Stealth Layoff Forum

[Anonymous User]

3rd year in a V50 in major market. Just informed I have 4 months to find new position due to group being slow. All my reviews have been positive and I've good relationships with seniors and partners.

I was essentially told my workload would be reduced to give me time to find work, and a couple partners offered to help me find a new position.

I'm fortunate enough to have plenty of savings, and I'm not interested in staying in biglaw. Would it be ludicrous to ask for 2 months severance pay upfront and leave now, instead of staying on for 4 months in reduced capacity? I don't know why they would go for it, but is it worth asking?

[Buglaw]

Yes, that would be dumb. Just stop working much/at all. It's not uncommon for people who got the talk to do that.

I'm sure they would take you up on the offer, bit not sure why you would give up 2 more months pay.

[Anonymous User]

3rd year in a V50 in major market. Just informed I have 4 months to find new position due to group being slow. All my reviews have been positive and I've good relationships with seniors and partners.

I was essentially told my workload would be reduced to give me time to find work, and a couple partners offered to help me find a new position.

I'm fortunate enough to have plenty of savings, and I'm not interested in staying in biglaw. Would it be ludicrous to ask for 2 months severance pay upfront and leave now, instead of staying on for 4 months in reduced capacity? I don't know why they would go for it, but is it worth asking?

You're trying to trade 4 months of pay for 2 months of immediate pay with the added risk of burning bridges and having a gap in your resume.

[Anonymous User]

3rd year in a V50 in major market. Just informed I have 4 months to find new position due to group being slow. All my reviews have been positive and I've good relationships with seniors and partners.

I was essentially told my workload would be reduced to give me time to find work, and a couple partners offered to help me find a new position.

I'm fortunate enough to have plenty of savings, and I'm not interested in staying in biglaw. Would it be ludicrous to ask for 2 months severance pay upfront and leave now, instead of staying on for 4 months in reduced capacity? I don't know why they would go for it, but is it worth asking?

You're trying to trade 4 months of pay for 2 months of immediate pay with the added risk of burning bridges and having a gap in your resume.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to hear this OP. What practice are you in? Did others in your practice get the stealth layoff too?

I completely agree with the posters above. Nobody expects your reduced capacity to be anything more than transitioning work and closing out open matters. Take the money and take it easy.

Plus, I know you said you don't want to be in Big Law anymore but having your name on the website will help with any job search.

[almostperfectt]

Yes that sucks for sure. Do you mind chatting a little more about your time at the firm? Were your hours low?

[LBJ's Hair]

I was essentially told my workload would be reduced to give me time to find work, and a couple partners offered to help me find a new position.

I'm fortunate enough to have plenty of savings, and I'm not interested in staying in biglaw. Would it be ludicrous to ask for 2 months severance pay upfront and leave now, instead of staying on for 4 months in reduced capacity? I don't know why they would go for it, but is it worth asking?

do not do this. you'd be negotiating against yourself.

4 months of salary, benefits, website time, and job-hunting + extremely-minimal work >>>>> 2 months of severance + leaving now

your firm is doing you a favor. (I mean, sort of. you've been laid off, which fucking sucks. but this is way better than anything you'd get in finance or tech or w/e---people just get fired + 6 weeks pay in exchange for a release of claims.)

[Anonymous User]

They are letting you go even you got good reviews? That's brutal. Which group are you in?

[Wild Card]

You guys are all dicks. People are laid off all the time. What's shocking to me is that the firm in question actually owned up to the fact the group is slow instead of gaslighting the everliving fuck out of OP.

Deeply traumatizing either way, but the latter is much, much worse--and much more common.

[Anonymous User]

From everything I've heard, the "we'll help you find the next thing" is just a courtesy statement that partners say to make the situation less awkward, but they will do nothing to actually help you find a role elsewhere, so I wouldn't put any faith in it.

Also, most people in the firm won't know you're leaving, so they may try to get you to do additional work. Be ready to much more aggressively turn down work than you would have before.

Sorry this happened to you OP. Things will turn around soon - maybe for the better! But it sucks to go through this.

[Anonymous User]

What's shocking to me is that the firm in question actually owned up to the fact the group is slow instead of gaslighting the everliving fuck out of OP.

Deeply traumatizing either way, but the latter is much, much worse--and much more common.

+1. Rookie move on the firm.

Take the 4-month option and don't be weird to propose the 2-month option. Good luck with the search, OP.

[Anonymous User]

Definitely don't just quit. I've seen associates laid off. All they did during their notice period was come into the office, answer a few e-mails here and there, and chill. And you're in the WFH era, so you won't even have to come in! Not sure if this is a troll post, but if serious: no, you should not leave like $40k on the table. Enjoy these months of minimal work, find a new job in this time, and say your goodbyes in the end.

[ClubberLang]

Enjoy the best four months of your life. People at the firm won't expect anything from you. Just stop working.

[Anonymous User]

From everything I've heard, the "we'll help you find the next thing" is just a courtesy statement that partners say to make the situation less awkward, but they will do nothing to actually help you find a role elsewhere, so I wouldn't put any faith in it.

OP, sorry to hear this, I went through something similar in the past. I don't agree with the above poster on this point though. If you did consistently receive good reviews and are just getting let go because of a slow group (as was the case with me), partners who like you and were in your corner may still try to help. I had two partners who actively reached out to contacts on my behalf and one of those resulted in the position I ended up taking. Since you're looking to leave Biglaw, having a partner reach out to a contact like this is one of the best ways to try to go in-house or in to government. So, I would try to keep in touch with the partners who thought you were doing good work. Also, agree with everyone else that you should take the full four months, continue to get paid, and don't do any work other than looking for your next job.

[Anonymous User]

You guys are all dicks. People are laid off all the time. What's shocking to me is that the firm in question actually owned up to the fact the group is slow instead of gaslighting the everliving fuck out of OP.

Deeply traumatizing either way, but the latter is much, much worse--and much more common.

Maybe it's a firm specific thing, but I'm at one famous for firing people (yes Latham/K&E), and I've only ever seen people let go for performance related reasons. Especially in this market, you're way more likely to be forced to help out a busy group than to be let go for being slow.

I don't think anyone is trying to be a dick - I think it's just morbid/genuine curiosity on wtf happened. Either way, it sucks and I'm sympathetic to anyone that has to go through this. OP should still definitely take the firm's offer of 4 months pay with website time so they can try and move in-house.

[Anonymous User]

OP, this sucks, but as others have said, you should basically stop billing entirely and make the job search your full time job. Don’t rely on partners trying to be nice who say they’ll help you (they probably won’t, unless they are unusually well connected or close to you personally). And don’t feel bad about turning down work, being unresponsive to emails, etc. The important thing for you by far is to have a good job lined up by February.

[Anonymous User]

You guys are all dicks. People are laid off all the time. What's shocking to me is that the firm in question actually owned up to the fact the group is slow instead of gaslighting the everliving fuck out of OP.

Deeply traumatizing either way, but the latter is much, much worse--and much more common.

Maybe it's a firm specific thing, but I'm at one famous for firing people (yes Latham/K&E), and I've only ever seen people let go for performance related reasons. Especially in this market, you're way more likely to be forced to help out a busy group than to be let go for being slow.

I don't think anyone is trying to be a dick - I think it's just morbid/genuine curiosity on wtf happened. Either way, it sucks and I'm sympathetic to anyone that has to go through this. OP should still definitely take the firm's offer of 4 months pay with website time so they can try and move in-house.

I am at K&E and it is hard to get fired right now. We need bodies, especially in corp. I can tell you that bad associates can last a long time doing diligence and other menial tasks.

[Elston Gunn]

“I’m not trying to be a dick, I’m just posting about how it’s impossible to get fired right now [*at my firm*] and pestering the OP for details they probably don’t want to share when they’ve asked for advice”

OP, very sorry to hear about this. The one thing I’ll add to what others have said is I think you should also consider looking to lateral within big law even if you know you want to get out ASAP. Considering how long it can take to ramp up at a new job/possibility of asking for a delayed start, it can be a good option as a placeholder job to get you paid and keep your resume solid while you look for what you really want. Considering how hot the lateral market is right now, I think you’d find something.

[Anonymous User]

“I’m not trying to be a dick, I’m just posting about how it’s impossible to get fired right now [*at my firm*] and pestering the OP for details they probably don’t want to share when they’ve asked for advice”

OP, very sorry to hear about this. The one thing I’ll add to what others have said is I think you should also consider looking to lateral within big law even if you know you want to get out ASAP. Considering how long it can take to ramp up at a new job/possibility of asking for a delayed start, it can be a good option as a placeholder job to get you paid and keep your resume solid while you look for what you really want. Considering how hot the lateral market is right now, I think you’d find something.

Echoing this because it is good advice and also because you can get a windfall out of it in that many of these firms will pay a full year-end bonus even if you jump in November, and possible even a signing bonus on top of that. I don't know OP's situation, but many (most? all?) firms that have given the talk will not pay a full bonus to that associate. So for that reason it would be good to start very soon, like by emailing/calling multiple recruiters on Monday.

If you can latch on at another biglaw firm with a full year-end bonus, you can take your sweet time throughout 2022 looking for the right in-house fit and you'll be able to weave together a story that doesn't sound job-hoppy in those interviews (I lateraled because I thought it would help issues ABC, but I quickly realized those weren't the real problems and what I really needed was an in-house role where XYZ.)

[Anonymous User]

You guys are all dicks. People are laid off all the time. What's shocking to me is that the firm in question actually owned up to the fact the group is slow instead of gaslighting the everliving fuck out of OP.

Deeply traumatizing either way, but the latter is much, much worse--and much more common.

This reminds me of a great story along these lines from the V10 I used to work at. Back in 2019, the corporate group was slow in my (secondary) office and had been for a while, so the managing partner started calling midlevel associates and telling them about this great opportunity to go in house with a client. He would be happy to recommend the associate, et cetera. There was also some language about it maybe being best for the associate, given that the associate's hours had been low for a while. The first two associates got the message, politely indicated they weren't interested in the position and started looking for work elsewhere. The third associate was a bit more naive and took the partner up on the offer, did some research and got excited about it. Turned out there was no position. The partner never got back in touch with the associate about the position, and eventually a senior associate with a friend who worked for the client asked his friend about it - they weren't hiring. It was just the partner's way of unsettling associates. After three associates had left and the group got busier, the partner never mentioned it again.

[Anonymous User]

^^ What PP said.

I got fired from BigLaw as a mid-level associate. Earlier in the month, I got a cryptic email from one of the junior partners I worked with -- along the lines of "I've heard that company X is hiring. I don't know anyone at company X, but if anyone you know gets the job, let's be in touch."

Then two weeks later, I was verbally told my time was up.

[Anonymous User]

What is the normal amount of months for an attorney to have to wind down after a stealth layoff like this? I had a similar situation happen and was only given 2 months, and was also told that the reason was that the group was slow, and I had no performance issues.

[Anonymous User]

What is the normal amount of months for an attorney to have to wind down after a stealth layoff like this? I had a similar situation happen and was only given 2 months, and was also told that the reason was that the group was slow, and I had no performance issues.

Firm dependent but you should ask for more website time ASAP. Ask if they’ll give you a 3rd website month if you don’t have something lined up by then.

[Anonymous User]

I was part of a stealth a while ago and was given only one month. I’d been frozen out a little while before then, so it was apparent what was coming (despite my partner “mentor” insisting that I wasn’t being pushed out pretty much up until the day it happened). This was quite a bit closer to the financial crisis than today, though. 2 months is pretty standard and you can and should push for more website time if you are able to. They probably won’t guarantee it to you upfront, but should give it in exchange for you basically being a good firm citizen and making a good faith effort to lateral out in a timely manner.