1L interested in hearing from trial lawyers Forum

[axiomaticapiary]

I am a 1L at GULC interested in becoming a trial lawyer. I would love to hear from lawyers who in their day to day are taking depositions, arguing motions, preparing witnesses, and trying cases in courtrooms about their path to get there, your experiences in the profession and any advice you would give a 1L about how to develop the skills to do this and get substantial experience early on. Thanks for your time

[Anonymous User]

Become a PD or ADA.

Maybe more seriously, many public defender/local prosecutor offices will let you stand up in court under a student practice rule, and give you things to do while you're in school. You can look into your school's clinics as well as look into interning directly for these agencies. And if you end up in one of these positions after graduation, you will be in court ALL the time.

(okay, the reference to depositions suggests something other than criminal law; if so, I think you need to look for small firms. Depending on your interests/circumstances that could be an elite litigation boutique, or it could be what this board calls shitlaw. Still not sure if the experience you get at an elite boutique is really going to match what you're looking for, but I don't work for one so others will have to weigh in.)

And even if you don't want to do criminal law post-grad, doing criminal law internships/clinics during school is probably the best way to get in the courtroom as a student. Or check out other legal-aid kinds of clinics as well. At least in my experience they tended to be more focused around other kinds of tribunals - immigration, housing, domestic relations, benefits, etc; but they could still be very helpful litigation-adjacent experience. It will depend so check on the specific parameters of the specific clinic to figure out what they'll offer. If you go to the clinic coordinators and ask "which of these will get me in court the most" I'm sure someone will be able to tell you.

If you wanted to aim for an elite lit boutique post-grad, though, you might still need to try for a more traditional summer associate gig for your 2L summer. Again, someone else will have to weigh in on that.

[Anonymous User]

I'm at an elite white collar boutique and while what you describe is not my day to day, it happens way more often than my friends in biglaw, who almost never do the things you describe. Being a PD or ADA is where you will do that kind of work the most, but if that doesn't appeal to you, the pp was right that a lit boutique might be the best fit. There's a few paths to lit boutiques -- most common seems to be a few years in big law and then lateral, followed closely by clerkship --> boutique. I was PI focused in law school so did not do a 2L summer job at a firm (and came to the boutique straight off two clerkships, so this is the only firm I have been in) and it didn't hurt me. But while you are in school you should definitely do clinics, and probably focus within that on defense clinics, whether state or federal. Clinics are the only thing in law school that gives you a sense of what practice will be like. Overall, though, the kind of work you describe, in my experience, is way more common on the criminal side, and criminal law is not for everyone, so definitely something to explore in school.

[Elvis_Dumervil]

I am a 1L at GULC interested in becoming a trial lawyer. I would love to hear from lawyers who in their day to day are taking depositions, arguing motions, preparing witnesses, and trying cases in courtrooms about their path to get there, your experiences in the profession and any advice you would give a 1L about how to develop the skills to do this and get substantial experience early on. Thanks for your time

The points made above are all good. To get substantial experience early on, if you go to biglaw you'd want to get involved in pro bono. That's most likely to get you that sort of experience relatively early.

[Anonymous User]

I'm at an elite white collar boutique and while what you describe is not my day to day, it happens way more often than my friends in biglaw, who almost never do the things you describe. Being a PD or ADA is where you will do that kind of work the most, but if that doesn't appeal to you, the pp was right that a lit boutique might be the best fit. There's a few paths to lit boutiques -- most common seems to be a few years in big law and then lateral, followed closely by clerkship --> boutique. I was PI focused in law school so did not do a 2L summer job at a firm (and came to the boutique straight off two clerkships, so this is the only firm I have been in) and it didn't hurt me. But while you are in school you should definitely do clinics, and probably focus within that on defense clinics, whether state or federal. Clinics are the only thing in law school that gives you a sense of what practice will be like. Overall, though, the kind of work you describe, in my experience, is way more common on the criminal side, and criminal law is not for everyone, so definitely something to explore in school.

Agreed with this, except a few years in BL as a junior is really soul-sucking. If you are looking for career fulfillment, get good grades, a clerkship or two, and then do the clerkship/PD/ADA to lit boutique route and avoid BL entirely.

[axiomaticapiary]

Thanks all for the advice. It is true that I have not been thinking of pursuing criminal law, but I will look into criminal law opportunities as it does seem that you get more courtroom experience there than you would in biglaw. I will try to take a clinic as well (GULC has tons of clinics). I have not given a ton of thought to the criminal side of things but maybe it would be right for me.

If possible, a lit boutique seems like a great choice in the long term, probably preferable for me to criminal law. I'm sure a smaller firm would give me more of these opportunities and I would be willing to take a pay cut from biglaw to do so. So these firms typically do not hire right out of school? If that were my goal, should I focus instead on becoming a good candidate to clerk (or getting a 2L SA with the goal of lateraling?)

[Anonymous User]

If possible, a lit boutique seems like a great choice in the long term, probably preferable for me to criminal law. I'm sure a smaller firm would give me more of these opportunities and I would be willing to take a pay cut from biglaw to do so. So these firms typically do not hire right out of school? If that were my goal, should I focus instead on becoming a good candidate to clerk (or getting a 2L SA with the goal of lateraling?)

I think for a good lit boutique you would be best off doing both, but definitely clerking. If you're interested in being in the courtroom, you should clerk, anyway.

[Anonymous User]

If possible, a lit boutique seems like a great choice in the long term, probably preferable for me to criminal law. I'm sure a smaller firm would give me more of these opportunities and I would be willing to take a pay cut from biglaw to do so. So these firms typically do not hire right out of school? If that were my goal, should I focus instead on becoming a good candidate to clerk (or getting a 2L SA with the goal of lateraling?)

I would definitely do what you can to keep clerking an option (get good grades, do law review, develop relationships with professors who have the inside track with judges). But clerkship hiring is ultimately pretty idiosyncratic, so you can't put all your eggs in that basket, and everything you do to prep for applying to clerkships will also help you secure a 2L SA. I'm the OP from above in white collar, and I think that white collar at a boutique is a great choice for someone who enjoys criminal work (and so gets to do a lot of the things you mentioned somewhat regularly) that has a strong human component but does not want to be a pd/ada (contrasting that with white collar work at big firms which mostly seems to be work for institutions, not individuals).

[Anonymous User]

Agree that a lit boutique is going to give you the most opportunities of the law firm word. I’m a third year, and in my first 12 months at a boutique, I examined a witness at trial, took three depos (including one only two months after joining the firm), wrote at least a dozen briefs, and second chaired countless hearings, depos, witness preps, etc. I think I’m a little bit of an outlier for my firm, but not a huge one

[Lacepiece23]

I’m six years out. I’ve tried two cases as first chair and have taken like 3 dozen deps or so.

I did my first 5 years in biglaw in a mass tort product liability defense group. That was great because even first years got to take deps.

I also tried two cases pro Bono without discovery and won one of them. I was a second year when I won’t my first federal jury trial.

Now, I have my own plaintiffs employment/civil rights law firm. I’ll try a lot more cases now and take even more deps. The best part about being a plaintiffs lawyer is that you can literally decide whether you want to be a trial lawyer or not.

A lot don’t so they have their clients settle. Some do, so they urge their clients to consider taking the case to trial. Employment/civil rights is nice because as long as you win a dollar, you get attorneys fees.

[axiomaticapiary]

I’m six years out. I’ve tried two cases as first chair and have taken like 3 dozen deps or so.

I did my first 5 years in biglaw in a mass tort product liability defense group. That was great because even first years got to take deps.

I also tried two cases pro Bono without discovery and won one of them. I was a second year when I won’t my first federal jury trial.

Now, I have my own plaintiffs employment/civil rights law firm. I’ll try a lot more cases now and take even more deps. The best part about being a plaintiffs lawyer is that you can literally decide whether you want to be a trial lawyer or not.

A lot don’t so they have their clients settle. Some do, so they urge their clients to consider taking the case to trial. Employment/civil rights is nice because as long as you win a dollar, you get attorneys fees.

Props to you, this sounds like a fascinating career path. Was it hard transitioning from biglaw defense to a plaintiffs firm on your own? How did you get clients?

[Lacepiece23]

I’m six years out. I’ve tried two cases as first chair and have taken like 3 dozen deps or so.

I did my first 5 years in biglaw in a mass tort product liability defense group. That was great because even first years got to take deps.

I also tried two cases pro Bono without discovery and won one of them. I was a second year when I won’t my first federal jury trial.

Now, I have my own plaintiffs employment/civil rights law firm. I’ll try a lot more cases now and take even more deps. The best part about being a plaintiffs lawyer is that you can literally decide whether you want to be a trial lawyer or not.

A lot don’t so they have their clients settle. Some do, so they urge their clients to consider taking the case to trial. Employment/civil rights is nice because as long as you win a dollar, you get attorneys fees.

Props to you, this sounds like a fascinating career path. Was it hard transitioning from biglaw defense to a plaintiffs firm on your own? How did you get clients?

I’ve done a thread on this that not many people were interested in lol. It wasn’t that hard.

If your mindset is that you want to do biglaw, save cash, then go and be a pd to try cases, you might as well try your hand at starting your own firm.

All you need is like six to eight months of money saved up and a real plan for getting cases. I do it through SEO. Most do it from referrals with other attorneys.

I generated six figures in revenue in my first year. I had a lot of things break my way. But I think you could reasonably expect to make a PD salary your first year and then eventually get back close to your biglaw salary.

The ceiling is pretty high too. I think I have a better chance at being a seven figure law firm than at equity partner. And I wake up and feel great about what I do.

I think being a plaintiffs attorney is the best job in law by far.

[thriller1122]

Echo the crim path mentioned above. I think that is probably the "easiest" way to get in the courtroom. I say that not to diminish what crim lawyers do, but rather because there are lots of opportunities and they do get into court. For me, I spent pretty much all of law school doing trial team and taking trial advocacy classes. My summers were spent working for firms with trial lawyers I wanted to learn from. Ultimately, I ended up looking up ACTL lawyers in my area and applying exclusively to litigation positions where I could work for them. I ended up at a litigation boutique where I have done a few depositions my first year and will be second chair at multiple high-stakes trials my second year. As I interviewed, I was very clear what I wanted to be a trial lawyer. It basically cut me out of any biglaw hiring. The partners didn't seem eager to hire a first year that wanted to be in court. However, I eventually ended up at a firm I love with decent money and great opportunities to become the trial lawyer I want to be.

[Anonymous User]

I’m six years out. I’ve tried two cases as first chair and have taken like 3 dozen deps or so.

I did my first 5 years in biglaw in a mass tort product liability defense group. That was great because even first years got to take deps.

I also tried two cases pro Bono without discovery and won one of them. I was a second year when I won’t my first federal jury trial.

Now, I have my own plaintiffs employment/civil rights law firm. I’ll try a lot more cases now and take even more deps. The best part about being a plaintiffs lawyer is that you can literally decide whether you want to be a trial lawyer or not.

A lot don’t so they have their clients settle. Some do, so they urge their clients to consider taking the case to trial. Employment/civil rights is nice because as long as you win a dollar, you get attorneys fees.

Props to you, this sounds like a fascinating career path. Was it hard transitioning from biglaw defense to a plaintiffs firm on your own? How did you get clients?

I’ve done a thread on this that not many people were interested in lol. It wasn’t that hard.

If your mindset is that you want to do biglaw, save cash, then go and be a pd to try cases, you might as well try your hand at starting your own firm.

All you need is like six to eight months of money saved up and a real plan for getting cases. I do it through SEO. Most do it from referrals with other attorneys.

I generated six figures in revenue in my first year. I had a lot of things break my way. But I think you could reasonably expect to make a PD salary your first year and then eventually get back close to your biglaw salary.

The ceiling is pretty high too. I think I have a better chance at being a seven figure law firm than at equity partner. And I wake up and feel great about what I do.

I think being a plaintiffs attorney is the best job in law by far.

This is hard to understand. Most plaintiffs lawyers I know admit that the majority of their cases are essentially not litigated in good faith, because most of their clients are injury clients who: 1. Went to special doctors who regularly work with plaintiffs lawyers, 2. Went to special chiropractors who regularly work with plaintiffs lawyers, and 3. Know they are overselling their injuries to squeeze money out of an insurance company.

This all sounds soul crushing to me.

[axiomaticapiary]

I’m six years out. I’ve tried two cases as first chair and have taken like 3 dozen deps or so.

I did my first 5 years in biglaw in a mass tort product liability defense group. That was great because even first years got to take deps.

I also tried two cases pro Bono without discovery and won one of them. I was a second year when I won’t my first federal jury trial.

Now, I have my own plaintiffs employment/civil rights law firm. I’ll try a lot more cases now and take even more deps. The best part about being a plaintiffs lawyer is that you can literally decide whether you want to be a trial lawyer or not.

A lot don’t so they have their clients settle. Some do, so they urge their clients to consider taking the case to trial. Employment/civil rights is nice because as long as you win a dollar, you get attorneys fees.

Props to you, this sounds like a fascinating career path. Was it hard transitioning from biglaw defense to a plaintiffs firm on your own? How did you get clients?

I’ve done a thread on this that not many people were interested in lol. It wasn’t that hard.

If your mindset is that you want to do biglaw, save cash, then go and be a pd to try cases, you might as well try your hand at starting your own firm.

All you need is like six to eight months of money saved up and a real plan for getting cases. I do it through SEO. Most do it from referrals with other attorneys.

I generated six figures in revenue in my first year. I had a lot of things break my way. But I think you could reasonably expect to make a PD salary your first year and then eventually get back close to your biglaw salary.

The ceiling is pretty high too. I think I have a better chance at being a seven figure law firm than at equity partner. And I wake up and feel great about what I do.

I think being a plaintiffs attorney is the best job in law by far.

Well done, I love the thought of owning my own firm someday. I spent my childhood watching my dad start and run small businesses. I will keep thinking about this option. I am going to be in some debt at graduation (on pace for around 120k) so I think it makes sense for me to do some biglaw and pay at least some of it down, but I will keep this in mind after maybe a year or two of biglaw.

I totally hear what everyone is saying about crim being an easier path to getting in the courtroom. I have not even taken Criminal Law the class yet so maybe I will love it. It was not my first thought of what to do in law but it definitely seems like a great option for those working in the courtroom.

[GavinMcG]

I think being a plaintiffs attorney is the best job in law by far.

This is hard to understand. Most plaintiffs lawyers I know admit that the majority of their cases are essentially not litigated in good faith, because most of their clients are injury clients who: 1. Went to special doctors who regularly work with plaintiffs lawyers, 2. Went to special chiropractors who regularly work with plaintiffs lawyers, and 3. Know they are overselling their injuries to squeeze money out of an insurance company.

This all sounds soul crushing to me.

IIRC, the quoted poster does employment and civil rights work. There's plenty of plaintiff-side work that isn't personal injury.

[axiomaticapiary]

I’m six years out. I’ve tried two cases as first chair and have taken like 3 dozen deps or so.

I did my first 5 years in biglaw in a mass tort product liability defense group. That was great because even first years got to take deps.

I also tried two cases pro Bono without discovery and won one of them. I was a second year when I won’t my first federal jury trial.

Now, I have my own plaintiffs employment/civil rights law firm. I’ll try a lot more cases now and take even more deps. The best part about being a plaintiffs lawyer is that you can literally decide whether you want to be a trial lawyer or not.

A lot don’t so they have their clients settle. Some do, so they urge their clients to consider taking the case to trial. Employment/civil rights is nice because as long as you win a dollar, you get attorneys fees.

Props to you, this sounds like a fascinating career path. Was it hard transitioning from biglaw defense to a plaintiffs firm on your own? How did you get clients?

I’ve done a thread on this that not many people were interested in lol. It wasn’t that hard.

If your mindset is that you want to do biglaw, save cash, then go and be a pd to try cases, you might as well try your hand at starting your own firm.

All you need is like six to eight months of money saved up and a real plan for getting cases. I do it through SEO. Most do it from referrals with other attorneys.

I generated six figures in revenue in my first year. I had a lot of things break my way. But I think you could reasonably expect to make a PD salary your first year and then eventually get back close to your biglaw salary.

The ceiling is pretty high too. I think I have a better chance at being a seven figure law firm than at equity partner. And I wake up and feel great about what I do.

I think being a plaintiffs attorney is the best job in law by far.

This is hard to understand. Most plaintiffs lawyers I know admit that the majority of their cases are essentially not litigated in good faith, because most of their clients are injury clients who: 1. Went to special doctors who regularly work with plaintiffs lawyers, 2. Went to special chiropractors who regularly work with plaintiffs lawyers, and 3. Know they are overselling their injuries to squeeze money out of an insurance company.

This all sounds soul crushing to me.

Pls no shit talk in this thread, it is for hearing from trial lawyers about being a trial lawyer only

[Lacepiece23]

I’m six years out. I’ve tried two cases as first chair and have taken like 3 dozen deps or so.

I did my first 5 years in biglaw in a mass tort product liability defense group. That was great because even first years got to take deps.

I also tried two cases pro Bono without discovery and won one of them. I was a second year when I won’t my first federal jury trial.

Now, I have my own plaintiffs employment/civil rights law firm. I’ll try a lot more cases now and take even more deps. The best part about being a plaintiffs lawyer is that you can literally decide whether you want to be a trial lawyer or not.

A lot don’t so they have their clients settle. Some do, so they urge their clients to consider taking the case to trial. Employment/civil rights is nice because as long as you win a dollar, you get attorneys fees.

Props to you, this sounds like a fascinating career path. Was it hard transitioning from biglaw defense to a plaintiffs firm on your own? How did you get clients?

I’ve done a thread on this that not many people were interested in lol. It wasn’t that hard.

If your mindset is that you want to do biglaw, save cash, then go and be a pd to try cases, you might as well try your hand at starting your own firm.

All you need is like six to eight months of money saved up and a real plan for getting cases. I do it through SEO. Most do it from referrals with other attorneys.

I generated six figures in revenue in my first year. I had a lot of things break my way. But I think you could reasonably expect to make a PD salary your first year and then eventually get back close to your biglaw salary.

The ceiling is pretty high too. I think I have a better chance at being a seven figure law firm than at equity partner. And I wake up and feel great about what I do.

I think being a plaintiffs attorney is the best job in law by far.

This is hard to understand. Most plaintiffs lawyers I know admit that the majority of their cases are essentially not litigated in good faith, because most of their clients are injury clients who: 1. Went to special doctors who regularly work with plaintiffs lawyers, 2. Went to special chiropractors who regularly work with plaintiffs lawyers, and 3. Know they are overselling their injuries to squeeze money out of an insurance company.

This all sounds soul crushing to me.

I don’t do PI. But I know a lot of PI lawyers and I really respect them. They have a hard job. And getting compensation for their clients is becoming increasing hard with mass tort reform and the spread of misinformation like injury victims are faking their injuries to get undeserved money.

The reality is that the vast majority of victims in these cases will have life altering injuries. A good PI lawyer maximizes the recovery because it’s so speculative how these injuries will affect someone on a day to day basis.

I actually deal with this a lot as as employment attorney. I’ve had numerous clients who were discriminated against after becoming disabled in some accident years ago.

Lastly, sure, there are unsavory parts to every aspect of law. But I’d take helping a person that might not, on an off chance, not deserve it vs. a corporation that rarely does.

[Lacepiece23]

I’m six years out. I’ve tried two cases as first chair and have taken like 3 dozen deps or so.

I did my first 5 years in biglaw in a mass tort product liability defense group. That was great because even first years got to take deps.

I also tried two cases pro Bono without discovery and won one of them. I was a second year when I won’t my first federal jury trial.

Now, I have my own plaintiffs employment/civil rights law firm. I’ll try a lot more cases now and take even more deps. The best part about being a plaintiffs lawyer is that you can literally decide whether you want to be a trial lawyer or not.

A lot don’t so they have their clients settle. Some do, so they urge their clients to consider taking the case to trial. Employment/civil rights is nice because as long as you win a dollar, you get attorneys fees.

Props to you, this sounds like a fascinating career path. Was it hard transitioning from biglaw defense to a plaintiffs firm on your own? How did you get clients?

I’ve done a thread on this that not many people were interested in lol. It wasn’t that hard.

If your mindset is that you want to do biglaw, save cash, then go and be a pd to try cases, you might as well try your hand at starting your own firm.

All you need is like six to eight months of money saved up and a real plan for getting cases. I do it through SEO. Most do it from referrals with other attorneys.

I generated six figures in revenue in my first year. I had a lot of things break my way. But I think you could reasonably expect to make a PD salary your first year and then eventually get back close to your biglaw salary.

The ceiling is pretty high too. I think I have a better chance at being a seven figure law firm than at equity partner. And I wake up and feel great about what I do.

I think being a plaintiffs attorney is the best job in law by far.

Well done, I love the thought of owning my own firm someday. I spent my childhood watching my dad start and run small businesses. I will keep thinking about this option. I am going to be in some debt at graduation (on pace for around 120k) so I think it makes sense for me to do some biglaw and pay at least some of it down, but I will keep this in mind after maybe a year or two of biglaw.

I totally hear what everyone is saying about crim being an easier path to getting in the courtroom. I have not even taken Criminal Law the class yet so maybe I will love it. It was not my first thought of what to do in law but it definitely seems like a great option for those working in the courtroom.

I’d just make sure you like crim. Doing it just for the trials will not make you happy. I thought of doing that. But then as I got out, I realized that: 1) I didn’t like the idea of putting people in jail; 2) I didn’t like the idea of having hundreds of case files; 3) I didn’t like the idea of not having time to write motions; 4) I wanted to make decent money; and 5) it seemed exhausting always being on talking to people every day. I sometimes like not doing that.

Pros and cons to everything.

[Anonymous User]

While it is heartening to see such positive responses on a TLS thread, I’ll offer my experience as the dissenting view. Like OP, as a law student I told myself (and many a firm hiring partner) that I wanted to be a trial lawyer. And I did the right things to make that happen. It might have been easier at my law school than at GULC, but only by a matter of degree. I followed the on brand fed clerkships -> elite litigation shop route; and after my fourth trial last year, decided that all things considered I hated it, so I quit.

Granted, I was not first chair at those trials, and they were large commercial cases where the partners led, not pro bono; but in discovery I took depositions, except for the arbitrations, and at trial I prepped fact and expert witnesses, developed and wrote direct and cross exam outlines, and second chaired for my witnesses on hearing days. Not counting chambers, I’ve spent cumulatively ~14 weeks sitting in trial (two of those weeks virtually due to pandemic), and countless hours preparing for them.

What I decided I hated about trials is that it brings out the worst in our profession. First, the worst of the people: the partners and counsel reach peak stress during trials and become the most egregious versions of their biglaw selves. I’ve never been yelled and screeched at in a professional environment like I was at trial. Everyone is on edge and primed to consider every trivial issue paramount, and every deadline is unreasonable. I’ve never felt more disrespected as a colleague and human. Second, the hours. My only 300+ hour months have been during trials (and I’ve had several of those). I just can’t do it anymore; nothing is worth that especially now that I have a family. Third, the “law” and legal work product is hardly ever more abused and ignored than during trials, especially arbitration hearings. I don’t really care about this part; it’s all bullshit; but I’ve found that I’d rather be writing a brief or article or position paper or expert report. There are too many other downsides to list — for example, you have to drop everything else you’re working on when a trial approaches, even if it’s a much more interesting case with better people — but these are my greatest hits.

Having your own firm or serving as lead counsel in small criminal or pro Bono matters would be an entirely different experience, and I’m not purporting to speak to that experience. But I quickly burned out of the “trial lawyer” mythology at the lit boutique / Biglaw level, and you really have to know that you’re that particular brand of masochist to spend your life—because it will literally consume your whole life—in that environment.

[Anonymous User]

I’m in government, not biglaw, but I don’t think there’s any way to get around the fact that trial eats your life and is exhausting. Smaller trials are obviously better because the excitement/adrenaline rush can sustain you in a way that just doesn’t work for 2-3 weeks at a time or more, but it’s just really draining.

I tend to find everyone pretty collegial during trial - a lot of shared experience in the trenches kind of thing - but the hierarchy in my government office is pretty flat and we’re not dealing with private clients who have lots of money riding on the outcome. There are definitely other stressors related to getting it right, but there isn’t the associate/partner dynamic going on.

And we take the law/legal work product part really seriously during trial too.

None of that is to say anything you’ve said is inaccurate in other contexts, of course, and it makes an exhausting time way worse. And I definitely know people who’ve left litigation because they hate trials.

Of course there are also those people who thrive on them, so it’s pretty personality specific.

[Lacepiece23]

While it is heartening to see such positive responses on a TLS thread, I’ll offer my experience as the dissenting view. Like OP, as a law student I told myself (and many a firm hiring partner) that I wanted to be a trial lawyer. And I did the right things to make that happen. It might have been easier at my law school than at GULC, but only by a matter of degree. I followed the on brand fed clerkships -> elite litigation shop route; and after my fourth trial last year, decided that all things considered I hated it, so I quit.

Granted, I was not first chair at those trials, and they were large commercial cases where the partners led, not pro bono; but in discovery I took depositions, except for the arbitrations, and at trial I prepped fact and expert witnesses, developed and wrote direct and cross exam outlines, and second chaired for my witnesses on hearing days. Not counting chambers, I’ve spent cumulatively ~14 weeks sitting in trial (two of those weeks virtually due to pandemic), and countless hours preparing for them.

What I decided I hated about trials is that it brings out the worst in our profession. First, the worst of the people: the partners and counsel reach peak stress during trials and become the most egregious versions of their biglaw selves. I’ve never been yelled and screeched at in a professional environment like I was at trial. Everyone is on edge and primed to consider every trivial issue paramount, and every deadline is unreasonable. I’ve never felt more disrespected as a colleague and human. Second, the hours. My only 300+ hour months have been during trials (and I’ve had several of those). I just can’t do it anymore; nothing is worth that especially now that I have a family. Third, the “law” and legal work product is hardly ever more abused and ignored than during trials, especially arbitration hearings. I don’t really care about this part; it’s all bullshit; but I’ve found that I’d rather be writing a brief or article or position paper or expert report. There are too many other downsides to list — for example, you have to drop everything else you’re working on when a trial approaches, even if it’s a much more interesting case with better people — but these are my greatest hits.

Having your own firm or serving as lead counsel in small criminal or pro Bono matters would be an entirely different experience, and I’m not purporting to speak to that experience. But I quickly burned out of the “trial lawyer” mythology at the lit boutique / Biglaw level, and you really have to know that you’re that particular brand of masochist to spend your life—because it will literally consume your whole life—in that environment.

There's so much truth here. I was on a trial team for a small matter in biglaw, and I hated my role. And then you notice that a lot of these biglaw "superstars" kind of suck at it anyway. And they obsess over the dumbest shit because it's still biglaw at the end of the day.

If you really want to be a trial lawyer, I think you kind of got to accept that the way to go is something like PI, crim, civil rights, employment, etc. Bet the company trials sound like hell on earth and don't even seem all that interesting.

It's almost impossible to have it all in our profession. But if you're willing to give up the prestige, you can still make good money, try cases, and have a decent lifestyle.

[axiomaticapiary]

While it is heartening to see such positive responses on a TLS thread, I’ll offer my experience as the dissenting view. Like OP, as a law student I told myself (and many a firm hiring partner) that I wanted to be a trial lawyer. And I did the right things to make that happen. It might have been easier at my law school than at GULC, but only by a matter of degree. I followed the on brand fed clerkships -> elite litigation shop route; and after my fourth trial last year, decided that all things considered I hated it, so I quit.

Granted, I was not first chair at those trials, and they were large commercial cases where the partners led, not pro bono; but in discovery I took depositions, except for the arbitrations, and at trial I prepped fact and expert witnesses, developed and wrote direct and cross exam outlines, and second chaired for my witnesses on hearing days. Not counting chambers, I’ve spent cumulatively ~14 weeks sitting in trial (two of those weeks virtually due to pandemic), and countless hours preparing for them.

What I decided I hated about trials is that it brings out the worst in our profession. First, the worst of the people: the partners and counsel reach peak stress during trials and become the most egregious versions of their biglaw selves. I’ve never been yelled and screeched at in a professional environment like I was at trial. Everyone is on edge and primed to consider every trivial issue paramount, and every deadline is unreasonable. I’ve never felt more disrespected as a colleague and human. Second, the hours. My only 300+ hour months have been during trials (and I’ve had several of those). I just can’t do it anymore; nothing is worth that especially now that I have a family. Third, the “law” and legal work product is hardly ever more abused and ignored than during trials, especially arbitration hearings. I don’t really care about this part; it’s all bullshit; but I’ve found that I’d rather be writing a brief or article or position paper or expert report. There are too many other downsides to list — for example, you have to drop everything else you’re working on when a trial approaches, even if it’s a much more interesting case with better people — but these are my greatest hits.

Having your own firm or serving as lead counsel in small criminal or pro Bono matters would be an entirely different experience, and I’m not purporting to speak to that experience. But I quickly burned out of the “trial lawyer” mythology at the lit boutique / Biglaw level, and you really have to know that you’re that particular brand of masochist to spend your life—because it will literally consume your whole life—in that environment.

I hear this perspective, it definitely sounds demoralizing and I’m sorry to hear you were “disrespected as a human.” I will just hope that some of these issues are unique to the big commercial lawsuits and not inherently a part of trying cases in other contexts which I am also open to. I have no guarantee that I will have the grades to end up at an elite lit boutique anyway, although I can’t deny that I have become seduced reading about the legends of the profession like Steve Susman and David Boies and would have a hard time saying no if I did.

[Anonymous User]

+1 to biglaw people not necessarily being the best; obviously like Morgan Chu and Steve Susman are/were monsters but as a clerk I saw some really excellent advocates you’ve never heard of—FPDs, small-law CJA panel members, people in non-prestige government offices with lots of reps. After all some of the best trial lawyers, period are shitlawy catastrophic personal injury folks like Nick Rowley. Most biglaw partners I saw were good but not like electric or anything.