Is Wachtell really paying first year associates $400k? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'll simplify my point to the following hopefully non-controversial claim: Hours expectations at CSM and Wachtell are materially higher than the rest of the V100.

Whether billables are so much higher at Wachtell that the firm actually pays *less* per hour than the rest of the V100 may vary on a case-by-case basis, but I know for a fact that *some* Wachtell associates are being paid less per-hour than other V100 associates. I also know for a fact that *many* (if not most) CSM associates are being paid less per-hour than other V100 associates.

This is something I think law students and laterals should be aware of. I find it intriguing that merely pointing it out inspires a flurry of misleading, defensive posts. The lady doth protest too much...

[The Lsat Airbender]

The bailey:

Wachtell's per-hour pay may be the lowest in the V100. Virtually everyone bills over 4000 hours per year. FOUR. THOUSAND. No thank you. Cravath & Wachtell subject their associates to a unique type of misery, with extremely poor work-life balance and a joyless, fear-driven culture.

The motte:

Hours expectations at CSM and Wachtell are materially higher than the rest of the V100.

[Anonymous User]

I'll simplify my point to the following hopefully non-controversial claim: Hours expectations at CSM and Wachtell are materially higher than the rest of the V100.

Whether billables are so much higher at Wachtell that the firm actually pays *less* per hour than the rest of the V100 may vary on a case-by-case basis, but I know for a fact that *some* Wachtell associates are being paid less per-hour than other V100 associates. I also know for a fact that *many* (if not most) CSM associates are being paid less per-hour than other V100 associates.

This is something I think law students and laterals should be aware of. I find it intriguing that merely pointing it out inspires a flurry of misleading, defensive posts. The lady doth protest too much...

Posting as someone with knowledge and hence anon. The above poster’s math and conclusions would be incorrect even assuming wlrk associates billed 3k on average and eg, Cravath or DPW associate billed 2k on average. The idea that there are more than a couple people at the firm approaching 4K hours in any given year is lol. And the idea that the average noncorp associate averages 3k hours a year over the span of their career at the firm is also lol. Not saying 2200/2300 is realistic at WLRK (or really any of its peers) but 4K is just LOL

[ExpOriental]

I'll simplify my point to the following hopefully non-controversial claim: Hours expectations at CSM and Wachtell are materially higher than the rest of the V100.

Whether billables are so much higher at Wachtell that the firm actually pays *less* per hour than the rest of the V100 may vary on a case-by-case basis, but I know for a fact that *some* Wachtell associates are being paid less per-hour than other V100 associates. I also know for a fact that *many* (if not most) CSM associates are being paid less per-hour than other V100 associates.

This is something I think law students and laterals should be aware of. I find it intriguing that merely pointing it out inspires a flurry of misleading, defensive posts. The lady doth protest too much...

Thank you for service.

Since we're sharing facts, I will also share a fact.

At Kirkland, every summer associate gets a puppy to take care of at the start of the program. To get a return offer, each must shoot their respective puppy at the end of the summer.

This is a fact. We all agree that it is, because I have called it a fact multiple times.

I just think this is something that law students and laterals should be aware of. Anyone who pushes back on this fact is simply being defensive, and is most likely a puppy shooter.

[Anonymous User]

I'll simplify my point to the following hopefully non-controversial claim: Hours expectations at CSM and Wachtell are materially higher than the rest of the V100.

Whether billables are so much higher at Wachtell that the firm actually pays *less* per hour than the rest of the V100 may vary on a case-by-case basis, but I know for a fact that *some* Wachtell associates are being paid less per-hour than other V100 associates. I also know for a fact that *many* (if not most) CSM associates are being paid less per-hour than other V100 associates.

This is something I think law students and laterals should be aware of. I find it intriguing that merely pointing it out inspires a flurry of misleading, defensive posts. The lady doth protest too much...

Thank you for service.

Since we're sharing facts, I will also share a fact.

At Kirkland, every summer associate gets a puppy to take care of at the start of the program. To get a return offer, each must shoot their respective puppy at the end of the summer.

This is a fact. We all agree that it is, because I have called it a fact multiple times.

I just think this is something that law students and laterals should be aware of. Anyone who pushes back on this fact is simply being defensive, and is most likely a puppy shooter.

The only edit I would suggest in this post is to correct the name of the Kirlkand firm.

[Buglaw]

I'll simplify my point to the following hopefully non-controversial claim: Hours expectations at CSM and Wachtell are materially higher than the rest of the V100.

Whether billables are so much higher at Wachtell that the firm actually pays *less* per hour than the rest of the V100 may vary on a case-by-case basis, but I know for a fact that *some* Wachtell associates are being paid less per-hour than other V100 associates. I also know for a fact that *many* (if not most) CSM associates are being paid less per-hour than other V100 associates.

This is something I think law students and laterals should be aware of. I find it intriguing that merely pointing it out inspires a flurry of misleading, defensive posts. The lady doth protest too much...

Thank you for service.

Since we're sharing facts, I will also share a fact.

At Kirkland, every summer associate gets a puppy to take care of at the start of the program. To get a return offer, each must shoot their respective puppy at the end of the summer.

This is a fact. We all agree that it is, because I have called it a fact multiple times.

I just think this is something that law students and laterals should be aware of. Anyone who pushes back on this fact is simply being defensive, and is most likely a puppy shooter.

The only edit I would suggest in this post is to correct the name of the Kirlkand firm.

Can’t dispute the some claim. I personally know someone billed 1100 hours one year (he got fired the next year, but still). He probably made more per hour than the median Wachtell associate (cause he worked so few hours). So, some Wachtell associates make less per hour than some v100 associates. This is a long cry from the dumb point made earlier that expectations are over 4K hours. It’s also true that CSM makes less per hour than the vast majority of v100 firms, but no one claimed otherwise and this has been known for the 7 years I’ve been practicing and never disputed.

It’s also actually a fact that the median associate at Wachtell makes more than the median associates at other v100 firms on a per hour basis. This should not be a controversial opinion either.

[Anonymous User]

The problem with the hourly pay stuff (even without the lies etc) is that we're not paid hourly. I can't go find another job on top of my non-WLRK biglaw that would pay me an extra 200k. If you want to make WLRK money, you need to put in WLRK hours, if you can even get hired there, which nearly all of us cannot.

[Anonymous User]

I'll simplify my point to the following hopefully non-controversial claim: Hours expectations at CSM and Wachtell are materially higher than the rest of the V100.

How did Cravath get in this discussion at all? Wachtell is by far the most selective firm, #1 every year, and it pays associates like it. Cravath is where you go if you want to get paid less than dozens of its peer firms. A high-billing senior associate (NSP) at Kirkland will can make $100k more than their Cravath peer. As others have pointed out more eloquently, I simply do not believe Cravath is in the same universe as Wachtell in terms of work expectations, nor is it meaningfully different on hours from its top-firm peers that have sweatshop reputations (e.g. Kirkland). But it is meaningfully different on comp!

[Anonymous User]

The problem with the hourly pay stuff (even without the lies etc) is that we're not paid hourly. I can't go find another job on top of my non-WLRK biglaw that would pay me an extra 200k. If you want to make WLRK money, you need to put in WLRK hours, if you can even get hired there, which nearly all of us cannot.

This is true. The purpose of my post was simply to note that the extra pay comes at a cost (one I think many don't fully appreciate or factor into their analysis of firm compensation). There is a massive difference between billing 2100 and billing 3000-4000. The former makes it possible to maintain some semblance of life, while the latter is utterly life-destroying IMO.

[The Lsat Airbender]

The purpose of my post was simply to note that the extra pay comes at a cost (one I think many don't fully appreciate or factor into their analysis of firm compensation). There is a massive difference between billing 2100 and billing 3000-4000. The former makes it possible to maintain some semblance of life, while the latter is utterly life-destroying IMO.

Whom are you fighting here? It's not like anyone actually makes it to the threshold is laboring under the illusion that they'll bill <2000/year. People who meet their school/grades requirements, yet still choose corporate, want to work that hard; if they didn't, they would instead choose DC regulatory or a west-coast animal-rights boutique or something.

People are disagreeing with you because you keep making asinine references to "4000 hours", not because they think working at a place like that is a free lunch with no downsides. If you really just wanted to voice your opinion that nobody should work at WLRK (or CSM/Quinn/whoever else didn't give you a callback), bizarre to do that anon.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for service.

Since we're sharing facts, I will also share a fact.

At Kirkland, every summer associate gets a puppy to take care of at the start of the program. To get a return offer, each must shoot their respective puppy at the end of the summer.

This is a fact. We all agree that it is, because I have called it a fact multiple times.

I just think this is something that law students and laterals should be aware of. Anyone who pushes back on this fact is simply being defensive, and is most likely a puppy shooter.

Just to be clear to those who might not realize, this is either an attempted joke or is just bullshit. You don’t have to shoot the dog. you strangle it.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for service.

Since we're sharing facts, I will also share a fact.

At Kirkland, every summer associate gets a puppy to take care of at the start of the program. To get a return offer, each must shoot their respective puppy at the end of the summer.

This is a fact. We all agree that it is, because I have called it a fact multiple times.

I just think this is something that law students and laterals should be aware of. Anyone who pushes back on this fact is simply being defensive, and is most likely a puppy shooter.

Just to be clear to those who might not realize, this is either an attempted joke or is just bullshit. You don’t have to shoot the dog. you strangle it.

Yes, thank you!! I'm a Kirkland corporate associate and am tired of all the lies and bullshit ITT. We had to strangle them, not shoot them. It varies by practice group and office though, so maybe the litigators got to use a gun, idk.