BL-->ADA-->USAO? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi everyone. I'm wondering if anyone knows mid/senior associates that left Biglaw for an ADA position, did that for a few years, and then went to the USAO. In a big market, like SF/NYC, etc. Just curious if this is a viable career path if one wants it (esp. if someone doesn't get USAO off the bat). Thanks in advance for your prophetic responses. Anon because this relates to potential career decisions that I'd rather keep private.

[Anonymous User]

I did this as a junior in a secondary market. I don't know anyone else who followed the same trajectory, but it worked out well for me.

[andythefir]

I know someone who did this, but it wasn’t in those markets. It’s hard to really get how few people work at SDNY, and NDCA is even more out of whack. NDCA regularly posts unpaid jobs that require experience because there are so many more folks who want to work there than there are people they can employ.

If your resume is perfect, the stars still need to align with which division within an office is hiring, US Attorney preferences, profile of people who did well/terribly in that office recently, politics of hiring your demographic, etc. The other issue is you only get so many shots because you turn into a pumpkin at year 7 or so. So if the US Attorney for your years 3-7 out of law school only hires clerks and you didn’t clerk or only hires Ivy League grads or whatever, you’re out of luck.

If your resume is strong and you’re willing to apply everywhere, you’ll probably catch on somewhere. If you have eyes on only one office, and especially SDNY or NDCA, it’s considerably more difficult.

[Anonymous User]

I guess my concern with this path would be that it's hard to transition back to a firm once you are an ADA, so unless you would be happy staying in the ADA role if the USAO didn't work out, you're a bit stuck. I think this is why more people do BL --> boutique --> USAO.

[Anonymous User]

I guess my concern with this path would be that it's hard to transition back to a firm once you are an ADA, so unless you would be happy staying in the ADA role if the USAO didn't work out, you're a bit stuck. I think this is why more people do BL --> boutique --> USAO.

Yeah, this is what you have to consider, because an AUSA gig is hard to count on, especially on a specific timeline and if you’re targeting specific offices like SDNY/NDCA. If you know you only want to do the ADA gig for a few years you might want to think about what other exits might be (frankly, private criminal defense is a big one).

I disagree that you turn into a pumpkin after 7 years, though. Again, it’s going to depend on the policy/preference of the office where you’re applying. I’m an AUSA and know plenty of people with 7+ years of experience who’ve gotten AUSA gigs. There may well be offices that do have that kind of a cut off, but it’s never come up in the settings I’ve been in, or when I’ve been involved with hiring (which is not a ton, but there were senior candidates considered without any reference to salary caps).

FWIW, I haven’t seen this particular path (BL -> ADA) among AUSAs I’ve met, but I think in part it’s because the pay cut is usually so huge (much bigger than BL -> AUSA), and it’s usually not necessary. You can get an AUSA gig out of biglaw, or out of an ADA gig, so you don’t really need to combine the two. If you want to do so for your own reasons/satisfaction, that’s a completely different issue, and I don’t think a USAO would have any issue with this background, I just don’t see it very often if at all.

[Anonymous User]

Apologies for the minor derailment but what about a path like

Fedclerk —> Ada 2-3 years —> market biglaw white collar/commercial lit for 3-5 years?

Or maybe reverse Ada and fedclerk if it makes a difference.

Shoot for competitive metro district but not quite at SDNY/edny level.

How do you think that would play?

Anon for obvious reasons

[andythefir]

Apologies for the minor derailment but what about a path like

Fedclerk —> Ada 2-3 years —> market biglaw white collar/commercial lit for 3-5 years?

Or maybe reverse Ada and fedclerk if it makes a difference.

Shoot for competitive metro district but not quite at SDNY/edny level.

How do you think that would play?

Anon for obvious reasons

I think the issues would be (1) getting hired by a biglaw firm as a line ADA and (2) in order to really acclimate as either ADA or in biglaw would each take 3+ years, so you’d be hitting 7 years.

It’s not impossible to get hired at 7+ years out, just like it’s not impossible to get hired without a fed clerkship. But 7+ years is a liability like no trial experience that may or may not bite a specific application.

[Anonymous User]

Apologies for the minor derailment but what about a path like

Fedclerk —> Ada 2-3 years —> market biglaw white collar/commercial lit for 3-5 years?

Or maybe reverse Ada and fedclerk if it makes a difference.

Shoot for competitive metro district but not quite at SDNY/edny level.

How do you think that would play?

Anon for obvious reasons

I feel like I've commented on this before, but there's nothing that would be a problem about this path. The biggest issue I could foresee is that leaving state prosecution to go to biglaw might raise questions about whether you really want to go back to the public sector - if you left state prosecution because you didn't like it, are you really going to like federal prosecution better? If you left for the money, are you going to be happy with an AUSA salary? But overall, you apply, highlighting the things that you've done that make you a good candidate.

I don't begrudge people asking "what about this path, what about this path," I get that it's natural to want to know that. But I don't think there's one right path. There are a couple of well-trod paths (clerk --> BL --> AUSA or ADA with lots of felony trials --> AUSA), but they are very generic. Really I think the overall question people should be asking themselves is more like: what have I done that gives me relevant skills for/shows my dedication to what an AUSA gig requires? Ideally, the perfect candidate would demonstrate great analytical ability and writing chops, a genuine commitment to public service and interest/experience in criminal justice, litigation and/or trial skills, an understanding of the federal system, the ability to get along with people, and the work ethic/organization skills to successfully juggle what's often a heavy workload and run one's own cases. Also probably the amorphous "judgment." To the extent that an applicant doesn't currently have work experience demonstrating all those things, they need to be able to show their potential.

So an experienced ADA automatically gets points for the public service/CJ and litigation/trial skills, as well as probably juggling a heavy case load/running their own cases. They will probably have to work harder to prove the writing/analytical ability, getting the federal system, and maybe getting along with people. If the ADA has a federal clerkship, that would get them points for a lot of what an ADA isn't automatically going to have.

A BL associate (especially if they fed clerked) is probably going to automatically get points for writing/analytical ability, work ethic/ability to juggle a heavy case load, and probably also understanding the federal system. They will probably have to look for other ways to prove the dedication to public service/CJ, litigation/trial skills, and maybe getting along with people (also maybe being able to run their own cases). Doing a detail to a local prosecution office or pro bono can help demonstrate the other stuff.

And to some extent, anything a candidate doesn't already have can be made up for by being really thoughtful about what the work would entail and how you'd approach learning it. That might not get you past an equally qualified candidate who already has experience you lack, but it can, depending on your overall application.

There are definitely going to be offices that favor one path or the other, for a whole bunch of reasons, so if you're trying to get into a specific office the most valuable info is to talk to people who do or have worked there. But what it boils down to is that USAOs are looking for people who have the ability to do this specific job, not just tick off specific boxes. Some hiring authorities/offices will have strong opinions on which specific experiences best give you the ability to do this job, and you may not be able to change their minds, and sometimes that's just how it goes. But I do think in the end the goal is to hire the best AUSA, whatever experience actually got them to that point.

[12YrsAnAssociate]

I think any path you take should take into account that there's no sure bet to get an AUSA offer. So if you'll be happy as a career ADA, even if you never land at a USAO, then do it.

For background, I'm a double federal clerk (D.Ct. and COA), I externed at a USAO, worked at a v20-ish firm, early on I worked on several criminal/white collar matters, I did pro bono criminal defense cases with the CJA panel, have trial experience, and although I landed interviews at the USAOs in SDNY, CDCA, and DDC, and at several DOJ components, I was never able to turn the interviews into jobs. Maybe I'm a shitty interviewer. But also, every time I interviewed there was someone coming out before me, and waiting to go in after me, and the interviewers were sitting behind at a stack of resumes while I was in my interviews. Bottom line: it's a tough job to get.

I quit even applying a year or so ago because I can't even land interviews any more, and when I do, there's a major sense of skepticism that I'd want to become a prosecutor now as a billionth year associate.

[nyc2020]

I’m really sorry to hear that. What a discouraging experience. May I ask: When you applied, did you have your judges and law partners (former AUSAs) to call the USAOs on your behalf?

[12YrsAnAssociate]

I’m really sorry to hear that. What a discouraging experience. May I ask: When you applied, did you have your judges and law partners (former AUSAs) to call the USAOs on your behalf?

One judge I clerked for was a former AUSA, so he wrote one and said I was one of the top 3 clerks he ever had. The other judge was very old at the time, and he had his secretaries send out letters, which tended to be copy and paste form letters. So quite frankly, that letter sucked and I stopped asking him for one. One former clerk of his told me she used to push back and make the secretary put better things in the form letter, but I was so grateful that he gave me a clerkship that I didn't think that was my place. The criminal chief of the AUSA I externed in also wrote a very good letter. I didn't get partners to write on my behalf because I didn't want them to think I was looking to leave.

It's fine. I'm not at all discouraged by it. It's a path that I thought I wanted but it didn't pan out, which is life. I'm not a pro athlete or an astronaut either. The point is that you shouldn't count on landing a job at a premier USAO because it's a hard job to get.