In-House Back to BigLaw Forum

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone else gone from in-house back to a firm? What was the transition like? Am I insane for even considering such a move?

For context, I'm currently in-house at a FAANG. I'm coming up on a year in May and I'm thinking of taking a fully remote Biglaw corporate position and moving back to my mid-size city home town to stack cash for a while and pay off my student loans.

[d39524s]

Understanding that biglaw comp is all-cash, and FAANG stock has taken a beating recently, is FAANG comp that much of a hit from biglaw? Or is it being remote that would allow you to save more?

[Anonymous User]

What are you unhappy about? Can it be fixed?

I made the move recently, mostly because of comp and also because I was bored. Think hard about how you can fix your current situation before moving, and also why you left biglaw in the first place. You may move back anyway, but it's much harder to go back in-house in the near term if you all of a sudden decide again that biglaw isn't for you.

[Anonymous User]

If you're at F or AAPL (no idea about NFLX comp) consider moving to AMZN/GOOG and negotiating a full remote situation if what you care about is stacking cash - it could be time to move on from your current company but a $300K+ TC 9-6 no weekends is possible and given that reality you'd have to drag me kicking and screaming back to a firm. Since you're at one of the others I assume you'd be a strong candidate for AMZN/GOOG.

What is your goal after stacking that cash? What do you think the extra time in biglaw would do for your skill development, etc. I think you can craft a story to tell future in house employers about your reasons for return but would it be better than a trajectory of biglaw -> in house 1 -> in house 2? If I was interviewing you, no. That said I wouldn't ding a great candidate because they went to biglaw again. But I assume I'll have to spend less time training someone if their current role is an in-house position.

Also, what's the reason to rush paying off student loans? Just the psychological weight of debt? Because at this point I'd be paying my monthly payment and stacking investments/other savings (e.g., to travel/enjoy life, to save for short/medium term goals). But I recognize that you may anticipate future expenses (e.g. obligations to care for aging relatives, childcare, etc.) increasing such that you can't make these monthly payments for the full term of the loan. You may also have personal reasons to want to move home, and that's also valid.

Apologies for questioning the premises of your question - just wanted to provide an alternate perspective to recommend not sacrificing your current work life balance (and presumably higher comp on a per hours worked basis) on the altar of maximizing your annual cash comp.

[nealric]

I haven't done, but I've seen colleagues do it. Both ended up back in-house eventually, but used the firm as a stepping stone. One left in-house to be biglaw counsel, then made partner (after switching firms), then parlayed that into a GC role. Another went to a firm for a little while then decided it wasn't what they wanted and went back in-house ASAP.

It really boils down to your practice area and what the firm's needs are. Now is probably a good time to do it given the lateral market right now.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. I really appreciate the perspectives. To address some questions and provide a bit more context:

I’m currently at AMZ. Everything is great, but I feel like I left BigLaw too early and I could’ve spent a few more yrs gaining experience which would open up more in-house opportunities. When I left I was a specialist for M&A and I’d like to return to gain some more general corporate experience specifically with start-ups and VC.

I was at a firm for almost 3 years and then went in-house. I wonder if it was the firm I hated or BigLaw generally? I didn’t give another firm a chance and went straight to AMZb

While AMZ is great, I do have a bit of FOMO given the BigLaw salary increases. I’ll need to help my parents in retirement so the extra cash would help and then once I left BigLaw again with the new skills I could maybe command a higher comp in-house. But obviously I’d be sacrificing a lot.

Here’s where you tell me all BigLaw firms are the same and this is ludicrous

[Anonymous User]

I haven't done, but I've seen colleagues do it. Both ended up back in-house eventually, but used the firm as a stepping stone. One left in-house to be biglaw counsel, then made partner (after switching firms), then parlayed that into a GC role. Another went to a firm for a little while then decided it wasn't what they wanted and went back in-house ASAP.

It really boils down to your practice area and what the firm's needs are. Now is probably a good time to do it given the lateral market right now.

This sounds like it's describing me! Left a firm for in-house after about 5 years, spent 3 years in-house and decided "maybe a different firm would be better," and left that firm after just over a year to go back in-house. The firm wound up being useful in a career sense as it let me move industries that would've been challenging had I tried to do it from my prior in-house role, but I was pretty miserable almost the entire time I was back in biglaw.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. I really appreciate the perspectives. To address some questions and provide a bit more context:

I’m currently at AMZ. Everything is great, but I feel like I left BigLaw too early and I could’ve spent a few more yrs gaining experience which would open up more in-house opportunities. When I left I was a specialist for M&A and I’d like to return to gain some more general corporate experience specifically with start-ups and VC.

I was at a firm for almost 3 years and then went in-house. I wonder if it was the firm I hated or BigLaw generally? I didn’t give another firm a chance and went straight to AMZb

While AMZ is great, I do have a bit of FOMO given the BigLaw salary increases. I’ll need to help my parents in retirement so the extra cash would help and then once I left BigLaw again with the new skills I could maybe command a higher comp in-house. But obviously I’d be sacrificing a lot.

Here’s where you tell me all BigLaw firms are the same and this is ludicrous

OP, we are in fairly similar situations, except I was general M&A and left after 3 years. Not at FAANG, but at a financial company that pays similar. I too have a bit of FOMO on salaries and wonder if a couple more years of big law training would prepare me better. With that said, if I do ever go back into big law it will be when I can at least go in as counsel. I just know that after a few years in-house I can't go back to having no control over schedule and billing 2,600 hours. But if you think you can handle it, then go for it. I wouldn't until your stock has vested though

[Anonymous User]

OP here. I really appreciate the perspectives. To address some questions and provide a bit more context:

I’m currently at AMZ. Everything is great, but I feel like I left BigLaw too early and I could’ve spent a few more yrs gaining experience which would open up more in-house opportunities. When I left I was a specialist for M&A and I’d like to return to gain some more general corporate experience specifically with start-ups and VC.

I was at a firm for almost 3 years and then went in-house. I wonder if it was the firm I hated or BigLaw generally? I didn’t give another firm a chance and went straight to AMZb

While AMZ is great, I do have a bit of FOMO given the BigLaw salary increases. I’ll need to help my parents in retirement so the extra cash would help and then once I left BigLaw again with the new skills I could maybe command a higher comp in-house. But obviously I’d be sacrificing a lot.

Here’s where you tell me all BigLaw firms are the same and this is ludicrous

2nd year interested in going in house at Amazon. How is the wlb? Lots of job opportunities for someone in their 2nd or 3rd year?

[Anonymous User]

I'm currently searching for remote in-house in tech, but I have seen zero FAANG postings that weren't explicitly on-site (seems to me there's a clear philosophical difference about what jobs they think are fine to be full remote when many other non-legal openings those companies have are open to full remote). Am I missing something?

[d39524s]

To those who are in-house at FAANG/tech companies that pay similarly, can you share some context around what comp looks like for a mid-level corporate associate?

[Anonymous User]

I'm currently searching for remote in-house in tech, but I have seen zero FAANG postings that weren't explicitly on-site (seems to me there's a clear philosophical difference about what jobs they think are fine to be full remote when many other non-legal openings those companies have are open to full remote). Am I missing something?

They don't typically advertise it, but know a few folks at a FAANG companies who haven't been to the office for over a year now.

[Anonymous User]

To those who are in-house at FAANG/tech companies that pay similarly, can you share some context around what comp looks like for a mid-level corporate associate?

At one of the FAANGs:

Position for 3rd year+ post law school - ~325-350k initial total comp; ~40k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Position for 7th/8th year+ - ~400-450k initial total comp; ~50k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Note total comp levels off and settles somewhat after the initial stock grants fully vests.

Re: remote - fully remote is in theory possible at this FAANG, but unlikely in practice until after years of tenure. Having said, no one has been asked to return to the office since the pandemic.

[Anonymous User]

To those who are in-house at FAANG/tech companies that pay similarly, can you share some context around what comp looks like for a mid-level corporate associate?

At one of the FAANGs:

Position for 3rd year+ post law school - ~325-350k initial total comp; ~40k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Position for 7th/8th year+ - ~400-450k initial total comp; ~50k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Note total comp levels off and settles somewhat after the initial stock grants fully vests.

Re: remote - fully remote is in theory possible at this FAANG, but unlikely in practice until after years of tenure. Having said, no one has been asked to return to the office since the pandemic.

I'm the anon who asked about full remote, and all the postings say everyone is remote during COVID but make it clear they're not permanently remote positions. After seeing these comp data points I'm now green with envy. Currently live in a low COL city for spouse's job and I'd ditch biglaw and never look back for a comp package like this.

Also curious about work life balance like the other anon because the jobs I see with comp packages like this are decidedly not chill places (PE firms and the like).

[Anonymous User]

To those who are in-house at FAANG/tech companies that pay similarly, can you share some context around what comp looks like for a mid-level corporate associate?

At one of the FAANGs:

Position for 3rd year+ post law school - ~325-350k initial total comp; ~40k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Position for 7th/8th year+ - ~400-450k initial total comp; ~50k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Note total comp levels off and settles somewhat after the initial stock grants fully vests.

Re: remote - fully remote is in theory possible at this FAANG, but unlikely in practice until after years of tenure. Having said, no one has been asked to return to the office since the pandemic.

Is this real? Can you tell us a bit more about your background? This does not line up at all what I've seen in the Typical In-House Salary Package for Junior Lawyer thread (data points in there are not at all limited to junior lawyers). viewtopic.php?f=62&t=279727

[Anonymous User]

To those who are in-house at FAANG/tech companies that pay similarly, can you share some context around what comp looks like for a mid-level corporate associate?

At one of the FAANGs:

Position for 3rd year+ post law school - ~325-350k initial total comp; ~40k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Position for 7th/8th year+ - ~400-450k initial total comp; ~50k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Note total comp levels off and settles somewhat after the initial stock grants fully vests.

Re: remote - fully remote is in theory possible at this FAANG, but unlikely in practice until after years of tenure. Having said, no one has been asked to return to the office since the pandemic.

Is this real? Can you tell us a bit more about your background? This does not line up at all what I've seen in the Typical In-House Salary Package for Junior Lawyer thread (data points in there are not at all limited to junior lawyers). viewtopic.php?f=62&t=279727

I’ve talked to a google recruiter before, they’re quite upfront about compensation, and this is line with the numbers I was quoted. Can also confirm that it’s definitely not this high at some of the other FAANGs (sadly for me).

[Anonymous User]

To those who are in-house at FAANG/tech companies that pay similarly, can you share some context around what comp looks like for a mid-level corporate associate?

At one of the FAANGs:

Position for 3rd year+ post law school - ~325-350k initial total comp; ~40k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Position for 7th/8th year+ - ~400-450k initial total comp; ~50k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Note total comp levels off and settles somewhat after the initial stock grants fully vests.

Re: remote - fully remote is in theory possible at this FAANG, but unlikely in practice until after years of tenure. Having said, no one has been asked to return to the office since the pandemic.

Is this real? Can you tell us a bit more about your background? This does not line up at all what I've seen in the Typical In-House Salary Package for Junior Lawyer thread (data points in there are not at all limited to junior lawyers). viewtopic.php?f=62&t=279727

I’ve talked to a google recruiter before, they’re quite upfront about compensation, and this is line with the numbers I was quoted. Can also confirm that it’s definitely not this high at some of the other FAANGs (sadly for me).

That sounds right for Google, which I think pays the most of the FAANGs.

For FB, for a Lead Counsel position (~5-9 years of experience), based on conversations with recruiters, total comp is roughly $300k: ~$220k base, 15% bonus (before personal/company multipliers), and ~$175k initial equity grant (vesting over 4 years).
AGC (10+ years of experience) starting total comp is roughly $350k, I think.

[Anonymous User]

I just did this.

I was 1 year biglaw firm A, 2.5 years biglaw B, 1.5 years in-house at finance firm (non-NYC market).

TC pre move was $225k. Comp now is biglaw scale so $325k cash + bonus if I meet hours + I got a signing bonus.

I wanted extreme flexibility, firm was hiring for any of their offices for practice group. My local office has no one I work with so I can generally come and go as I please. It is a bit weird not having met anyone face to face (and unlike in-house no one likes to zoom at all so I truly haven't even seen some), but so far been getting decent amount of work.

I'm not trying to make partner or anything, but I realized it is way easier to climb in-house (at least in finance) by moving around. Upward mobility was basically non-existent unless someone above left or died, so if I jump back in to in-house world another 2-3 years I will probably be in a much better position longer term.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

What was your signing bonus if you don’t mind me asking?

How did you ultimately decided going back to BigLaw was for you? My biggest fear is that I’m giving up my WLB for 2-3 years of hell like I experienced at my last firm or I become a doc review minion.

[1styearlateral]

To those who are in-house at FAANG/tech companies that pay similarly, can you share some context around what comp looks like for a mid-level corporate associate?

At one of the FAANGs:

Position for 3rd year+ post law school - ~325-350k initial total comp; ~40k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Position for 7th/8th year+ - ~400-450k initial total comp; ~50k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Note total comp levels off and settles somewhat after the initial stock grants fully vests.

Re: remote - fully remote is in theory possible at this FAANG, but unlikely in practice until after years of tenure. Having said, no one has been asked to return to the office since the pandemic.

These YOY raises seem incredulous.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

What was your signing bonus if you don’t mind me asking?

How did you ultimately decided going back to BigLaw was for you? My biggest fear is that I’m giving up my WLB for 2-3 years of hell like I experienced at my last firm or I become a doc review minion.

I moved over in November. I was due a ~20k year-end bonus in December in-house so they matched that plus added on another ~15k. So technically it was ~35k total but really only ~15k new. I didn't negotiate that they offered it, but I've heard signing bonuses vary greatly depending on practice area, firm need, etc. So can go from nothing to $100k+. I also didn't use a recruiter I just applied on their website.

Going back was combination of realizing I did not have a lot of upward mobility in my current role and frankly, I wanted the money. In the past year I've gotten married, bought a house and plan on having kids in the next 2-3 years. That shit adds up. Plus when I eventually move back in-house I will be looking at more senior roles. My in-house raises were going to 4-5%/yr, with maybe a 10% raise after 5 years.

Maybe experiences will vary. My practice area isn't M&A and I've been getting decent work. I've found it has been similar to my first lateral move where you just need to prove yourself to some partners on initial things and get used to their working styles before they give you bigger ticket items. Helps my firm is super busy and they just can't spare me doing BS work.

[Anonymous User]

To those who are in-house at FAANG/tech companies that pay similarly, can you share some context around what comp looks like for a mid-level corporate associate?

At one of the FAANGs:

Position for 3rd year+ post law school - ~325-350k initial total comp; ~40k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Position for 7th/8th year+ - ~400-450k initial total comp; ~50k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Note total comp levels off and settles somewhat after the initial stock grants fully vests.

Re: remote - fully remote is in theory possible at this FAANG, but unlikely in practice until after years of tenure. Having said, no one has been asked to return to the office since the pandemic.

These YOY raises seem incredulous.

[Anonymous User]

To those who are in-house at FAANG/tech companies that pay similarly, can you share some context around what comp looks like for a mid-level corporate associate?

At one of the FAANGs:

Position for 3rd year+ post law school - ~325-350k initial total comp; ~40k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Position for 7th/8th year+ - ~400-450k initial total comp; ~50k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Note total comp levels off and settles somewhat after the initial stock grants fully vests.

Re: remote - fully remote is in theory possible at this FAANG, but unlikely in practice until after years of tenure. Having said, no one has been asked to return to the office since the pandemic.

Is this real? Can you tell us a bit more about your background? This does not line up at all what I've seen in the Typical In-House Salary Package for Junior Lawyer thread (data points in there are not at all limited to junior lawyers). viewtopic.php?f=62&t=279727

Sounds high. Almost certain these numbers aren't the norm for Amazon.

[Anonymous User]

To those who are in-house at FAANG/tech companies that pay similarly, can you share some context around what comp looks like for a mid-level corporate associate?

At one of the FAANGs:

Position for 3rd year+ post law school - ~325-350k initial total comp; ~40k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Position for 7th/8th year+ - ~400-450k initial total comp; ~50k increase each year thereafter until promo to next level

Note total comp levels off and settles somewhat after the initial stock grants fully vests.

Re: remote - fully remote is in theory possible at this FAANG, but unlikely in practice until after years of tenure. Having said, no one has been asked to return to the office since the pandemic.

This is the previous poster again since there are some questions about this.

Also to the OP, just from a comp perspective, I don't think it necessarily makes sense to go to Biglaw if you see yourself going back in-house again the future since the in-house experience is more relevant and those years-in-role experience will help you ramp your pay faster in house most of the time than your initial offer coming in from the outside again. Once you factor in the greater hours worked at a firm, in-house probably comes out ahead. You may instead want to focus on tech. companies that do offer fully remote or look for FAANG offices (there are usually a fair number of them) at a relatively low COL locale.

Anyway, yes, as people alluded to, the comp numbers are from G. I am not as familiar with the other FAANG and their pay structure.

Second, to explain the raises a bit more - typically in-house compensation at a tech. company would involve three components: base salary, bonus, and stock. All three components in turn could be adjusted upwards based on your performance each year. As you join the legal team at a certain level, the expectation is that you will be promoted in a few years. As such, your performance rating will typically also adjust upwards every year you are tenured at your current role/level.

Additionally, you will receive refreshers every year that grants extra stock on top of the original stock you are granted. These refreshers will typically vest over four years (like your original stock grant).

To give a concrete example then, let's say you join the company as a 3rd year and your initial compensation structure is as follows:

230k base, 20% target bonus based on normal performance, 240k in stocks (RSUs) vesting over four years.

That means your first year comp will be (assuming no sign-on bonus and a "normal" performance): 230k+ 44k (220k x 20%) [paid at the end of your first year] + 60k (240k/4) = 334k

By the end of your first year and entering your second year, you likely will perform better at your job (remember there's an expected upwards trajectory to be promoted to the next level in a few years). That means your performance rating will also increase. So your compensation could now look like this:

Base: 230k + 'standard' salary increase (3-4%) x the good performance multiplier = 230k + 8k = 238k
Bonus (paid at the end of the second year): 238k x (target bonus) 20% x good performance multiplier = 238k x 22% = 52k
Stock: 60k from second year of your initial grant + refresher equity. Let's say you get something typical like 120k refresher granted over 4 years. Your total stock comp for the second year then is 60k + 120k/4 = 90k

Total Comp after the second year = 238k + 52k + 90K = 380k (an increase of 46k over the previous year).

Now obviously, your comp is not going to increase at 40k-50k every year indefinitely. First, your initial stocks will finish vesting after four years and as you can see it is typically much larger than what can be replenished by your refreshers. Second, while you can still get material increases from being promoted every few years, eventually the promotion track also ends. At that point you'd then settle into your terminal salary range (which at mid-high six figures is not terrible).

Note, this calculation does not account for stock appreciation, which could also considerably bump your comp up YOY (talk to folks who joined Tesla a few years ago). However, if the stock moves down, your total comp will also be negatively impacted.