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Sf3722

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Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Sf3722 » Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:11 pm

Just got back first quarter grades for 1L, and have a 177.73 GPA. Not 100% sure where that puts me (median for classes is 177, but I think GPA medians might be a tad higher- If anybody knows, please let me know), but I believe I’m around median.

What are job prospects like around median? Are V10 firms still doable (I understand this might not be the best measure of success, but using as a proxy for now)? Are more competitive markets like Chicago and LA still feasible assuming no ties? Should I expect to land in NYC most likely? I’m transactional focused, and will probably try to work in M&A.

Also, anybody at UChicago have any success stories of people going from median to top 30%ish by end of 1L? Would love some inspiration. Not heartbroken over my grades, but would love to improve.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:28 am

Sf3722 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:11 pm
Just got back first quarter grades for 1L, and have a 177.73 GPA. Not 100% sure where that puts me (median for classes is 177, but I think GPA medians might be a tad higher- If anybody knows, please let me know), but I believe I’m around median.

What are job prospects like around median? Are V10 firms still doable (I understand this might not be the best measure of success, but using as a proxy for now)? Are more competitive markets like Chicago and LA still feasible assuming no ties? Should I expect to land in NYC most likely? I’m transactional focused, and will probably try to work in M&A.

Also, anybody at UChicago have any success stories of people going from median to top 30%ish by end of 1L? Would love some inspiration. Not heartbroken over my grades, but would love to improve.
NY is probably more likely than Chicago having no ties in Chicago, but absolutely doesn't mean you have no chance in Chicago--UChicago carries a fair amount of weight in the large Chicago firms. Just given the sheer number of people they're taking, Kirkland and some of the other less selective but still top firms are definitely possible at median, especially since you are saying that you want corporate.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:56 am

Current 2L

You're likely above median (to the extent that knowledge eases your piece of mind), but keep in mind that you only have 25% of your grades. Keep up your grind and strive to do well these next couple of quarters.

If things literally stay put (they won't), you'll be just fine for V10 NY sans Wachtell.
Chicago can be a bit random, but not such a longshot particularly with a transactional tilt. Don't count on Kirkland/Sidley but don't count them out either.
LA, in my experience, was even more random. If you have a solid reason for 1. why LA and 2. why whatever firm you're interviewing with, it's also not impossible, though still harder than Chicago.

And for your inspiration: I was a dead 177 after Fall Quarter, got my grades up to be ~178.7ish by the end of 1L and will be working in Chicago/LA (litigation). You still have 75% of the year left, work smart and you can get up to the same spot or better.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:05 am

You will be fine.

I ended 1L with something like a 176.4. Bid NYC for OCI, be yourself in those interviews, don't forget to indicate your interest in transactional work and you will have your pick of top firms. Spend the summer/pre-OCI hustling for Chicago (or other appealing markets) jobs to the extent that's important rather than using bids on them.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:29 am

Sf3722 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:11 pm
Just got back first quarter grades for 1L, and have a 177.73 GPA. Not 100% sure where that puts me (median for classes is 177, but I think GPA medians might be a tad higher- If anybody knows, please let me know), but I believe I’m around median.

What are job prospects like around median? Are V10 firms still doable (I understand this might not be the best measure of success, but using as a proxy for now)? Are more competitive markets like Chicago and LA still feasible assuming no ties? Should I expect to land in NYC most likely? I’m transactional focused, and will probably try to work in M&A.

Also, anybody at UChicago have any success stories of people going from median to top 30%ish by end of 1L? Would love some inspiration. Not heartbroken over my grades, but would love to improve.
One of my friends got a 173 in fall, putting him/her significantly below median but then did super well in spring including a 184 and ended up with a 179 average. So yes it can be done. Your grades are fine right now though so I wouldn’t stress.

Chicago is a slightly more competitive market because a lot of people are from the Midwest and want to stay in Chicago, but you don’t need ties. LA is a finicky market because only the LA-based firms have decent class sizes and the other firms have tiny classes. LA is not a transactional focused market though and I’d look at SV/SF if you want CA.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:05 am
You will be fine.

I ended 1L with something like a 176.4. Bid NYC for OCI, be yourself in those interviews, don't forget to indicate your interest in transactional work and you will have your pick of top firms. Spend the summer/pre-OCI hustling for Chicago (or other appealing markets) jobs to the extent that's important rather than using bids on them.
Completely agree with this. (Recentish) UChicago grad that got a 174/175 first quarter then honestly really only downhill from there including two 173s, so probably not the anecdote you want but... I targeted CA market and had offers from a whole bunch of places including STB and KE (since you asked about V10). Also had multiple NYC offers. I actually didn't get any offers in LA despite targeting it somewhat, but I think that's because I had a lot of pre-OCI bay offers/targeted that market much more heavily. Also agree with the poster who said the market is finnicky there -- there really isn't a ton of transactional work there compared to the Bay. While you probably won't get Gibson/Cravath/Wachtell/other boutique-y lit places at median you will 1000% get a job.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:00 pm

I’m not at UofC but I do work in Chicago - I agree that you don’t need ties in Chicago but it certainly helps and you’ll definitely be asked in interviews why Chicago. “I came here for law school and really like the city” is probably enough. But as others have said, NY is always easier.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:38 pm

Median at U Chicago gives you a shot at basically every firm in the V25 outside of Wachtell. Stop worrying.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by stickershocked » Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:05 am
You will be fine.

I ended 1L with something like a 176.4. Bid NYC for OCI, be yourself in those interviews, don't forget to indicate your interest in transactional work and you will have your pick of top firms. Spend the summer/pre-OCI hustling for Chicago (or other appealing markets) jobs to the extent that's important rather than using bids on them.
This. It's really difficult to overstate how great the need is for transactional associates right now.

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Sf3722

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Sf3722 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:38 pm
Median at U Chicago gives you a shot at basically every firm in the V25 outside of Wachtell. Stop worrying.
I appreciate it! My post wasn’t meant to imply that I’m biting my nails over getting a job. Was just curious what the options are at median. Thanks for the insights!

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Sf3722 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:29 am
Sf3722 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:11 pm
Just got back first quarter grades for 1L, and have a 177.73 GPA. Not 100% sure where that puts me (median for classes is 177, but I think GPA medians might be a tad higher- If anybody knows, please let me know), but I believe I’m around median.

What are job prospects like around median? Are V10 firms still doable (I understand this might not be the best measure of success, but using as a proxy for now)? Are more competitive markets like Chicago and LA still feasible assuming no ties? Should I expect to land in NYC most likely? I’m transactional focused, and will probably try to work in M&A.

Also, anybody at UChicago have any success stories of people going from median to top 30%ish by end of 1L? Would love some inspiration. Not heartbroken over my grades, but would love to improve.
One of my friends got a 173 in fall, putting him/her significantly below median but then did super well in spring including a 184 and ended up with a 179 average. So yes it can be done. Your grades are fine right now though so I wouldn’t stress.

Chicago is a slightly more competitive market because a lot of people are from the Midwest and want to stay in Chicago, but you don’t need ties. LA is a finicky market because only the LA-based firms have decent class sizes and the other firms have tiny classes. LA is not a transactional focused market though and I’d look at SV/SF if you want CA.
That’s awesome for your friend! Hoping to have similar growth!

Bummer about LA. Not a huge fan of Northern CA, but love SoCal.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:43 pm

how do u feel about roofing?

Sf3722

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Sf3722 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:43 pm
how do u feel about roofing?
Not my first choice, but I need something to service my debt.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:00 am

Sf3722 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:12 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:29 am
Sf3722 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:11 pm
Just got back first quarter grades for 1L, and have a 177.73 GPA. Not 100% sure where that puts me (median for classes is 177, but I think GPA medians might be a tad higher- If anybody knows, please let me know), but I believe I’m around median.

What are job prospects like around median? Are V10 firms still doable (I understand this might not be the best measure of success, but using as a proxy for now)? Are more competitive markets like Chicago and LA still feasible assuming no ties? Should I expect to land in NYC most likely? I’m transactional focused, and will probably try to work in M&A.

Also, anybody at UChicago have any success stories of people going from median to top 30%ish by end of 1L? Would love some inspiration. Not heartbroken over my grades, but would love to improve.
One of my friends got a 173 in fall, putting him/her significantly below median but then did super well in spring including a 184 and ended up with a 179 average. So yes it can be done. Your grades are fine right now though so I wouldn’t stress.

Chicago is a slightly more competitive market because a lot of people are from the Midwest and want to stay in Chicago, but you don’t need ties. LA is a finicky market because only the LA-based firms have decent class sizes and the other firms have tiny classes. LA is not a transactional focused market though and I’d look at SV/SF if you want CA.
That’s awesome for your friend! Hoping to have similar growth!

Bummer about LA. Not a huge fan of Northern CA, but love SoCal.
Corporate options exit in SoCal, just less of the ECVC work. Primarily a litigation market but for example Latham does a ton in SoCal.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:11 pm

To the poster above, one of your friends got a 173 in a class in the fall or a 173 avg??

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:23 pm

Is there any way to figure out class rank? If the median is 177, is there any way to figure out 50th percentile, or are we just stuck?

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:23 pm
Is there any way to figure out class rank? If the median is 177, is there any way to figure out 50th percentile, or are we just stuck?
No way. And Chicago takes that prohibition very seriously; they won't even give estimates.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:35 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:23 pm
Is there any way to figure out class rank? If the median is 177, is there any way to figure out 50th percentile, or are we just stuck?
No way. And Chicago takes that prohibition very seriously; they won't even give estimates.
Pretty sure unless you’re in the top or bottom 5-10 people it would make no difference and potentially actually be more of a detriment. (I hope) no one is gonna be like “so I see that you’re 47th in your class” (which would be around the 75th percentile) and actually register that as a good thing (they will register a couple 180+s though). Not ranking may be the one merciful thing the law school does

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:28 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:35 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:23 pm
Is there any way to figure out class rank? If the median is 177, is there any way to figure out 50th percentile, or are we just stuck?
No way. And Chicago takes that prohibition very seriously; they won't even give estimates.
Pretty sure unless you’re in the top or bottom 5-10 people it would make no difference and potentially actually be more of a detriment. (I hope) no one is gonna be like “so I see that you’re 47th in your class” (which would be around the 75th percentile) and actually register that as a good thing (they will register a couple 180+s though). Not ranking may be the one merciful thing the law school does
It's an amazing aspect of the school and one that I think gets underappreciated by prospectives considering Chicago vs. other T6s / T14s. Not having class rank significantly cuts down on the "competition w/ your classmates" aspect of law school (which is already somewhat muted vs. baseline since you're at a T6 where, per the discussion in this thread, your job prospects are pretty great vs. some unfortunate person scrambling to make top-10 in his class at a third-tier school to be able to get a job). Also throw in the fact that many interviewers can't even read a Chicago transcript because of the grading system lol

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:26 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:34 am
It's an amazing aspect of the school and one that I think gets underappreciated by prospectives considering Chicago vs. other T6s / T14s. Not having class rank significantly cuts down on the "competition w/ your classmates" aspect of law school (which is already somewhat muted vs. baseline since you're at a T6 where, per the discussion in this thread, your job prospects are pretty great vs. some unfortunate person scrambling to make top-10 in his class at a third-tier school to be able to get a job). Also throw in the fact that many interviewers can't even read a Chicago transcript because of the grading system lol
Not ranking is definitely a nice feature … but it’s hardly unique to Chicago, right? I go to a T6 that has normal letter grades but does not rank students — and doesn’t even calculate or display GPAs on transcripts (as it appears Chicago might, unless OP arrived at the 177.73 by hand).

I do agree that the arcane-ness of the Chicago grading system could work in y’alls favor, though.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:26 am
Not ranking is definitely a nice feature … but it’s hardly unique to Chicago, right?
FWIW UVA doesn't give class rank, either (unless you're at the tippy top--I think there's some informal communications to the top clerkship candidates about where they stand). In fact, unlike other schools, we don't have any Latin honors upon graduation (aside from order of the coif). That said, when I was there most people knew the VLR grade-on GPA cutoff, which told you where the top 10% or so was.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:26 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:34 am
It's an amazing aspect of the school and one that I think gets underappreciated by prospectives considering Chicago vs. other T6s / T14s. Not having class rank significantly cuts down on the "competition w/ your classmates" aspect of law school (which is already somewhat muted vs. baseline since you're at a T6 where, per the discussion in this thread, your job prospects are pretty great vs. some unfortunate person scrambling to make top-10 in his class at a third-tier school to be able to get a job). Also throw in the fact that many interviewers can't even read a Chicago transcript because of the grading system lol
Not ranking is definitely a nice feature … but it’s hardly unique to Chicago, right? I go to a T6 that has normal letter grades but does not rank students — and doesn’t even calculate or display GPAs on transcripts (as it appears Chicago might, unless OP arrived at the 177.73 by hand).

I do agree that the arcane-ness of the Chicago grading system could work in y’alls favor, though.
I can promise that the arcaneness of the grading system does NOT work in anyone's favor. Interviewers either know how to translate it or they find it confusing and kind of grumble about it. It's neutral to mildly harmful.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:26 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:34 am
It's an amazing aspect of the school and one that I think gets underappreciated by prospectives considering Chicago vs. other T6s / T14s. Not having class rank significantly cuts down on the "competition w/ your classmates" aspect of law school (which is already somewhat muted vs. baseline since you're at a T6 where, per the discussion in this thread, your job prospects are pretty great vs. some unfortunate person scrambling to make top-10 in his class at a third-tier school to be able to get a job). Also throw in the fact that many interviewers can't even read a Chicago transcript because of the grading system lol
Not ranking is definitely a nice feature … but it’s hardly unique to Chicago, right? I go to a T6 that has normal letter grades but does not rank students — and doesn’t even calculate or display GPAs on transcripts (as it appears Chicago might, unless OP arrived at the 177.73 by hand).

I do agree that the arcane-ness of the Chicago grading system could work in y’alls favor, though.
I can promise that the arcaneness of the grading system does NOT work in anyone's favor. Interviewers either know how to translate it or they find it confusing and kind of grumble about it. It's neutral to mildly harmful.
Do you say this as an interviewer? I agree that it shouldn't be hard for firms to translate, and OCI medians suggest the same.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:41 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:26 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:34 am
It's an amazing aspect of the school and one that I think gets underappreciated by prospectives considering Chicago vs. other T6s / T14s. Not having class rank significantly cuts down on the "competition w/ your classmates" aspect of law school (which is already somewhat muted vs. baseline since you're at a T6 where, per the discussion in this thread, your job prospects are pretty great vs. some unfortunate person scrambling to make top-10 in his class at a third-tier school to be able to get a job). Also throw in the fact that many interviewers can't even read a Chicago transcript because of the grading system lol
Not ranking is definitely a nice feature … but it’s hardly unique to Chicago, right? I go to a T6 that has normal letter grades but does not rank students — and doesn’t even calculate or display GPAs on transcripts (as it appears Chicago might, unless OP arrived at the 177.73 by hand).

I do agree that the arcane-ness of the Chicago grading system could work in y’alls favor, though.
I can promise that the arcaneness of the grading system does NOT work in anyone's favor. Interviewers either know how to translate it or they find it confusing and kind of grumble about it. It's neutral to mildly harmful.
Not my experience. I found when I was interviewing the "arcaneness" (good word) of the grading system made most of my interviewers do some version of "this is--gobbedlygook, but you're at U Chicago and you do {x} {y} {z} so obviously you have great credentials." This was so even at V10s. It's probably a little bit of a hit to people in the top 10% of the class who really wish they could drive home the point of how awesome they are but I feel like it's a mild positive for most of the rest of the class, trending toward a significant positive for people with crappier grades.

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Re: Median at UChicago job prospects

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:15 pm

You'll do fine. If you want a V10, just make sure you bid STB NYC as a backup. They'll probably take anyone from Chicago.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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