Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

Since we're still waiting on DPW, I'll ask something I'm curious about. Why does Milbank keep making this play? Is it literally about the Vault rankings? Why isn't another profitable-but-not-v10 firm making the same move?

Yes vault rankings and general perception as "elite".

The others are not because Biglaw is an oligopoly. There's no incentive for the existing V10 firms to repeatedly make these moves since they're already at the top of the pack. They'll just fall in line with the market when a traditional market setter or a worthy enough maverick like Milbank decides to name a different price. The moves have done wonders for Milbank, which is now a household name in Biglaw circles.

Is it? Is Milbank getting better business, and better lawyers? Or is this just something that "very-online", and mostly junior, associates perceive?

"Very online" and "mostly junior" associates are your next generation of partners. Reputations take time to build (though can quickly be destroyed) and Milbank has done a lot in the past five years to advance its reputation.

[Anonymous User]

Since we're still waiting on DPW, I'll ask something I'm curious about. Why does Milbank keep making this play? Is it literally about the Vault rankings? Why isn't another profitable-but-not-v10 firm making the same move?

Yes vault rankings and general perception as "elite".

The others are not because Biglaw is an oligopoly. There's no incentive for the existing V10 firms to repeatedly make these moves since they're already at the top of the pack. They'll just fall in line with the market when a traditional market setter or a worthy enough maverick like Milbank decides to name a different price. The moves have done wonders for Milbank, which is now a household name in Biglaw circles.

Is it? Is Milbank getting better business, and better lawyers? Or is this just something that "very-online", and mostly junior, associates perceive?

"Very online" and "mostly junior" associates are your next generation of partners. Reputations take time to build (though can quickly be destroyed) and Milbank has done a lot in the past five years to advance its reputation.

If not partner then in house counsel that may give Milbank business. They are building up good will among law students and associates at other firms, all of whom are grateful for the raises. If they keep it up for another 15 years or so, they would likely unseat Cravath as #1 most elite name in the legal profession. It takes about a generation to solidify a reputation.

If they have money to throw around, why not invest in their future? If they don’t do it first, someone else would do it and they’d have to follow and do the same anyways but lose out on the trend-setter status.

[Anonymous User]

Since we're still waiting on DPW, I'll ask something I'm curious about. Why does Milbank keep making this play? Is it literally about the Vault rankings? Why isn't another profitable-but-not-v10 firm making the same move?

Yes vault rankings and general perception as "elite".

The others are not because Biglaw is an oligopoly. There's no incentive for the existing V10 firms to repeatedly make these moves since they're already at the top of the pack. They'll just fall in line with the market when a traditional market setter or a worthy enough maverick like Milbank decides to name a different price. The moves have done wonders for Milbank, which is now a household name in Biglaw circles.

Is it? Is Milbank getting better business, and better lawyers? Or is this just something that "very-online", and mostly junior, associates perceive?

"Very online" and "mostly junior" associates are your next generation of partners. Reputations take time to build (though can quickly be destroyed) and Milbank has done a lot in the past five years to advance its reputation.

I think the "very online" junior associates are the miserable people around here who groupthink their way into hating their jobs and lives and are out of BigLaw in 3-4 years.

[Anonymous User]

Since we're still waiting on DPW, I'll ask something I'm curious about. Why does Milbank keep making this play? Is it literally about the Vault rankings? Why isn't another profitable-but-not-v10 firm making the same move?

Yes vault rankings and general perception as "elite".

The others are not because Biglaw is an oligopoly. There's no incentive for the existing V10 firms to repeatedly make these moves since they're already at the top of the pack. They'll just fall in line with the market when a traditional market setter or a worthy enough maverick like Milbank decides to name a different price. The moves have done wonders for Milbank, which is now a household name in Biglaw circles.

Is it? Is Milbank getting better business, and better lawyers? Or is this just something that "very-online", and mostly junior, associates perceive?

"Very online" and "mostly junior" associates are your next generation of partners. Reputations take time to build (though can quickly be destroyed) and Milbank has done a lot in the past five years to advance its reputation.

I think the "very online" junior associates are the miserable people around here who groupthink their way into hating their jobs and lives and are out of BigLaw in 3-4 years.

Too cynical IMO. And speaking as someone with more than a decade in biglaw, most people are out of biglaw in 3-4 years, so you could render your point as "they're average" anyway. People at my firm (V10) are definitely aware that Milbank and DPW are pushing compensation and that Milbank especially is rising through the ranks reputationally; it's not just a TLS thing.

[Anonymous User]

Since we're still waiting on DPW, I'll ask something I'm curious about. Why does Milbank keep making this play? Is it literally about the Vault rankings? Why isn't another profitable-but-not-v10 firm making the same move?

Yes vault rankings and general perception as "elite".

The others are not because Biglaw is an oligopoly. There's no incentive for the existing V10 firms to repeatedly make these moves since they're already at the top of the pack. They'll just fall in line with the market when a traditional market setter or a worthy enough maverick like Milbank decides to name a different price. The moves have done wonders for Milbank, which is now a household name in Biglaw circles.

Is it? Is Milbank getting better business, and better lawyers? Or is this just something that "very-online", and mostly junior, associates perceive?

"Very online" and "mostly junior" associates are your next generation of partners. Reputations take time to build (though can quickly be destroyed) and Milbank has done a lot in the past five years to advance its reputation.

I think the "very online" junior associates are the miserable people around here who groupthink their way into hating their jobs and lives and are out of BigLaw in 3-4 years.

Too cynical IMO. And speaking as someone with more than a decade in biglaw, most people are out of biglaw in 3-4 years, so you could render your point as "they're average" anyway. People at my firm (V10) are definitely aware that Milbank and DPW are pushing compensation and that Milbank especially is rising through the ranks reputationally; it's not just a TLS thing.

Obviously everyone has different experiences, but I have been very involved in hiring at my V10 for a number of years now, and over all that time, I think we've lost an offered student to Milbank maybe twice (MAYBE; might have only been once). We've lost tons to the usual V10 suspects, of course. Just not Milbank. The firm is just not considered a peer where I am.

[Anonymous User]

I hope the V5 doesn't match so as to help the fight against inflation - just my perspective. Making less $ is cooler anyway

[Anonymous User]

I hope the V5 doesn't match so as to help the fight against inflation - just my perspective. Making less $ is cooler anyway

Fwiw there is something noble in not just doing the work for the money.

[Anonymous User]

An hour or so until the announcement-what are people thinking? Raise or special bonuses?

[Anonymous User]

The Partnership Pravda Law.com reports this morning: “More Money Could Mean More Problems for Associates.” We should all beware that “the gravy train may end up derailing for some associates.” (Nothing about how partners will continue to, ahem, run train on associates, though.)

[Anonymous User]

An hour or so until the announcement-what are people thinking? Raise or special bonuses?

An hour or 3 days. Either one possible

[Anonymous User]

An hour or so until the announcement-what are people thinking? Raise or special bonuses?

An hour or 3 days. Either one possible

Could be 3 weeks

[Anonymous User]

Just received my compensation award letter for the 2022-2023 year (fiscal year is Feb 1-January 31) and Foley & Lardner remains on the old (shitty) salary scale; of which class of 2018 and later is $25k below market in all markets.

[Anonymous User]

Just received my compensation award letter for the 2022-2023 year (fiscal year is Feb 1-January 31) and Foley & Lardner remains on the old (shitty) salary scale; of which class of 2018 and later is $25k below market in all markets.

Do you think Foley is going to match? Or ever move to lockstep through all class years?

[Anonymous User]

Just received my compensation award letter for the 2022-2023 year (fiscal year is Feb 1-January 31) and Foley & Lardner remains on the old (shitty) salary scale; of which class of 2018 and later is $25k below market in all markets.

Do you think Foley is going to match? Or ever move to lockstep through all class years?

Do their markets support the kind of rates that would make this possible?

[Anonymous User]

accidental double post

[Anonymous User]

Just received my compensation award letter for the 2022-2023 year (fiscal year is Feb 1-January 31) and Foley & Lardner remains on the old (shitty) salary scale; of which class of 2018 and later is $25k below market in all markets.

Do you think Foley is going to match? Or ever move to lockstep through all class years?

Do their markets support the kind of rates that would make this possible?

They matched DPW and moved all markets to the same scale last round (including in states like Wisconsin and Florida). They’re also an AmLaw 50 firm that keeps saying that last year was their best year yet. So I’d think so? But admittedly I don’t know much about this (that’s why I’m asking).

[Anonymous User]

It's been 8 days DPW. You've had a full business week plus a day. Let's get this going. Scale match + spring bonuses.

[Anonymous User]

Has this been the slowest match rate of all time? I feel like every prior one we'd see firms matching every day but this has gotten zero traffic except for a handful of firms.

[Anonymous User]

IMO, Davis Polk is deliberately slow rolling as a way of flexing on us all.

The dominance move is, “you little babies can’t do anything until we tell you to” and prolonging this limbo just highlights their alpha control over the situation vs. Cravath et al.’s weakness.

Am I just anonymously baiting Cravath into proving me wrong on a random forum? Maybe.

[glitched]

I wonder if the recent surges in associate salary and bonuses are tied to some type of tax consequences. I know the SALT cap had a big impact on the bottom line. Because of pass through tax, a 100k increase in salaries actually costs 40 or so k to the firm. That's a pretty good deal to keep associates on the roster.

[Anonymous User]

IMO, Davis Polk is deliberately slow rolling as a way of flexing on us all.

The dominance move is, “you little babies can’t do anything until we tell you to” and prolonging this limbo just highlights their alpha control over the situation vs. Cravath et al.’s weakness.

Am I just anonymously baiting Cravath into proving me wrong on a random forum? Maybe.

Pretty sure Cravath has accepted that its days as market leader are over, at least for the foreseeable future. Not sure why that happened, since they still have that old-school preftige to hold onto and end up matching DPW/Milbank like every other firm anyway so it doesn't cost them anything to be first mover. But after getting dunked on after trying to establish market bonuses last year, I wouldn't be eager to do anything before DPW if I were Cravath.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

IMO, Davis Polk is deliberately slow rolling as a way of flexing on us all.

The dominance move is, “you little babies can’t do anything until we tell you to” and prolonging this limbo just highlights their alpha control over the situation vs. Cravath et al.’s weakness.

Am I just anonymously baiting Cravath into proving me wrong on a random forum? Maybe.

Pretty sure Cravath has accepted that its days as market leader are over, at least for the foreseeable future. Not sure why that happened, since they still have that old-school preftige to hold onto and end up matching DPW/Milbank like every other firm anyway so it doesn't cost them anything to be first mover. But after getting dunked on after trying to establish market bonuses last year, I wouldn't be eager to do anything before DPW if I were Cravath.

Well Cravath is almost out of the Top 10 in terms of RPL, and Milbank is right on their heels at #12. (https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/2021 ... er-lawyer/)

Also, I don't think they had a year on part with DPW/Milbank/K&E etc.

[lawshark1]

Irell & Luner went to 225k starting

[Anonymous User]

Irell & Luner went to 225k starting

Weren't they always above market? Or does this mean something?