Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

6th year on current scale lockstep makes $535,000 with special bonuses. Most good firms will add $30,000 on top at least for above market hours of 2300-2400. Generally only top bucket will get VP promotion (25%) and even there you are likely to get between 500 and 600 for the next 2 years.

Honestly anyone with a pulse gets promoted to VP

Usually I make significantly more than my biglaw peers in the same class year

This year I made a bonkers amount more

Assume your at a BB level shop?

And would you make the switch again considering job security? Or in other words do you think the possibility of substantially more pay is worth the greater possibility of getting axed in recession? I’ve been pondering a transition for the better part of a year, but can’t decide…

[Anonymous User]

Don’t think any more matching coming. It’s too soon since the last match.

Stratification of different salary scales is solidifying: those who can afford to pay market and those who pay below market.

Expecting Milbank to be flooded with lateral applicants.

if the market is stratified then what is exactly, market?

[Anonymous User]

Wonder if DPW management are waiting for January billing numbers to see whether it's going to be a raise or match.

With the whole minor market 'correction' type thing going on.

[AureliusCapital]

Wonder if DPW management are waiting for January billing numbers to see whether it's going to be a raise or match.

With the whole minor market 'correction' type thing going on.

January is always the slowest month of the year for most people. Pretty unfair.

[Anonymous User]

I just did 320 in January. Where’s my match or beat, DPW?

[Anonymous User]

Wonder if DPW management are waiting for January billing numbers to see whether it's going to be a raise or match.

With the whole minor market 'correction' type thing going on.

January is always the slowest month of the year for most people. Pretty unfair.

Yes but they can predict what January 2022 would look like, and maybe they are seeing if this particular January didn't meet (or maybe even exceeded) expectations.

I'm just saying that it makes sense to wait a couple more days to collect the data, rather than pushing out a raise asap. There's not really a rush to do this if they are going to make it retroactive as long as peer firms wait for DPW to make the big move.

Idk bro I'm just coping

[Anonymous User]

People need to remember that DPW behaved exactly this way when year-end bonuses were coming out. They took two weeks to the day to come out with a response to Cravath (where they topped the market with a special bonus). To anxious associates it felt interminable but maybe that's just the speed at which DPW's management committee moves.

I am optimistic that DPW is going to come out with a Milbank match and announce at least a spring scale, maybe a spring/fall scale. It would be the "right" thing to do from a number of perspectives and it would be a very DPW thing to do, further solidifying their reputation. The longer they take to announce, the more (mildly) optimistic I get.

[DoveBodyWash]

Today is the day

[njdevils2626]

Today is the day

DBW is close enough to DPW, so this seems authoritative enough to me

[Anonymous User]

January was a busy month, for a January. But idk why they would look at one month for this? They have the cash sitting around.

Also can we please not say things like "today is the day" unless you have knowledge

[Anonymous User]

January was a busy month, for a January. But idk why they would look at one month for this? They have the cash sitting around.

Also can we please not say things like "today is the day" unless you have knowledge

Okay fine. But tomorrow is DEFINITELY the day.

[Anonymous User]

The ATL "scorecard" (keeps track of firms that announce a Milbank match; link: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/biglaw- ... cker-2022/) adds to the comedy of this point that DPW essentially controls the market. You can see an initial set of firms, more in the bottom half of the V50, rushing to match either the Friday or Monday after Milbank's announcement on Thursday. And then, after that ... basically crickets. It's like the market realized DPW wasn't going to do a quick match and so everyone else backed off after the initial excitement.

[ElCuervo]

The ATL "scorecard" (keeps track of firms that announce a Milbank match; link: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/biglaw- ... cker-2022/) adds to the comedy of this point that DPW essentially controls the market. You can see an initial set of firms, more in the bottom half of the V50, rushing to match either the Friday or Monday after Milbank's announcement on Thursday. And then, after that ... basically crickets. It's like the market realized DPW wasn't going to do a quick match and so everyone else backed off after the initial excitement.

Yeah, at this point DPW flexes as much by freezing virtually the entire market until they decide people get paid as they do out of actually raising.

[Anonymous User]

The ATL "scorecard" (keeps track of firms that announce a Milbank match; link: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/biglaw- ... cker-2022/) adds to the comedy of this point that DPW essentially controls the market. You can see an initial set of firms, more in the bottom half of the V50, rushing to match either the Friday or Monday after Milbank's announcement on Thursday. And then, after that ... basically crickets. It's like the market realized DPW wasn't going to do a quick match and so everyone else backed off after the initial excitement.

Yeah, at this point DPW flexes as much by freezing virtually the entire market until they decide people get paid as they do out of actually raising.

This will only last if they raise again, though. If they only match, then firms won't feel the need to wait for them next time.

[ElCuervo]

The ATL "scorecard" (keeps track of firms that announce a Milbank match; link: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/biglaw- ... cker-2022/) adds to the comedy of this point that DPW essentially controls the market. You can see an initial set of firms, more in the bottom half of the V50, rushing to match either the Friday or Monday after Milbank's announcement on Thursday. And then, after that ... basically crickets. It's like the market realized DPW wasn't going to do a quick match and so everyone else backed off after the initial excitement.

Yeah, at this point DPW flexes as much by freezing virtually the entire market until they decide people get paid as they do out of actually raising.

This will only last if they raise again, though. If they only match, then firms won't feel the need to wait for them next time.

I agree.

It does seem that there's some risk in holding it open this long that another well-positioned firm will swoop in and steal the thunder by raising enough that DPW doesn't raise the raise, or enough that any subsequent raise DPW would be willing to make would just look petty. And I think if another firm did that immediately, before DPW, there could be a pretty swift domino of matches that would make this whole thing bow up in DPW's face. But I guess DPW would perhaps counter that situation with bonuses.

[Anonymous User]

The ATL "scorecard" (keeps track of firms that announce a Milbank match; link: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/biglaw- ... cker-2022/) adds to the comedy of this point that DPW essentially controls the market. You can see an initial set of firms, more in the bottom half of the V50, rushing to match either the Friday or Monday after Milbank's announcement on Thursday. And then, after that ... basically crickets. It's like the market realized DPW wasn't going to do a quick match and so everyone else backed off after the initial excitement.

This “control” is both (A) a real thing, but also (B) kind of silly. It’s silly because any other firm could come swooping in today — or last week, for that matter — with a general approximation of what everybody expects DPW to do (+$5-10K on top of Milbank, maybe with some kind of special bonus schedule) and thereby disprove that “control.” That firm would put their name back in conversation, and what’s the worse that would happen … DPW one-ups you?

STB, are you listening?

[Anonymous User]

The ATL "scorecard" (keeps track of firms that announce a Milbank match; link: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/biglaw- ... cker-2022/) adds to the comedy of this point that DPW essentially controls the market. You can see an initial set of firms, more in the bottom half of the V50, rushing to match either the Friday or Monday after Milbank's announcement on Thursday. And then, after that ... basically crickets. It's like the market realized DPW wasn't going to do a quick match and so everyone else backed off after the initial excitement.

This “control” is both (A) a real thing, but also (B) kind of silly. It’s silly because any other firm could come swooping in today — or last week, for that matter — with a general approximation of what everybody expects DPW to do (+$5-10K on top of Milbank, maybe with some kind of special bonus schedule) and thereby disprove that “control.” That firm would put their name back in conversation, and what’s the worse that would happen … DPW one-ups you?

STB, are you listening?

Any v20 firm could do this. It's weird.

[Anonymous User]

The ATL "scorecard" (keeps track of firms that announce a Milbank match; link: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/biglaw- ... cker-2022/) adds to the comedy of this point that DPW essentially controls the market. You can see an initial set of firms, more in the bottom half of the V50, rushing to match either the Friday or Monday after Milbank's announcement on Thursday. And then, after that ... basically crickets. It's like the market realized DPW wasn't going to do a quick match and so everyone else backed off after the initial excitement.

This “control” is both (A) a real thing, but also (B) kind of silly. It’s silly because any other firm could come swooping in today — or last week, for that matter — with a general approximation of what everybody expects DPW to do (+$5-10K on top of Milbank, maybe with some kind of special bonus schedule) and thereby disprove that “control.” That firm would put their name back in conversation, and what’s the worse that would happen … DPW one-ups you?

STB, are you listening?

Any v20 firm could do this. It's weird.

Let me offer a little counterpoint. Being a compensation leader like we're talking about involves both having the right finances and the right culture. Emphasis both. There are some firms that have the finances to pull it off but just don't have the culture--Kirkland seems like the perfect example of this; they'll match any market move but their partnership never, ever initiates a round of raises or bonuses, despite being uber wealthy. And on the other side of the coin, I'm sure there are plenty of firms in the V100 that have a mentality of sharing the wealth and valuing their employees through compensation but simply don't have the financial horsepower to be able to set market in biglaw.

So are DPW / Milbank unique? No. But there also aren't necessarily a bunch of other firms who could fill their shoes right now as far as having *both* the characteristics I mention above. So yeah, STB could swoop in and "do what DPW does." But will they? Does their partnership care enough in 2022? Not sure.

[Anonymous User]

The ATL "scorecard" (keeps track of firms that announce a Milbank match; link: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/biglaw- ... cker-2022/) adds to the comedy of this point that DPW essentially controls the market. You can see an initial set of firms, more in the bottom half of the V50, rushing to match either the Friday or Monday after Milbank's announcement on Thursday. And then, after that ... basically crickets. It's like the market realized DPW wasn't going to do a quick match and so everyone else backed off after the initial excitement.

This “control” is both (A) a real thing, but also (B) kind of silly. It’s silly because any other firm could come swooping in today — or last week, for that matter — with a general approximation of what everybody expects DPW to do (+$5-10K on top of Milbank, maybe with some kind of special bonus schedule) and thereby disprove that “control.” That firm would put their name back in conversation, and what’s the worse that would happen … DPW one-ups you?

STB, are you listening?

Any v20 firm could do this. It's weird.

Let me offer a little counterpoint. Being a compensation leader like we're talking about involves both having the right finances and the right culture. Emphasis both. There are some firms that have the finances to pull it off but just don't have the culture--Kirkland seems like the perfect example of this; they'll match any market move but their partnership never, ever initiates a round of raises or bonuses, despite being uber wealthy. And on the other side of the coin, I'm sure there are plenty of firms in the V100 that have a mentality of sharing the wealth and valuing their employees through compensation but simply don't have the financial horsepower to be able to set market in biglaw.

So are DPW / Milbank unique? No. But there also aren't necessarily a bunch of other firms who could fill their shoes right now as far as having *both* the characteristics I mention above. So yeah, STB could swoop in and "do what DPW does." But will they? Does their partnership care enough in 2022? Not sure.

I recently lateraled to DPW and from the time I've been here, I get the impression that DPW actually cares about its associates as people and wants us to be happy (as happy as you can be in a job like this). How would you describe the culture, from your perspective?

[Anonymous User]

Akin Gump just had an associates town hall - they basically reported that partnership said they’re not raising right now but does consider itself a competitive firm and will consider raising depending on the movement of others… basically waiting for DPW.

I was also half paying attention to the town hall so if any AGNY folks have corrections pls feel free to fix

[Anonymous User]

The ATL "scorecard" (keeps track of firms that announce a Milbank match; link: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/biglaw- ... cker-2022/) adds to the comedy of this point that DPW essentially controls the market. You can see an initial set of firms, more in the bottom half of the V50, rushing to match either the Friday or Monday after Milbank's announcement on Thursday. And then, after that ... basically crickets. It's like the market realized DPW wasn't going to do a quick match and so everyone else backed off after the initial excitement.

This “control” is both (A) a real thing, but also (B) kind of silly. It’s silly because any other firm could come swooping in today — or last week, for that matter — with a general approximation of what everybody expects DPW to do (+$5-10K on top of Milbank, maybe with some kind of special bonus schedule) and thereby disprove that “control.” That firm would put their name back in conversation, and what’s the worse that would happen … DPW one-ups you?

STB, are you listening?

Any v20 firm could do this. It's weird.

Let me offer a little counterpoint. Being a compensation leader like we're talking about involves both having the right finances and the right culture. Emphasis both. There are some firms that have the finances to pull it off but just don't have the culture--Kirkland seems like the perfect example of this; they'll match any market move but their partnership never, ever initiates a round of raises or bonuses, despite being uber wealthy. And on the other side of the coin, I'm sure there are plenty of firms in the V100 that have a mentality of sharing the wealth and valuing their employees through compensation but simply don't have the financial horsepower to be able to set market in biglaw.

So are DPW / Milbank unique? No. But there also aren't necessarily a bunch of other firms who could fill their shoes right now as far as having *both* the characteristics I mention above. So yeah, STB could swoop in and "do what DPW does." But will they? Does their partnership care enough in 2022? Not sure.

I recently lateraled to DPW and from the time I've been here, I get the impression that DPW actually cares about its associates as people and wants us to be happy (as happy as you can be in a job like this). How would you describe the culture, from your perspective?

A culture that raises salaries would be a nice goal.

I'm pretty surprised STB or another hasn't just jumped in at this point

[Anonymous User]

Akin Gump just had an associates town hall - they basically reported that partnership said they’re not raising right now but does consider itself a competitive firm and will consider raising depending on the movement of others… basically waiting for DPW.

I was also half paying attention to the town hall so if any AGNY folks have corrections pls feel free to fix

Was this a NY only town hall? I'm AG in Dallas and had not heard of this.

[tlsthrowaway1306]

I had assumed that this was playing out like a hand of poker. It’s known/expected that Cravath doesn’t move quickly. This meant the action was on DPW as a traditional market mover. Enough time has elapsed that they effectively “checked” (ignore that they’d have to call Milbank-it’s implicit that they will do so). That put the action on Cravath, whose partnership generally meets on Mondays, if I recall correctly. They did not act yesterday, so they in effect also “checked.” (same caveat as above).

I’m left with the conclusion that there will be no re-raise. The players have indicated that they’re deferring to one another, had an opportunity to raise, and decided against it.

I’d wager that DPW matches later this week, with Cravath (and everyone else) to follow.

[Anonymous User]

Any chance DPW announces raise/bonus and a mandatory RTO at the same time? Heard that they have a townhall next week to discuss RTO.

[Anonymous User]

Akin Gump just had an associates town hall - they basically reported that partnership said they’re not raising right now but does consider itself a competitive firm and will consider raising depending on the movement of others… basically waiting for DPW.

I was also half paying attention to the town hall so if any AGNY folks have corrections pls feel free to fix

Was this a NY only town hall? I'm AG in Dallas and had not heard of this.

Yup!