Games in Law Firms Forum

[Anonymous User]

How do I deal with the petty games played internally within law firms without quitting or alternatively gritting my teeth but then losing my dignity in the process?

Recently, I made a lateral move as a mid to senior level associate from a V10 to a lower ranked firm as a lifestyle move. I guess that I should've seen this coming, but it has ruffled a few feathers among the associate ranks who appear to feel threatened. As part of the negotiations, the agreement was that I could work remotely from a city in a 'red state'. Well, one of the associates from day one has been spreading rumors within the firm that I'm some kind of alt right extremist who has an obsession with gun culture, and that was supposedly the reason behind my move (whereas in reality, it is about moving being close to family and school friends and escaping Manhattan...) It's nonsense but some seem to have bought into it. He's also randomly called me on Microsoft Teams and acted like a total weirdo (who do you dislike in the firm so far? I want you to be able to trust me to talk about these things, etc.)

Anyway, he seems to have found a sympathetic ear among one of the partners. Recently, the partner has started staffing me on deals as HIS junior, despite the fact that we're in the same class year. Anytime I prepare a draft agreement, he goes to town marking it up and dressing me down. His changes are literally poor drafting habits that I was trained out of. It's a form of torture. I can put up with a lot, but being put through my paces by a Machiavellian associate feels like a bridge too far. This partner, however, is a total supporter of him and anything he says.

I've thought about quitting and finding another job, but the reality is I spent a lot of money making the move and decking out a new home. Plus, I have no idea if any other new job is going to be a better move, and my wife is done with NYC. So here we are.

Does anybody have strategies with how to set boundaries and not put up with bullying in this situation? I know my work product is at a high level, especially in this team, and frankly I just don't want to put up with nonsense that is best be left to a bad first year experience. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

Report it to HR and refuse to work with him in any capacity and totally block him. There's no other way. Tell the partner that you 100% cannot work with this person and be firm about it. The partner will get it (hopefully) and not staff you two together.

[Anonymous User]

idk that reporting to HR is a good move, roping in HR is often (fairly or not) seen as a nuclear move.

who did you work with to arrange this move? if another partner, i'd reach out and lay it out - this guy has been spreading weird/false gossip, seems to be trying to muddy/poison the waters with "the new guy" and he's going to lengths on deal teams to create friction. make clear that this is unlike anything you've seen in practice and you wouldn't be reaching out if it wasn't so egregious, and given the current deluge of work no one has time to be dealing with this. you're going to need specific examples, so i'd have those handy.

i'm assuming you're a transactional associate, and there are a ton of firms agreeing to remote work right now, so if your new firm is unsupportive because Andy Bernard over here is trying to play politics, i'd consider that too.

[Anonymous User]

I'll add my two cents that you have an extraordinary amount of leverage right now - probably more leverage than associates have ever had at a law firm. If this is as bad as it sounds, I would talk to someone and raise concerns immediately. In the background, consider applying for other jobs so you have something to fall back on in case this blows up - you can probalby get a new job within the week.

[ExpOriental]

They're definitely just threatened by your presteej bro. You have those sick v10 drafting skills. It's like a Cutco salesman talking shit on a Masamune.

This story also sounds very complete and like it's not missing any significant details.

[Anonymous User]

You gotta lean into your reputation and go full Dwight here. Intimidate them, put some guns in your video background and stuff.

OK seriously though, have you considered that you're missing some social cues? Do you know someone spoke behind your back or do you just suspect? This guy calling you up to gossip sounds like just a friendly guy, maybe doesn't quite understand how he comes off, like so many in our industry.

I also don't understand being so bothered that you're working with someone the same class year. The partner is more familiar with them, and you're getting substantive work, you just don't like this guy.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you all for the replies. All really helpful approaches, definitely makes me feel less powerless.

They're definitely just threatened by your presteej bro. You have those sick v10 drafting skills. It's like a Cutco salesman talking shit on a Masamune.

This story also sounds very complete and like it's not missing any significant details.

Yeah I hear you and appreciate that my OP may come across as arrogant, there's two sides to the story, etc. Nobody can verify whether my take aligns with reality in any shape or form. I think that's generally true for forum posts. I'm also hopefully self aware enough to get that I may be the source of some (or more?) of the problem. But I'm also just posting here for advice, it's not as though I'm naming people and trying them to shame them in the court of public opinion. So I'd appreciate any advice on the assumption that this is a good faith, somewhat realistic take on reality; and if it's not, well hopefully this thread one day helps someone who actually is in a similar situation.

You gotta lean into your reputation and go full Dwight here. Intimidate them, put some guns in your video background and stuff.

This is hilarious. I would love to do this

OK seriously though, have you considered that you're missing some social cues? Do you know someone spoke behind your back or do you just suspect? This guy calling you up to gossip sounds like just a friendly guy, maybe doesn't quite understand how he comes off, like so many in our industry.

Definitely a possibility. I had a bad experience early in my career and it's colored my perception. In terms of social cues, I'm definitely no pro (but also not like on the spectrum), but equally I'm in a different state so there's not as much to pick up on. Yeah I do know someone who heard the gossip and reported it back to me. Don't want to get too deep into it because of anonymity, but I know them outside the workplace and I trust their take on things.

[Anonymous User]

Does anybody have strategies with how to set boundaries and not put up with bullying in this situation? I know my work product is at a high level, especially in this team, and frankly I just don't want to put up with nonsense that is best be left to a bad first year experience. Thanks.

Welcome to the joys of being a lateral - you enjoy the red carpet treatment, only to have it pulled out from underneath you when someone feels threatened by you. Your strategy, I think, depends on what your goal is from this job. You may have others in mind, but if you're like most people, I'd guess it's one of:

1. Have a good life at all costs - take no shit or prisoners, job and career security be damned.

2. Stay long enough to keep your signing bonus (presumably a year?) and then you don't care - relocation's done, you can see what's in the local market.

3. Stay long enough to feather your nest and/or ride the firm to an exit (presumably a bit longer).

4. Do the haul and try to make partner.

If you're going for 1, then sure, go nuclear - talk to HR, other partners, more senior associates, staffing coordinator about this person and your concerns. The downside is that people start thinking of you as a pain (whether rightly or wrongly; and I may be exaggerating the fears of this in this market) and/or your work dries up. Start looking at other options as soon as you can.

For 2, you might want to be a little more subtle about it: be polite and conciliatory, but push back when this person's being unreasonable and shut down any aspersions on your personal beliefs and do what others have suggested in terms of getting out of this guy's way (and so, maybe, away from this partner). Depending on the size of the group and firm, this may have long term consequences for you - if the homegrown person makes it or is around long enough, this could stymie your chances. But you're ok as long as there are others who like you.

For 3 and 4, the strategy might be to keep your head down, ride this out, and see if/hope that your work quality speaks for itself. If your work product is as good as you say it is and the firm can see that (unfortunately not all firms/groups do), you'll eventually be trusted to do your own work. If they want you to be tested by other associates before working with partners directly, maybe try to see if you can align yourself with and work for more senior associates who are slammed and try to carry things for them a bit - obviously assuming you're as good as you say you are. They'll likely have more sway and credibility in the group than your antagonist. But keep your counsel and bitch to TLS and your journal. If things don't change within nine months, then you may just be at the wrong firm.

For what it's worth, this sort of situation is understandably frustrating and can be the sort of thing that eats you up (and so affect your work quality). It's happened to me at times; I've seen it happen to others, too. (As well as needing bodies, one of the reasons lateral bonuses have become so big is that people recognize that you're giving up the privileges of familiarity/being known in a hot market. A lot can be excused if people have known you for long enough.)

If you're taking the path of least resistance, making sure you have good downtime pursuits, workouts, a meditation routine, or a shooting range nearby (joking) to work out your frustrations may not be a bad idea. Good luck.

[Anonymous User]

This is probably not a popular take, but I'd confront the associate about it as nicely as possible. Lots of people will try to push the boundaries when they think they can get away with it, but when they are confronted directly with what they are doing in a non-threatening way their conscience kicks in.

What do I mean? Call the associate up and say something like "hey, I heard a nasty rumor that you were saying X about me behind my back. I don't think that's the type of thing you would do at all, especially since you've been so kind in reaching out to me about adjusting to the firm, so I wanted to raise it with in case there's something you want to talk to me about. We're a team here, right?" Follow that up with "Also, I really appreciate that you've been taking the time out of your busy day to review my work on X matters with X partner even though we're at the same level. It seems like this firm does things a little differently from I was taught at my previous firm, so I have some catching up to do for sure. Would you be willing to walk through some tips on drafting and why you use those so I can better understand X partner's style?"

Both of these put the other associate in an awkward position. They are clearly comfortable talking about you behind your back and giving shit edits over email (if your OP is correct). But when confronted by a human being about them and asked to justify their actions as nicely as possible, they may second guess their strategy and try to avoid an awkward convo like this one in the future.

[CanadianWolf]

While my first reaction was the thought that you work with a couple of immature jerks, I cannot let go of my impression of your outrage that: "...the partner has started staffing me on deals as HIS junior, despite the fact that we're in the same class year."

At the very least, this raises awareness that there are at least two sides to every story.

It might be helpful to have a trusted associate to evaluate the drafting mark-ups which you claim to be a form of harassment. (I would be willing to read any such edits--via PM/DM--of non-confidential material that you think are meritless if you want an impartial opinion.) For example: Do you see the irony in your statement that: "His changes are literally poor drafting habits that I was trained out of." ?

P.S. Be very careful before approaching HR with a complaint about this matter as this type of action can backfire on the complainant.

[CanadianWolf]

Sorry to post two consecutive replies in your thread, but I ran out of time to add an additional comment.

I encourage you to reread the third paragraph of your original post in this thread.

[glitched]

You're reading way too much into this. You're new. They need to make sure they can trust you. Do your best work, and gently push back if you really have a case for why you're right. If you are indeed right, the partner will notice. If you are wrong, then you should reflect on that and not automatically assume your prior training is better than your current firm's practices.

Do NOT go to HR about this. If you're going to talk to a or the partner about this, make damn sure you have a case as to why your way is better.

For the culture issues, I'd ignore it. If it bothers you that much, I'd talk to the associate or maybe some other associates and make sure that your version of reality is actually what's happening.

[Saami]

This is probably not a popular take, but I'd confront the associate about it as nicely as possible. Lots of people will try to push the boundaries when they think they can get away with it, but when they are confronted directly with what they are doing in a non-threatening way their conscience kicks in.

What do I mean? Call the associate up and say something like "hey, I heard a nasty rumor that you were saying X about me behind my back. I don't think that's the type of thing you would do at all, especially since you've been so kind in reaching out to me about adjusting to the firm, so I wanted to raise it with in case there's something you want to talk to me about. We're a team here, right?" Follow that up with "Also, I really appreciate that you've been taking the time out of your busy day to review my work on X matters with X partner even though we're at the same level. It seems like this firm does things a little differently from I was taught at my previous firm, so I have some catching up to do for sure. Would you be willing to walk through some tips on drafting and why you use those so I can better understand X partner's style?"

Both of these put the other associate in an awkward position. They are clearly comfortable talking about you behind your back and giving shit edits over email (if your OP is correct). But when confronted by a human being about them and asked to justify their actions as nicely as possible, they may second guess their strategy and try to avoid an awkward convo like this one in the future.

100% endorse this strategy.

[xiaoguami]

This is probably not a popular take, but I'd confront the associate about it as nicely as possible. Lots of people will try to push the boundaries when they think they can get away with it, but when they are confronted directly with what they are doing in a non-threatening way their conscience kicks in.

What do I mean? Call the associate up and say something like "hey, I heard a nasty rumor that you were saying X about me behind my back. I don't think that's the type of thing you would do at all, especially since you've been so kind in reaching out to me about adjusting to the firm, so I wanted to raise it with in case there's something you want to talk to me about. We're a team here, right?" Follow that up with "Also, I really appreciate that you've been taking the time out of your busy day to review my work on X matters with X partner even though we're at the same level. It seems like this firm does things a little differently from I was taught at my previous firm, so I have some catching up to do for sure. Would you be willing to walk through some tips on drafting and why you use those so I can better understand X partner's style?"

Both of these put the other associate in an awkward position. They are clearly comfortable talking about you behind your back and giving shit edits over email (if your OP is correct). But when confronted by a human being about them and asked to justify their actions as nicely as possible, they may second guess their strategy and try to avoid an awkward convo like this one in the future.

This is the way, as someone who's been in this situation. And be charitable, as you acknowledged you might be missing some cues or context here. No need to complain to the parents for this sort of stuff.

[BrowsingTLS]

idk that reporting to HR is a good move, roping in HR is often (fairly or not) seen as a nuclear move.

Hard to imagine reporting something to HR ever ending well if you're not a partner or highly, highly, highly esteemed and sought after senior associate who is recognized by partners as on track to make partner.