Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[VentureMBA]

I am one of those v10 equity partners you all despise. I honestly am hoping for a sharp correction and something like 2008-2010 (but not quite as bad) to flush all of the shit out of the system. There's so much bloat right now and terrible, entitled associates. We need some hardship to get lean and mean again.

I fully believe this guy is a partner. Totally believes he is entitled to his outsized profits, but yells that associates are entitled for their big salary raises. The cognitive dissonance is astonishing. I’m sure he has some view as to why the owners of law firms are entitled to much higher profit margins than the owners of all other businesses and how it’s terrible the associates are eating into that outsized profitability a little bit.

In fairness, partners make it based on merit. Today, 90% of associates have jobs because they are a warm body. I am sure partners are OK paying high performers more and blanket raises makes that more challenging.

[Anonymous User]

There's no way a v10 partner actually wishes for 08 repeat. I'm a non trad associate who actually remembers those years, and everyone I knew lost half their net worth. A partner is likely at least my age and remembers that too. Wishing for yourself to lose millions so that others can lose tens of thousands is so insane I refuse to believe that comment was real.

Back on topic, has anyone matched yet? Feel like previous raises at least some firms jumped to match quickly, were they caught off guard?

[HenryHankPalmer]

This thread is super informative and useful. Great work, y’all!

[Anonymous User]

I am one of those v10 equity partners you all despise. I honestly am hoping for a sharp correction and something like 2008-2010 (but not quite as bad) to flush all of the shit out of the system. There's so much bloat right now and terrible, entitled associates. We need some hardship to get lean and mean again.

I fully believe this guy is a partner. Totally believes he is entitled to his outsized profits, but yells that associates are entitled for their big salary raises. The cognitive dissonance is astonishing. I’m sure he has some view as to why the owners of law firms are entitled to much higher profit margins than the owners of all other businesses and how it’s terrible the associates are eating into that outsized profitability a little bit.

In fairness, partners make it based on merit. Today, 90% of associates have jobs because they are a warm body. I am sure partners are OK paying high performers more and blanket raises makes that more challenging.

Lmao @ the idea 90% of biglaw associates have jobs because they are a warm body. Hope the partners see this bro.

[VentureMBA]

I am one of those v10 equity partners you all despise. I honestly am hoping for a sharp correction and something like 2008-2010 (but not quite as bad) to flush all of the shit out of the system. There's so much bloat right now and terrible, entitled associates. We need some hardship to get lean and mean again.

I fully believe this guy is a partner. Totally believes he is entitled to his outsized profits, but yells that associates are entitled for their big salary raises. The cognitive dissonance is astonishing. I’m sure he has some view as to why the owners of law firms are entitled to much higher profit margins than the owners of all other businesses and how it’s terrible the associates are eating into that outsized profitability a little bit.

In fairness, partners make it based on merit. Today, 90% of associates have jobs because they are a warm body. I am sure partners are OK paying high performers more and blanket raises makes that more challenging.

Lmao @ the idea 90% of biglaw associates have jobs because they are a warm body. Hope the partners see this bro.

This is absolutely true. Every single junior associate is a body and nothing more. Every associate that isn't expected to make partner is ordinarily expendable other than in a time like this with extreme demand and extreme attrition.

Tell anyone in any other job that we just pay people the exact same amount regardless of performance and they won't believe you. Nowhere else do you get a raise every year just because you didn't get fired and make the same whether you're the first or last associate in your class. It is insane and I see why partners resist giving raises to people they wish they could fire.

[Anonymous User]

I am one of those v10 equity partners you all despise. I honestly am hoping for a sharp correction and something like 2008-2010 (but not quite as bad) to flush all of the shit out of the system. There's so much bloat right now and terrible, entitled associates. We need some hardship to get lean and mean again.

I fully believe this guy is a partner. Totally believes he is entitled to his outsized profits, but yells that associates are entitled for their big salary raises. The cognitive dissonance is astonishing. I’m sure he has some view as to why the owners of law firms are entitled to much higher profit margins than the owners of all other businesses and how it’s terrible the associates are eating into that outsized profitability a little bit.

In fairness, partners make it based on merit. Today, 90% of associates have jobs because they are a warm body. I am sure partners are OK paying high performers more and blanket raises makes that more challenging.

Lmao @ the idea 90% of biglaw associates have jobs because they are a warm body. Hope the partners see this bro.

also lol @ the "partners make it based on merit" as a flat, unqualified statement. If bringing in work is the only metric, that may well be true, but many partners are awful attorneys. Have also seen several partners struggle to make/maintain a position in a firm despite being exceptional attorneys because they "only" bring in a couple million a year in billings.

The market will correct eventually, but I sincerely doubt it is because all of the chaff leaves and the best associates stick around. The opposite is much more likely to happen.

[VentureMBA]

I am one of those v10 equity partners you all despise. I honestly am hoping for a sharp correction and something like 2008-2010 (but not quite as bad) to flush all of the shit out of the system. There's so much bloat right now and terrible, entitled associates. We need some hardship to get lean and mean again.

I fully believe this guy is a partner. Totally believes he is entitled to his outsized profits, but yells that associates are entitled for their big salary raises. The cognitive dissonance is astonishing. I’m sure he has some view as to why the owners of law firms are entitled to much higher profit margins than the owners of all other businesses and how it’s terrible the associates are eating into that outsized profitability a little bit.

In fairness, partners make it based on merit. Today, 90% of associates have jobs because they are a warm body. I am sure partners are OK paying high performers more and blanket raises makes that more challenging.

Lmao @ the idea 90% of biglaw associates have jobs because they are a warm body. Hope the partners see this bro.

also lol @ the "partners make it based on merit" as a flat, unqualified statement. If bringing in work is the only metric, that may well be true, but many partners are awful attorneys. Have also seen several partners struggle to make/maintain a position in a firm despite being exceptional attorneys because they "only" bring in a couple million a year in billings.

The market will correct eventually, but I sincerely doubt it is because all of the chaff leaves and the best associates stick around. The opposite is much more likely to happen.

I used "merit" in business sense - creating money for the firm. Its a business, not a law school exam.

[Anonymous User]

Isn't this the fourth raise in the last six years? Recall that biglaw didn't raise salaries at all from 2007 to 2016. And didn't start paying the huge bonuses until ~2014?

ya when I was interviewing in 2013, 7th years made 265k + 50k bonus ($315k) and that seemed incredible to me at the time. Now I'm a 7th year and salary + year end bonus is $485k, if there is a special bonus at last year's scale that goes up to $572k. Almost double! No complaints here.

[BrowsingTLS]

I now make $225K. Thank you Milbank. People need to remember Milbank when vault rankings come out. Doesn't matter that firms like DPW go over and then Milbank matches the overage. Milbank almost ALWAYS gets our compensation moving upward.

[Anonymous User]

I now make $225K. Thank you Milbank. People need to remember Milbank when vault rankings come out. Doesn't matter that firms like DPW go over and then Milbank matches the overage. Milbank almost ALWAYS gets our compensation moving upward.

+1. First mover gets the nickname.

Once they hit a million starting salary, they get the "Mil(lion)bank Scale."

[feminist.supporter]

Should law grads today get paid more than those 3 years ago accounting for inflation?

Yes. Next question.

Well good news. They ARE. That's what this is.

Can’t believe someone is arguing against getting a raise LOL. Or that people are whiny if they expect that they should get a larger portion of the profit their labor generates.

Who's arguing against raises? I'm arguing against complaining about a raise that outpaces almost every field in the modern world. 26 year olds coming out of school making 215k is bonkers.

And yes, if you're getting a nice raise, and your first thought is "it should be higher", you're whiny. Firm associate salaries are so insanely bloated it's insane.

Bad way to cope at the fact that entry level SDE college grads are making $160-200K TC which, in areas like the PNW, are lower COL than NYC and SF. What is that, 22 y/o making as much as mid/senior associates and far more than in-house while working 30-40 hour weeks? Nice.

All of these statements are true. Why not study for CS in UG? FLAG and various other tech companies have been hiring aggressively since 2015; why not board then train back then?

[Buglaw]

I am one of those v10 equity partners you all despise. I honestly am hoping for a sharp correction and something like 2008-2010 (but not quite as bad) to flush all of the shit out of the system. There's so much bloat right now and terrible, entitled associates. We need some hardship to get lean and mean again.

I fully believe this guy is a partner. Totally believes he is entitled to his outsized profits, but yells that associates are entitled for their big salary raises. The cognitive dissonance is astonishing. I’m sure he has some view as to why the owners of law firms are entitled to much higher profit margins than the owners of all other businesses and how it’s terrible the associates are eating into that outsized profitability a little bit.

In fairness, partners make it based on merit. Today, 90% of associates have jobs because they are a warm body. I am sure partners are OK paying high performers more and blanket raises makes that more challenging.

I mean, most associates made it on merit too, right? They hire people who went to the best law schools or did extremely well at worse law schools. That is about 15 years of meritocratic performance. It’s not like they would hire janitors or people who went to t4 law schools or whatever. Sure, it’s a bit less competitive now, but it’s not like they are literally taking anyone. I doubt someone doing personal bankruptcies is going to be in hot demand.

[Buglaw]

I am one of those v10 equity partners you all despise. I honestly am hoping for a sharp correction and something like 2008-2010 (but not quite as bad) to flush all of the shit out of the system. There's so much bloat right now and terrible, entitled associates. We need some hardship to get lean and mean again.

I fully believe this guy is a partner. Totally believes he is entitled to his outsized profits, but yells that associates are entitled for their big salary raises. The cognitive dissonance is astonishing. I’m sure he has some view as to why the owners of law firms are entitled to much higher profit margins than the owners of all other businesses and how it’s terrible the associates are eating into that outsized profitability a little bit.

In fairness, partners make it based on merit. Today, 90% of associates have jobs because they are a warm body. I am sure partners are OK paying high performers more and blanket raises makes that more challenging.

Lmao @ the idea 90% of biglaw associates have jobs because they are a warm body. Hope the partners see this bro.

also lol @ the "partners make it based on merit" as a flat, unqualified statement. If bringing in work is the only metric, that may well be true, but many partners are awful attorneys. Have also seen several partners struggle to make/maintain a position in a firm despite being exceptional attorneys because they "only" bring in a couple million a year in billings.

The market will correct eventually, but I sincerely doubt it is because all of the chaff leaves and the best associates stick around. The opposite is much more likely to happen.

I used "merit" in business sense - creating money for the firm. Its a business, not a law school exam.

Junior associates don’t make money for firms? Lol wut? They make tons of money for firms like junior bankers, consultants, accountants, etc. do. IDK what you are talking about.

If they could just fill it with anyone, they’d grab some moron for 80k and grind ‘‘em to dust. But, they can’t which is the same reason bankers pay such high amounts for people with little to no skills.

[Anonymous User]

CADWALADER MATCH

[Anonymous User]

For people in class years beyond 2014 (2013, 2012, 2011, etc.), can anyone confirm that the match is being applied equally to them, i.e., they're also getting a 20k salary bump? That's how it's been historically handled for people off the "grid" but would be nice to confirm.

[Anonymous User]

This thread is super informative and useful. Great work, y’all!

This thread is an example of why TLS is such a shit format. 99% of the people coming into it are here for news & discussion about the Milbank scale move. But because two autists decided to get into a back and forth about I don't even know what, we're forced to suffer through pages of their bullshit.

[Anonymous User]

This thread is super informative and useful. Great work, y’all!

This thread is an example of why TLS is such a shit format. 99% of the people coming into it are here for news & discussion about the Milbank scale move. But because two autists decided to get into a back and forth about I don't even know what, we're forced to suffer through pages of their bullshit.

Let's not pretend we're above it. No one comes here for news - you can just check lawinsider, linkedin, law360 or abovethelaw for that. We come here for the "discussion". This site is social media/FB for lawyers. We're all here solely for the autists.

[Anonymous User]

For people in class years beyond 2014 (2013, 2012, 2011, etc.), can anyone confirm that the match is being applied equally to them, i.e., they're also getting a 20k salary bump? That's how it's been historically handled for people off the "grid" but would be nice to confirm.

Above the law reports "Class of 2014+" for the CWT match, so it's presumed.

[Buglaw]

This thread is super informative and useful. Great work, y’all!

This thread is an example of why TLS is such a shit format. 99% of the people coming into it are here for news & discussion about the Milbank scale move. But because two autists decided to get into a back and forth about I don't even know what, we're forced to suffer through pages of their bullshit.

Let's not pretend we're above it. No one comes here for news - you can just check lawinsider, linkedin, law360 or abovethelaw for that. We come here for the "discussion". This site is social media/FB for lawyers. We're all here solely for the autists.

I like that someone posted that anon, which is a clear abuse of the system to complain about me who is also abusing the system in a different way.

[Anonymous User]

Tell anyone in any other job that we just pay people the exact same amount regardless of performance and they won't believe you. Nowhere else do you get a raise every year just because you didn't get fired and make the same whether you're the first or last associate in your class. It is insane and I see why partners resist giving raises to people they wish they could fire.

I mean, many government (especially unionized) jobs are like this (automatic raises every year just because you didnt get fired, everyone -- at least with the same degree--makes the same). Thats what the GS scale is, thats what teacher pay scales are, etc.... see eg https://www.atlantapublicschools.us/cms ... .07.21.pdf

[AureliusCapital]

When does DPW come over the top?

[Anonymous User]

As a regulatory associate, this makes me very happy. I've been stressed out about potential spring bonuses tied to hours. I really need the full year to meet my hours and can't count on doing so half-way through. I would MUCH rather have a guaranteed salary bump + sizeable EOY bonus (so long as the base salary keeps up with inflation).

[Anonymous User]

As a regulatory associate, this makes me very happy. I've been stressed out about potential spring bonuses tied to hours. I really need the full year to meet my hours and can't count on doing so half-way through. I would MUCH rather have a guaranteed salary bump + sizeable EOY bonus (so long as the base salary keeps up with inflation).

Regulatory hours are more seasonal (i.e. not to busy at the start of the year, pick up at the end?)

[Anonymous User]

Fried Frank match

[JM14]

As they say - another day another 10K?