there are many more nuanced factors that will affect your decision. Again, those are bare minimums in my mind, so you’re a LOT more competitive if you’re top 5% of your class at UF than if you’re top 10% at Stetson even if both stats may get hired at HK.

Also, I intentionally gave percentages for the top FL schools. Someone from, say, Cooley or Coastal is obviously not as competitive. And someone from T14 is obviously more competitive. Wayyy too many factors and every firm will make some surprising hires each year based on stats alone. But rest assured, the cream of the crop from your law school class are going to those top two tiers.

This is very helpful; thank you. You mentioned that your group dictates this to some degree—would litigation be more or less competitive than transactional?

[Anonymous User]

And to add on to the above poster, part of the salary movement upwards isn't necessarily a reflection of the Tampa market. I know at least one firm being discussed here that didn't bump up salaries because the Tampa market necessitated it. It made the move because it's seeing retention and recruiting issues due to increased competition in its primary markets, and that is what resulted in the bump.

QB?

That’s a great point: Tampa isn’t necessarily driving this. Other markets are. That pushed HK and Foley to move. The firms that try to compete for that talent (Gunster, Stearns, QB, Bradley) move a bit and so on. But there are only so many jobs at the top-paying firms. Tampa remains a small legal community with comparatively few major commercial firms. And there’s plenty of okay talent that’s willing to take that $150k job from you.

Law school student here. What kind of credentials do you need to land a spot at each tier of these firms (HK/Foley as a tier, the $170k firms as a tier, the $140k firms as a tier)?

There’s no perfect answer here. Honestly, do your best in school and apply to the firms you want to work at. Networking, connections, previous work experience, prestigious ugrad, and other factors make a big difference. That said, here’s what I would deem roughly bare minimum expectations:

HK/Foley: top 50% T14 or top 15-20% UF/FSU, top 10% Stetson, UM, etc. LR is always a plus.

Gunster/QB/Stearns/SPB/Bradley/Shook/GT/Akerman/Carlton Fields: same as above

Phelps/Shutts/Rumberger/Shumaker/HWH/GR/Buchanan Ingersoll/Nelson Mullins/Freeborn/Bush Ross: top 33% UF/FSU, top 15-20% Stetson, UM, etc.

Trenam/Burr Forman/Adams Reese/Greenspoon/Dinsmore/Johnson Pope: same as last tier

L&E boutiques: top 33%

ID firms (CSK, WS, Banker, etc): top 50% probably?

Those are roughly the stratifications of Tampa in my eyes. I’m sure I missed some firms and may have misplaced a few. This ignores small firms, although I can count on one hand the high level boutiques in town. And this is so dependent on your group. This list is not perfectly ordered by pay either.

Bottom line: you need to perform fairly well in law school to get one of these jobs. So again, do your best and apply. Once you’re in practice and looking to lateral there are many more nuanced factors that will affect your decision. Again, those are bare minimums in my mind, so you’re a LOT more competitive if you’re top 5% of your class at UF than if you’re top 10% at Stetson even if both stats may get hired at HK.

Also, I intentionally gave percentages for the top FL schools. Someone from, say, Cooley or Coastal is obviously not as competitive. And someone from T14 is obviously more competitive. Wayyy too many factors and every firm will make some surprising hires each year based on stats alone. But rest assured, the cream of the crop from your law school class are going to those top two tiers.

This is very helpful; thank you. You mentioned that your group dictates this to some degree—would litigation be more or less competitive than transactional?

You’re asking questions that are getting deeper and deeper into the “it depends” category. And most firms are going to stuff you where their current needs are anyway. In general, I would say biglaw lit cares more about grades than transactional. Part of that is that having a federal clerkship makes you highly desirable for biglaw lit. And those clerkships require sterling credentials and great grades.

While I can empathize with your questions, as a law student, I think you are getting ahead of yourself and worrying about things you can’t worry about at this stage. Focus on getting great grades and networking when you have the opportunity. If you put in the work to be top 5% + LR at UF, then you’ll end up with a great job. Try to aim for that.

Right now firms will take any warm body willing to bill hours for transactional roles. Simultaneously, lit is lagging and remains as competitive as ever, particularly in Tampa where there aren’t that many lit openings. But I’m more familiar with the lateral market and can’t speak to the current first year market.

At the end of the day, apply. If you get the job, you were competitive (no matter the credentials). If you don’t get the job, make sure you made a good impression.

[Anonymous User]

Quarles is at $150k right now, and $175k effective July.

Can co-sign this.

[Anonymous User]

So Holland & Knight announced raises this week—they matched the new Cravath scale in many offices, but not Tampa.

What does this mean for the other Tampa firms?

Is Foley likely to move at all (right now they only pay old DPW scale through year 3, while H&K Tampa will continue to pay old DPW scale for every class year)? As of now, they’re paying the same in all offices. Will that change like it did with H&K?

What about the other key players (Akerman, Gunster)?

Source:
https://abovethelaw.com/2022/03/hk-raises-22/

[Anonymous User]

Any updates on this? Most of these firms don't list compensation on NALP or Vault.

[Anonymous User]

Tampa isnt going to touch Cravath. There are like 12 summer associate positions at 150K+ firms that have any sort of business being discussed here. The poster above used the tier range and I think it stops around Tier 2 for anybody from a Top Law School. The work is (and was--I spent time at one of the top firms) provincial.

Farmer Johns Cow Farms Inc., Healthcare Litigation, and Insurance Defense are all the top businesses in the area. Mhmmm, all the milk you can drink from your clients! All cool deal work and litigation involves outside counsel flying into Tampa to litigate. There are very few clients willing to pay for Biglaw credentials or rates.

Now, I saw some advice about being top 20% at UF (or god forbid one of the trash Florida schools that aren't UF)...If you go to UF, you aren't a top law school. I don't care what Spivey Consulting magic your Dean conjured to game the US News Rankings. UF is a good T1 school, thats it.

[Anonymous User]

Tampa isnt going to touch Cravath. There are like 12 summer associate positions at 150K+ firms that have any sort of business being discussed here. The poster above used the tier range and I think it stops around Tier 2 for anybody from a Top Law School. The work is (and was--I spent time at one of the top firms) provincial.

Farmer Johns Cow Farms Inc., Healthcare Litigation, and Insurance Defense are all the top businesses in the area. Mhmmm, all the milk you can drink from your clients! All cool deal work and litigation involves outside counsel flying into Tampa to litigate. There are very few clients willing to pay for Biglaw credentials or rates.

Now, I saw some advice about being top 20% at UF (or god forbid one of the trash Florida schools that aren't UF)...If you go to UF, you aren't a top law school. I don't care what Spivey Consulting magic your Dean conjured to game the US News Rankings. UF is a good T1 school, thats it.

this is basically right. The move up works for H&K because it has F500 clients who will pay rates close to or at major market. If you look at the lit the rest of the firms are doing, it’s stuff like repping big local car dealers, big farms, etc. they won’t ever pay rates high enough to support anything close to a cravath scale

[Anonymous User]

this is basically right. The move up works for H&K because it has F500 clients who will pay rates close to or at major market. If you look at the lit the rest of the firms are doing, it’s stuff like repping big local car dealers, big farms, etc. they won’t ever pay rates high enough to support anything close to a cravath scale

Is this true for even Foley & Lardner? Or are they in the same bucket as H&K?

Tampa isnt going to touch Cravath. There are like 12 summer associate positions at 150K+ firms that have any sort of business being discussed here. The poster above used the tier range and I think it stops around Tier 2 for anybody from a Top Law School. The work is (and was--I spent time at one of the top firms) provincial.

Farmer Johns Cow Farms Inc., Healthcare Litigation, and Insurance Defense are all the top businesses in the area. Mhmmm, all the milk you can drink from your clients! All cool deal work and litigation involves outside counsel flying into Tampa to litigate. There are very few clients willing to pay for Biglaw credentials or rates.

Now, I saw some advice about being top 20% at UF (or god forbid one of the trash Florida schools that aren't UF)...If you go to UF, you aren't a top law school. I don't care what Spivey Consulting magic your Dean conjured to game the US News Rankings. UF is a good T1 school, thats it.

What do you mean by the bolded part? Are you saying that only people from "Top Law Schools" can get anything Tier 2 and above? And are you saying that UF wouldn't be competitive for these tiers?

From what I understand, the very top of the class at UF is well-positioned for the firms in Tiers 1 and 2.

[Anonymous User]

You’re right. Top of UF is positioned well, as is rank 1-10 from UM/FSU depending on your bio factors/interviewing skills/softs.

The bolder part meant people from T30 law schools talking about Bradley Arant or Phelps like they are good firms. Getting paid 150k for 2200 hours is insanity if you can go to a large market and get biglaw.

It’s what I like about this forum rather than say, Reddit. They are hopelessly optimistic there. Here, you focus on good outcomes and positioning yourself well.

My point was really to highlight how the line is only blurry if you make it blurry. The firms worth considering are T2 firms (post above) for people who go to Top Law Schools. Otherwise the work is lame, the pay is shitty, and the hours are just the same as biglaw without the comp.

The dig at UF was juvenile but I wanted it to convey a larger point that just because UF is ranked high, you still need to be top 10% there to get a CHANCE at the T2 firms. And even then you need to be super credentialed as a top 10%er (law review, moot, journal).

There are too many T20ers targeting Florida to make UF just a slam dunk in the state.

[Anonymous User]

Foley is now on a modified-Cravath scale that ends up being higher than H&K in Tampa (H&K is still on DPW scale in that office).

Bonuses at both will be below market, but it honestly seems like a pretty great deal overall.

Sources:
Foley
https://abovethelaw.com/2022/05/foley-l ... aise-2022/

H&K
https://abovethelaw.com/2021/07/holland-knight-raises/
https://abovethelaw.com/2022/03/hk-raises-22/

[Anonymous User]

You’re right. Top of UF is positioned well, as is rank 1-10 from UM/FSU depending on your bio factors/interviewing skills/softs.

The bolder part meant people from T30 law schools talking about Bradley Arant or Phelps like they are good firms. Getting paid 150k for 2200 hours is insanity if you can go to a large market and get biglaw.

It’s what I like about this forum rather than say, Reddit. They are hopelessly optimistic there. Here, you focus on good outcomes and positioning yourself well.

My point was really to highlight how the line is only blurry if you make it blurry. The firms worth considering are T2 firms (post above) for people who go to Top Law Schools. Otherwise the work is lame, the pay is shitty, and the hours are just the same as biglaw without the comp.

The dig at UF was juvenile but I wanted it to convey a larger point that just because UF is ranked high, you still need to be top 10% there to get a CHANCE at the T2 firms. And even then you need to be super credentialed as a top 10%er (law review, moot, journal).

There are too many T20ers targeting Florida to make UF just a slam dunk in the state.

Redditors are hopelessly idiotic about lawfirm hiring—they take the bizarre stance that just because you’re not aiming for Cravath-scale biglaw, you should be fine as there are allegedly plenty of $150K/year “midlaw” jobs for your median grads at regional schools, completely ignoring the bimodal salary distribution.

[LegalComedian]

• Shook Hardy & Bacon
• Gunster
• GT
• Hill Ward Henderson
• Shumaker Loop & Kendrick
• Phelps Dunbar
• Nelson Mullins
• Bradley Arant Boult Cummings
• Trenam
• Cole Scott & Kissane
• Shutts & Bowen

A lot of this is secondhand, but market:
GT, H&K, Foley

30k below and compressed non-DPW raises:
170-190k: Shutts/Gunster

140-160k
Hill Ward

120-140k
Bradley

100-120K
Phelps, Nelson, Shook

Less than 95K
CSK and Trenam

Bradley is at $150k in Birmingham, AL so I'd be surprised if Tampa didn't at least match that given that it's a pricier market.