chances of 2L SA with 3.0-3.2 GPA from Penn? Forum

[itdobelikethat]

Hi TLS, nervous Penn student here. I didn't do too hot my first semester and I'm wondering if working in big law is out of the question. About GPA: 3.11, so I'm being realistic about my grades after 1L: between 3.0-3.2 sounds right.

I'm looking to do transactional work, not litigation. I'm also not shooting for a V10 firm either.

Is big law out of the question? Am I out of luck for my 2L summer? Thanks for the input!

[Anonymous User]

Hi TLS, nervous Penn student here. I didn't do too hot my first semester and I'm wondering if working in big law is out of the question. About GPA: 3.11, so I'm being realistic about my grades after 1L: between 3.0-3.2 sounds right.

I'm looking to do transactional work, not litigation. I'm also not shooting for a V10 firm either.

Is big law out of the question? Am I out of luck for my 2L summer? Thanks for the input!

I had grades in that range from a similarly ranked school and ended up with several offers. Relax, do the best you can this semester, research firms extensively, and practice interviewing. You'll be fine.

[Anonymous User]

It’s Penn. You’re at a T6 and a school that has one of the highest big law placement rates in the country. Take a few deep breaths and don’t psych yourself out too much.

Sending 2/3-3/4 of your class to big law means you don’t have to be median to get there.

[Anonymous User]

Apply to STB. They are less picky about grades.

[urbancowboy]

My first semester GPA was a 3.2 at a T30 public school in the Midwest. I still landed a NY V100. I would not sweat it at all--especially in this market. If the floor comes out from underneath, that might be a whole different story--but we're not there yet.

[Anonymous User]

Apply to STB. They are less picky about grades.

Idk why above poster singled out STB. Maybe that's true at HYS. But at my CCN, the people who get STB are almost all top 30-40%. They might dip lower for a diverse candidate, but a non-diverse one with no compelling WE or other pre-law school hooks is almost certainly not getting STB with a 3.0-3.2. That being said, OP, you should be fine getting a BigLaw 2L SA in this economy (even if it cools down a bit by July/August). Just cast a wide net and don't waste top bids on the group of relatively more selective firms (to which STB belongs lol).

[Anonymous User]

Apply to STB. They are less picky about grades.

Idk why above poster singled out STB. Maybe that's true at HYS. But at my CCN, the people who get STB are almost all top 30-40%. They might dip lower for a diverse candidate, but a non-diverse one with no compelling WE or other pre-law school hooks is almost certainly not getting STB with a 3.0-3.2. That being said, OP, you should be fine getting a BigLaw 2L SA in this economy (even if it cools down a bit by July/August). Just cast a wide net and don't waste top bids on the group of relatively more selective firms (to which STB belongs lol).

Yeah if you're gonna single out a V10 for not being grade selective it should be Skadden, based on my schools results at least.

[Anonymous User]

Apply to STB. They are less picky about grades.

Idk why above poster singled out STB. Maybe that's true at HYS. But at my CCN, the people who get STB are almost all top 30-40%. They might dip lower for a diverse candidate, but a non-diverse one with no compelling WE or other pre-law school hooks is almost certainly not getting STB with a 3.0-3.2. That being said, OP, you should be fine getting a BigLaw 2L SA in this economy (even if it cools down a bit by July/August). Just cast a wide net and don't waste top bids on the group of relatively more selective firms (to which STB belongs lol).

Yeah if you're gonna single out a V10 for not being grade selective it should be Skadden, based on my schools results at least.

It may be a bit tongue in cheek. I'm a 3L at Penn and apparently STB took a ton of Penn students in my year's OCI, so much so that we joke that 10% of the class is going to STB, which is obviously just hyperbole. It could just be them riffing on that joke (or they're just misguided, because STB has pretty competitive stats from our career services such that few, if any, below median Penn students are getting an offer).

[stbyes]

Apply to STB. They are less picky about grades.

Idk why above poster singled out STB. Maybe that's true at HYS. But at my CCN, the people who get STB are almost all top 30-40%. They might dip lower for a diverse candidate, but a non-diverse one with no compelling WE or other pre-law school hooks is almost certainly not getting STB with a 3.0-3.2. That being said, OP, you should be fine getting a BigLaw 2L SA in this economy (even if it cools down a bit by July/August). Just cast a wide net and don't waste top bids on the group of relatively more selective firms (to which STB belongs lol).

Yo don't get defensive bro. STB was the first firm that came to mind because I know multiple people who had similar stats as OP get STB, but no other V10 firm. Based on what I've seen on this board, I have no trouble mentioning Skadden or Weil along with STB, but I haven't seen the data personally. And as far as bidding goes, I think we're on the same page because I'm only suggesting that OP should bid STB and other firms you've suggested as backups and he shouldn't underestimate his own chances.

[existentialcrisis]

It’s Penn. You’re at a T6 and a school that has one of the highest big law placement rates in the country. Take a few deep breaths and don’t psych yourself out too much.

Sending 2/3-3/4 of your class to big law means you don’t have to be median to get there.

I’m not sure this is quite the right advice, albeit I’ll admit I didn’t graduate in quite the same boom economy.

I’d say aren’t out of the running by any means but you (1) obviously should try to do what you can to pull up your grades (which I’m sure you will) and (2) need to do everything you can to prepare for and maximize your OCI chances - mock interviews, chat with alums at firms, bid large, less selective New York classes, etc.

Some of your classmates will breeze though OCI and you likely won’t have that luxury. But you hopefully should still be ok if you take the right approach.

[LBJ's Hair]

Apply to STB. They are less picky about grades.

Idk why above poster singled out STB. Maybe that's true at HYS. But at my CCN, the people who get STB are almost all top 30-40%. They might dip lower for a diverse candidate, but a non-diverse one with no compelling WE or other pre-law school hooks is almost certainly not getting STB with a 3.0-3.2. That being said, OP, you should be fine getting a BigLaw 2L SA in this economy (even if it cools down a bit by July/August). Just cast a wide net and don't waste top bids on the group of relatively more selective firms (to which STB belongs lol).

Yo don't get defensive bro. STB was the first firm that came to mind because I know multiple people who had similar stats as OP get STB, but no other V10 firm. Based on what I've seen on this board, I have no trouble mentioning Skadden or Weil along with STB, but I haven't seen the data personally. And as far as bidding goes, I think we're on the same page because I'm only suggesting that OP should bid STB and other firms you've suggested as backups and he shouldn't underestimate his own chances.

you're a brand new account with 3 posts all devoted to flaming STB and "STB" is in your username ... what's the deal chief lol. did they fire you

OP, w/a 3.0-3.2 you should not bank on V10. apply to non-grade selective firms. ignore the STB troll - they're generally top-third at T6 for non-diverse. assume Penn is similar range

[Anonymous User]

Assuming you want to be in the NYC market -- STB, White & Case, Allen & Overy, Arnold & Porter, Baker & McKenzie, Baker Botts, Foley & Lardner, Fox Rothschild, Mayer Brown.

Some of these will be a little bit of a stretch but not by much if you're closer to the 3.2 range.

[Anonymous User]

Assuming you want to be in the NYC market -- STB, White & Case, Allen & Overy, Arnold & Porter, Baker & McKenzie, Baker Botts, Foley & Lardner, Fox Rothschild, Mayer Brown.

Some of these will be a little bit of a stretch but not by much if you're closer to the 3.2 range.

lol I love how STB is just randomly thrown in there with all the other places. Looks like someone has beef with the firm.

[Anonymous User]

Assuming you want to be in the NYC market -- STB, White & Case, Allen & Overy, Arnold & Porter, Baker & McKenzie, Baker Botts, Foley & Lardner, Fox Rothschild, Mayer Brown.

Some of these will be a little bit of a stretch but not by much if you're closer to the 3.2 range.

lol I love how STB is just randomly thrown in there with all the other places. Looks like someone has beef with the firm.

I think they're being sarcastic and joking given the previous posts.

[Anonymous User]

Apply to STB. They are less picky about grades.

Idk why above poster singled out STB. Maybe that's true at HYS. But at my CCN, the people who get STB are almost all top 30-40%. They might dip lower for a diverse candidate, but a non-diverse one with no compelling WE or other pre-law school hooks is almost certainly not getting STB with a 3.0-3.2. That being said, OP, you should be fine getting a BigLaw 2L SA in this economy (even if it cools down a bit by July/August). Just cast a wide net and don't waste top bids on the group of relatively more selective firms (to which STB belongs lol).

Yo don't get defensive bro. STB was the first firm that came to mind because I know multiple people who had similar stats as OP get STB, but no other V10 firm. Based on what I've seen on this board, I have no trouble mentioning Skadden or Weil along with STB, but I haven't seen the data personally. And as far as bidding goes, I think we're on the same page because I'm only suggesting that OP should bid STB and other firms you've suggested as backups and he shouldn't underestimate his own chances.

you're a brand new account with 3 posts all devoted to flaming STB and "STB" is in your username ... what's the deal chief lol. did they fire you

OP, w/a 3.0-3.2 you should not bank on V10. apply to non-grade selective firms. ignore the STB troll - they're generally top-third at T6 for non-diverse. assume Penn is similar range

Confirmed as well, 3L at another middling/lower t14 and STB median callback GPA was on par/higher than several other v10’s in NYC. Think top 25% or so. I’d think you’d have better luck shooing for KE/LW/Skad or heck maybe even PW

[stbyes]

Apply to STB. They are less picky about grades.

Idk why above poster singled out STB. Maybe that's true at HYS. But at my CCN, the people who get STB are almost all top 30-40%. They might dip lower for a diverse candidate, but a non-diverse one with no compelling WE or other pre-law school hooks is almost certainly not getting STB with a 3.0-3.2. That being said, OP, you should be fine getting a BigLaw 2L SA in this economy (even if it cools down a bit by July/August). Just cast a wide net and don't waste top bids on the group of relatively more selective firms (to which STB belongs lol).

Yo don't get defensive bro. STB was the first firm that came to mind because I know multiple people who had similar stats as OP get STB, but no other V10 firm. Based on what I've seen on this board, I have no trouble mentioning Skadden or Weil along with STB, but I haven't seen the data personally. And as far as bidding goes, I think we're on the same page because I'm only suggesting that OP should bid STB and other firms you've suggested as backups and he shouldn't underestimate his own chances.

you're a brand new account with 3 posts all devoted to flaming STB and "STB" is in your username ... what's the deal chief lol. did they fire you

OP, w/a 3.0-3.2 you should not bank on V10. apply to non-grade selective firms. ignore the STB troll - they're generally top-third at T6 for non-diverse. assume Penn is similar range

I don't understand why I'm being portrayed as a troll here. If anything, I'm encouraging people to apply to STB which means that they will have more people to choose from, making them more competitive. You go ahead and try to dissuade aspiring law students from applying to STB in the first place. If OP could interview with STB without bidding it that high, I see no reason why he should not interview with them.

[Anonymous User]

Apply to STB. They are less picky about grades.

Idk why above poster singled out STB. Maybe that's true at HYS. But at my CCN, the people who get STB are almost all top 30-40%. They might dip lower for a diverse candidate, but a non-diverse one with no compelling WE or other pre-law school hooks is almost certainly not getting STB with a 3.0-3.2. That being said, OP, you should be fine getting a BigLaw 2L SA in this economy (even if it cools down a bit by July/August). Just cast a wide net and don't waste top bids on the group of relatively more selective firms (to which STB belongs lol).

Yo don't get defensive bro. STB was the first firm that came to mind because I know multiple people who had similar stats as OP get STB, but no other V10 firm. Based on what I've seen on this board, I have no trouble mentioning Skadden or Weil along with STB, but I haven't seen the data personally. And as far as bidding goes, I think we're on the same page because I'm only suggesting that OP should bid STB and other firms you've suggested as backups and he shouldn't underestimate his own chances.

you're a brand new account with 3 posts all devoted to flaming STB and "STB" is in your username ... what's the deal chief lol. did they fire you

OP, w/a 3.0-3.2 you should not bank on V10. apply to non-grade selective firms. ignore the STB troll - they're generally top-third at T6 for non-diverse. assume Penn is similar range

I don't understand why I'm being portrayed as a troll here. If anything, I'm encouraging people to apply to STB which means that they will have more people to choose from, making them more competitive. You go ahead and try to dissuade aspiring law students from applying to STB in the first place. If OP could interview with STB without bidding it that high, I see no reason why he should not interview with them.

It's totally fine to encourage OP to try for STB if he/she has the space on the bidlist. It just makes little sense why every one of your posts (ITT and in others) tells someone to apply to only STB...without including all the peer firms that they should probably also apply to if they had the grades for STB. I agree STB is probably a tad less grade selective than S&C/CSM/DPW, but it's just as - or more? - selective as Skadden/Kirkland/PW/Debevoise/Cleary. Hence why people think you're trolling and/or salty from some past experience with STB.

Edit: Also, as someone above mentioned, a 3.0-3.2 at a T6 isn't going to get you STB barring diversity/unique hooks or an especially odd recruiting cycle (which it sounds like Penn may have had recently). It's just objectively ??? when OP asks for advice about which firms to apply to with a 3.0-3.2 and you reply with only STB lol.

[stbyes]

Apply to STB. They are less picky about grades.

Idk why above poster singled out STB. Maybe that's true at HYS. But at my CCN, the people who get STB are almost all top 30-40%. They might dip lower for a diverse candidate, but a non-diverse one with no compelling WE or other pre-law school hooks is almost certainly not getting STB with a 3.0-3.2. That being said, OP, you should be fine getting a BigLaw 2L SA in this economy (even if it cools down a bit by July/August). Just cast a wide net and don't waste top bids on the group of relatively more selective firms (to which STB belongs lol).

Yo don't get defensive bro. STB was the first firm that came to mind because I know multiple people who had similar stats as OP get STB, but no other V10 firm. Based on what I've seen on this board, I have no trouble mentioning Skadden or Weil along with STB, but I haven't seen the data personally. And as far as bidding goes, I think we're on the same page because I'm only suggesting that OP should bid STB and other firms you've suggested as backups and he shouldn't underestimate his own chances.

you're a brand new account with 3 posts all devoted to flaming STB and "STB" is in your username ... what's the deal chief lol. did they fire you

OP, w/a 3.0-3.2 you should not bank on V10. apply to non-grade selective firms. ignore the STB troll - they're generally top-third at T6 for non-diverse. assume Penn is similar range

I don't understand why I'm being portrayed as a troll here. If anything, I'm encouraging people to apply to STB which means that they will have more people to choose from, making them more competitive. You go ahead and try to dissuade aspiring law students from applying to STB in the first place. If OP could interview with STB without bidding it that high, I see no reason why he should not interview with them.

It's totally fine to encourage OP to try for STB if he/she has the space on the bidlist. It just makes little sense why every one of your posts (ITT and in others) tells someone to apply to only STB...without including all the peer firms that they should probably also apply to if they had the grades for STB. I agree STB is probably a tad less grade selective than S&C/CSM/DPW, but it's just as - or more? - selective as Skadden/Kirkland/PW/Debevoise/Cleary. Hence why people think you're trolling and/or salty from some past experience with STB.

Edit: Also, as someone above mentioned, a 3.0-3.2 at a T6 isn't going to get you STB barring diversity/unique hooks or an especially odd recruiting cycle (which it sounds like Penn may have had recently). It's just objectively ??? when OP asks for advice about which firms to apply to with a 3.0-3.2 and you reply with only STB lol.

Yeah sure. Then OP should bid STB/Skadden/Kirkland/PW/Debevoise/Cleary if he/she has the space on the bid list. But as I've said, my advice is based on what I've seen, and that's why I singled out STB. And your inference that I'm salty from some past experience with STB based on the fact that I told people to apply to STB is just ??? I don't know why I need to belabor this, but I would personally draw the opposite inference unless one has a crooked view that excluding aspiring law students is somehow a good thing to do.

[Anonymous User]

OP, I was at Penn a couple years ago. Goodwin takes below median students and was hiring like crazy the past two cycles. Yes, there were stealth layoffs at the beginning of the pandemic, but from what I'm seeing in the NYC market, they're doing very well now. Not a great risk and I think you'll have better options if you interview well, but I'd make sure it's on your list. Much easier than STB at least.

[Anonymous User]

Assuming you want to be in the NYC market -- STB, White & Case, Allen & Overy, Arnold & Porter, Baker & McKenzie, Baker Botts, Foley & Lardner, Fox Rothschild, Mayer Brown.

Some of these will be a little bit of a stretch but not by much if you're closer to the 3.2 range.

lol I love how STB is just randomly thrown in there with all the other places. Looks like someone has beef with the firm.

STB was a joke? Like the other poster pointed out. But your defensiveness here is super telling. You remind me of the Kirkland NY associates on here who are pressed when someone points out that Kirkland NY is not like Kirkland Chicago, and will indeed take mediocre GPAs out of T14 lol. Try to be a little less insecure buddy. STB is a fine firm, TLS posters won't dilute its PreSTigE.

[Anonymous User]

STB is definitely the Penn of law firms. Or put another way, Penn is the STB of law schools.

[Anonymous User]

STB is definitely the Penn of law firms. Or put another way, Penn is the STB of law schools.

Makes sense.
Harvard = Cravath
Yale/Stanford = Wachtell
Columbia = Skadden
Chicago = Sullivan
NYU = DPW
Penn = STB

[Anonymous User]

No way.

Havard = Kirkland

Vault is a lagging indicator.

[Anonymous User]

No way.

Havard = Kirkland

Vault is a lagging indicator.

Well that was my point because we got U.S. News for law schools. Applies to Harvard and Cravath alike.

[Anonymous User]

STB is definitely the Penn of law firms. Or put another way, Penn is the STB of law schools.

Makes sense.
Harvard = Cravath
Yale/Stanford = Wachtell
Columbia = Skadden
Chicago = Sullivan
NYU = DPW
Penn = STB

found the skadden associate. Skadden=Gtown at best.