Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

ATL is too woke now

This was a refreshing comment. I’m still a law student and I’ve been wondering how woke big law has become. Nice to see some lawyers are anti-woke.

I wouldn't say there's a lot of antiwoke in biglaw. There's gonna be diversity initiatives and affinity groups. But we're here to work and make money so there's a lot more realism.

[Anonymous User]

Any reason to think this Monday is different from previous Mondays? (w/r/t Cravath partner meetings...)

Also, I would love to see AboveTheLaw earn its keep and actually do some shoe-leather journalism on this topic — perhaps getting some partners to speak off the record about what is going on here; or at a minimum forcing the big firms to stick their tails between their legs with a "no comment." Just feels that ATL had much better coverage and better sources in the David Lat era, ~10 years ago.

ATL is a total disaster now. They do almost 0 "reporting" or fact-gathering of the sort you're describing. All their coverage falls into two buckets: (1) acting as a mouthpiece for law firm PR departments; (2) random stream-of-consciousness reaction pieces from the "authors" they have left there. Oh, I forgot the smattering of sponsored posts from advertisers, there's that too.

The best real reporting I've seen comes either from Bloomberg Law or from law.com. There have been some great pieces from them. But they both have a very buttoned up feeling; I agree we're missing someone like David Lat who could call up a bunch of partner contacts and just ask them for the scoop. I miss that style of reporting.

ATL is a shell of what it was back in the day when David Lat was running it directly and there were comments enabled. Firms used to genuinely worry that things they said in associate meetings or summer associate snafus would end up on ATL. Heck, found out I passed the bar from the ATL comments section when results were leaked. Nothing like that would happen today.

What happened to David Lat, anyway?

I think he sold it and moved on. Currently has a substack but not sure it's his only gig. Also he nearly died from covid so might not be physically able to maintain a heavy schedule.

Lat thought the gig was up five years ago; this was a move that was happening before COVID. I personally think the disassembly of ATL was an overreaction to the rise of twitter / instagram. Everyone overreacted and said "blog-style news is dead! reporting is dead! we're going to get all our industry news from facebook now so who cares!" and so he abandoned the platform to try other things. I think the reality is that there's still a demand for an old-school style ATL (think ATL circa 2007) but just suitably updated. I doubt it will come from them though they have almost no people left and they don't seem to have the chops sufficient to serve as a foundation for a rebirth of the site. ATL is going to exist on the power of its name-brand for a few more years and then I think it goes away once the few remaining people there get bored of it and find something more lucrative.

You see what you've done DPW? You've forced us to start discussing legal news reporting gossip and trends. That's what you've reduced us too.

[Anonymous User]

Any reason to think this Monday is different from previous Mondays? (w/r/t Cravath partner meetings...)

Also, I would love to see AboveTheLaw earn its keep and actually do some shoe-leather journalism on this topic — perhaps getting some partners to speak off the record about what is going on here; or at a minimum forcing the big firms to stick their tails between their legs with a "no comment." Just feels that ATL had much better coverage and better sources in the David Lat era, ~10 years ago.

ATL is a total disaster now. They do almost 0 "reporting" or fact-gathering of the sort you're describing. All their coverage falls into two buckets: (1) acting as a mouthpiece for law firm PR departments; (2) random stream-of-consciousness reaction pieces from the "authors" they have left there. Oh, I forgot the smattering of sponsored posts from advertisers, there's that too.

The best real reporting I've seen comes either from Bloomberg Law or from law.com. There have been some great pieces from them. But they both have a very buttoned up feeling; I agree we're missing someone like David Lat who could call up a bunch of partner contacts and just ask them for the scoop. I miss that style of reporting.

ATL is a shell of what it was back in the day when David Lat was running it directly and there were comments enabled. Firms used to genuinely worry that things they said in associate meetings or summer associate snafus would end up on ATL. Heck, found out I passed the bar from the ATL comments section when results were leaked. Nothing like that would happen today.

Glad I’m not the only who found Staci Zaretsky and Kathryn Rubino incredibly annoying

[Anonymous User]

I got into a V10 firm there is a 0% chance they aren’t going to match

The coping from V10 associates clutching to their prestige as they get out-earned by Cadwalader chads.

lol chadwalader

Isn't this just the firms that were losing associates trying to retain the remaining burnt out associates they still have? I'm assuming the high performers at these firms already left, grabbing a bonus and a higher tier firm. What is a 10K raise to someone who cashed in a lateral bonus a few months ago... For context, I'm a 3L heading to a V100 firm, so please let me know if this is completely off base

[Anonymous User]

ATL is too woke now

This was a refreshing comment. I’m still a law student and I’ve been wondering how woke big law has become. Nice to see some lawyers are anti-woke.

I wouldn't say there's a lot of antiwoke in biglaw. There's gonna be diversity initiatives and affinity groups. But we're here to work and make money so there's a lot more realism.

Biglaw woke is having a Zoom meeting where everyone introduces themselves with their pronouns before talking about how best to defend an opioid manufacturer against claims brought by estates of dead overdosed people.

[Anonymous User]

Stay on topic, we're talking about the Chadwalader associates buying their wives lobster for Valentine's Day while DPW betas get them pasta with ketchup.

[Anonymous User]

Stay on topic, we're talking about the Chadwalader associates buying their wives lobster for Valentine's Day while DPW betas get them pasta with ketchup.

Can confirm, my wife left me to go clubbing with a CWT chad in his Uber Black last Friday while I waited for HR to get back to me about my GrubHub reimbursement.

[NoLongerALurker]

lol ATL is legit garbage. NEP and BLB are better sources for law news.

What are these? Would love an ATL alternative

Instagram meme accounts that actually still post news. Both recently left big law i believe, but are still connected.

Agree they are better than ATL but their constant promotion or their podcasts and other sponsored products annoy me. Like, good for you and go get that money and I’m not judging, but it is my one main point of “bleh” with those meme accounts.

[Anonymous User]

DPW associate here. Just cancelled my Valentine’s reservation at Eleven Madison tonight in favor of 7-Eleven to-go food. And now I have to break it to the LOML that we need to cancel the restaurant buyout of the Lobster Club for our wedding and book the local Y instead. Have a heart, Neil!

[Anonymous User]

Chadwalder associates eating LOBSTER at YALE CLUB.

DPW associates playing CRAB TAG at local Y.

[Anonymous User]

lol ATL is legit garbage. NEP and BLB are better sources for law news.

What are these? Would love an ATL alternative

Instagram meme accounts that actually still post news. Both recently left big law i believe, but are still connected.

Agree they are better than ATL but their constant promotion or their podcasts and other sponsored products annoy me. Lie, good for you and go get that money and I’m not judging, but it is my one main point of “bleh” with those meme accounts.

Also BLB is a real conservative edgelord, it turns out

Litigation_god is the only good one left

[Anonymous User]

Any chance the CSM partners are just having a really late lunch today?

[Anonymous User]

My firm just asked that we waste another 8 hours a week commuting but no match. Feels great

[Anonymous User]

Any chance the CSM partners are just having a really late lunch today?

I think they announced the bonus scale this year at like almost 5pm. Maybe they need time to draft the memo after the lunch meeting (plus factor in nap time if martinis and lobster were served at the meeting).

[Anonymous User]

Kinda just expecting my firm to reflect the new scale on the paycheck tomorrow. Let's see.

[glitched]

If nothing else comes out of this thread, at least we got Chadwalader

[Anonymous User]

If nothing else comes out of this thread, at least we got Chadwalader

Did that only just become a thing ITT? God it feels like we’ve been here for years…

[Anonymous User]

https://abovethelaw.com/2022/02/biglaw- ... aries-yet/

Fuck you, William. PAY. US. NOW.

[Anonymous User]

At this point, I genuinely want to see DPW pull a covingTTTon and resist to match. Given their silence so far, I don't think logic is in play here.

[Anonymous User]

This is getting ridiculous. I'm an M&A associate who has been swamped for months and I will 100% leave my v5 for a firm on the Milbank scale if it doesn't match. If firms think they can rely on their "prestige" to undercompensate associates they're stupid. I literally don't care where I work if I receive better pay for the same hours/fewer hours than I am currently working. I feel like firms don't think associates like me exist (i.e., will actually leave over 10-20k/yr), but I think there are many who feel similarly.

[Anonymous User]

This is getting ridiculous. I'm an M&A associate who has been swamped for months and I will 100% leave my v5 for a firm on the Milbank scale if it doesn't match. If firms think they can rely on their "prestige" to undercompensate associates they're stupid. I literally don't care where I work if I receive better pay for the same hours/fewer hours than I am currently working. I feel like firms don't think associates like me exist (i.e., will actually leave over 10-20k/yr), but I think there are many who feel similarly.

Agree. At a V5 and ready to flee because of this absurdity.

[Anonymous User]

This is getting ridiculous. I'm an M&A associate who has been swamped for months and I will 100% leave my v5 for a firm on the Milbank scale if it doesn't match. If firms think they can rely on their "prestige" to undercompensate associates they're stupid. I literally don't care where I work if I receive better pay for the same hours/fewer hours than I am currently working. I feel like firms don't think associates like me exist (i.e., will actually leave over 10-20k/yr), but I think there are many who feel similarly.

Can I ask, why haven't you already left then? If you're a swamped transactional attorney you could make a fair amount more by going to a firm that gives super-bonuses regardless of base salary.

[Anonymous User]

The best decision for a transactional attorney at a top firm who wants to maximize $$$ and doesn't care about partnership is to lateral - right now, in this market, before big lateral signing bonuses go away.

[Anonymous User]

This is getting ridiculous. I'm an M&A associate who has been swamped for months and I will 100% leave my v5 for a firm on the Milbank scale if it doesn't match. If firms think they can rely on their "prestige" to undercompensate associates they're stupid. I literally don't care where I work if I receive better pay for the same hours/fewer hours than I am currently working. I feel like firms don't think associates like me exist (i.e., will actually leave over 10-20k/yr), but I think there are many who feel similarly.

Can I ask, why haven't you already left then? If you're a swamped transactional attorney you could make a fair amount more by going to a firm that gives super-bonuses regardless of base salary.

Different anon but: There's a cost to leaving and cutting ties. Sometimes it's relatively low but it's not 0. Some ephemeral promise of "your year-end bonus will be a bigger multiple than your current year-end bonus" may not be enough by itself to push a certain subset of associates over to a new place. But those same people may be more moved at the idea that their actual base salary, the figure we all have in our head when someone asks "how much do you make" is less than their peers doing the same crap at another place.

[Anonymous User]

https://abovethelaw.com/2022/02/biglaw- ... aries-yet/

Fuck you, William. PAY. US. NOW.

TIL Cahill Gordon pays above market...?