Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit Forum

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Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:35 am

Hi all! I recently graduated from CCN and started my V30 biglaw job last month...in corporate. My SA was shortened last summer and the litigation department was slow, so I got a lot of corporate assignments. I found out a few months ago that my firm was putting me in M&A, along with a few other people I know were going after lit.

What do I do? I only planned on hanging around for a couple years (40k in loans) and then going back to my home state to work for the state government. Do I have a chance at a litigation gig (especially one that not entry level) after being in M & A for two years?

Thanks!

mardash

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by mardash » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:14 pm

To answer your last question, If you have no litigation experience you will be lucky to get an entry level position, let alone anything above that.

If you’re dead set on litigation I would try to apply to a clerkship—state court if you can’t get federal—and take that route.

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:30 pm

I would try to network with ppl in the types of government jobs you're looking for and see how they think biglaw corporate will be looked at. You can also do pro bono work that's litigation oriented. But you're unlikely to be able to switch groups. There's a reason you were placed in corporate (and why transactional groups are giving signing bonuses etc). That's where the work is now.

NoLongerALurker

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by NoLongerALurker » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:35 am
Hi all! I recently graduated from CCN and started my V30 biglaw job last month...in corporate. My SA was shortened last summer and the litigation department was slow, so I got a lot of corporate assignments. I found out a few months ago that my firm was putting me in M&A, along with a few other people I know were going after lit.

What do I do? I only planned on hanging around for a couple years (40k in loans) and then going back to my home state to work for the state government. Do I have a chance at a litigation gig (especially one that not entry level) after being in M & A for two years?

Thanks!
Apply to clerkships like your career depends on it.

Mr. Kister

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Mr. Kister » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:30 pm
I would try to network with ppl in the types of government jobs you're looking for and see how they think biglaw corporate will be looked at. You can also do pro bono work that's litigation oriented. But you're unlikely to be able to switch groups. There's a reason you were placed in corporate (and why transactional groups are giving signing bonuses etc). That's where the work is now.
Note that the current M&A climate might not lend itself to you doing lit-based pro bono, or any pro bono at all, for that matter. Def apply for clerkships.

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ExpOriental

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by ExpOriental » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:22 pm

Echoing the "desperately try to clerk" advice, which is probably your only decent option here. Obviously try to lateral as well, but your odds are grim.

Also, you should be naming the firm, though I suspect this is happening pretty much everywhere.

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:13 pm

You could clerk and then try again for biglaw litigation. With only 40K in loans you don't really need a "couple years" of biglaw.

If litigation is really your life's passion, then don't continue to work as an M&A junior. But unless you're already rich, it could be worth keeping your current job. In terms of getting a leg up on buying a home, retirement, etc.

lurkinassociate

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by lurkinassociate » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:17 pm

Lateral or clerk. Firms are somewhat understanding of the “placed into a group I didn’t choose” narrative.

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:18 pm

Curious why he or she could not put in a year of corporate and then request an internal transfer to litigation. Seems to me they would grant that to hold on to a known quantity. I actually did corporate for 2 years at a V5 and then transferred to lit at a V20 in a different city.

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jotarokujo

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by jotarokujo » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:19 pm

don't get a clerkship below the federal magistrate or state supreme court level though, i dont think doing a lower state clerkship would necessarily be worth it here

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:22 pm

jotarokujo wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:19 pm
don't get a clerkship below the federal magistrate or state supreme court level though, i dont think doing a lower state clerkship would necessarily be worth it here
If the firm will not budge and lateralling is not panning out, clerking may still provide welcome delay, regardless of level.

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by jotarokujo » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:22 pm
jotarokujo wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:19 pm
don't get a clerkship below the federal magistrate or state supreme court level though, i dont think doing a lower state clerkship would necessarily be worth it here
If the firm will not budge and lateralling is not panning out, clerking may still provide welcome delay, regardless of level.
true, if OP really doesn't think they can last a year in a non-lit practice. also yeah just realized they need a clerkship ASAP, which probably limits to federal magistrate and lower state clerkships

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Joachim2017 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:50 pm

CCN? With even halfway decent grades, you should try to (ideally) clerk but also I think lateralling into a lit practice is viable. It's your life, and life is short. Don't get stuck doing corporate if you want to do lit for 2 years; extracting yourself will become harder and harder as more time goes on. My view on this is that unless the firm affirmatively told you before joining that they might do this to you/this is their process, they've acted terribly and your thought process should be "fuck em, I'm getting out asap."

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Anonymous User
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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:35 am
Hi all! I recently graduated from CCN and started my V30 biglaw job last month...in corporate.
...
Do I have a chance at a litigation gig (especially one that not entry level) after being in M & A for two years?

Thanks!
How are your grades? Do you have strong letters of recommendation and interesting life experiences? If so, work for a year or two while applying for clerkships and pray that you land one.

Whatever you do, do not rock the boat by pressing for an internal transfer. M&A isn't bad at the junior level. Try it, have a sense of humor and a positive attitude.

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:40 pm
M&A isn't bad at the junior level. Try it, have a sense of humor and a positive attitude.
This is a joke, right?

Anonymous User
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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:35 am
Hi all! I recently graduated from CCN and started my V30 biglaw job last month...in corporate.
...
Do I have a chance at a litigation gig (especially one that not entry level) after being in M & A for two years?

Thanks!
How are your grades? Do you have strong letters of recommendation and interesting life experiences? If so, work for a year or two while applying for clerkships and pray that you land one.

Whatever you do, do not rock the boat by pressing for an internal transfer. M&A isn't bad at the junior level. Try it, have a sense of humor and a positive attitude.
Strong disagree. For anyone remotely interested in litigating, a corporate group assignment won't do. That's a terrible outcome and a terrible way to start at the firm. Lit and Corp are so different. I'm in lit. I knew I wanted lit and I knew the spots were limited so I made it clear during my summer and following months that I would look elsewhere if I didn't get it. The firm screwed you, OP. Strongly advise trying for internal transfer and, at the same time, applying to other firms and clerkships ASAP. Do the bare minimum (or less) at your current firm to collect paychecks and then bounce at your first opportunity. Firms that do this to new associates are dogshit. Lit and corp might as well be entirely different industries

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:35 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:35 am
Hi all! I recently graduated from CCN and started my V30 biglaw job last month...in corporate.
...
Do I have a chance at a litigation gig (especially one that not entry level) after being in M & A for two years?

Thanks!
How are your grades? Do you have strong letters of recommendation and interesting life experiences? If so, work for a year or two while applying for clerkships and pray that you land one.

Whatever you do, do not rock the boat by pressing for an internal transfer. M&A isn't bad at the junior level. Try it, have a sense of humor and a positive attitude.
Strong disagree. For anyone remotely interested in litigating, a corporate group assignment won't do. That's a terrible outcome and a terrible way to start at the firm. Lit and Corp are so different. I'm in lit. I knew I wanted lit and I knew the spots were limited so I made it clear during my summer and following months that I would look elsewhere if I didn't get it. The firm screwed you, OP. Strongly advise trying for internal transfer and, at the same time, applying to other firms and clerkships ASAP. Do the bare minimum (or less) at your current firm to collect paychecks and then bounce at your first opportunity. Firms that do this to new associates are dogshit. Lit and corp might as well be entirely different industries
Unless OP was hired specifically for lit, how did the firm screw them?

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Anonymous User
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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:05 pm

You’ll have to clerk to make this move. Transactional is extremely hot and firms don’t have enough bodies to support the workload. Unless you have tippy too credentials, they probably aren’t giving you lit out the gate.

Also I thought I’d do something similar re: two years up and out, but came to realize that that’s essentially no experience and almost nobody other than another law firm will want to take you on.

hangtime813

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by hangtime813 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:35 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:35 am
Hi all! I recently graduated from CCN and started my V30 biglaw job last month...in corporate.
...
Do I have a chance at a litigation gig (especially one that not entry level) after being in M & A for two years?

Thanks!
How are your grades? Do you have strong letters of recommendation and interesting life experiences? If so, work for a year or two while applying for clerkships and pray that you land one.

Whatever you do, do not rock the boat by pressing for an internal transfer. M&A isn't bad at the junior level. Try it, have a sense of humor and a positive attitude.
Strong disagree. For anyone remotely interested in litigating, a corporate group assignment won't do. That's a terrible outcome and a terrible way to start at the firm. Lit and Corp are so different. I'm in lit. I knew I wanted lit and I knew the spots were limited so I made it clear during my summer and following months that I would look elsewhere if I didn't get it. The firm screwed you, OP. Strongly advise trying for internal transfer and, at the same time, applying to other firms and clerkships ASAP. Do the bare minimum (or less) at your current firm to collect paychecks and then bounce at your first opportunity. Firms that do this to new associates are dogshit. Lit and corp might as well be entirely different industries
Agreed with this post. Lit and corp are obviously completely different. It gets progressively harder and harder to switch from corp to lit as you progress in your career. If you want lit, you have to try to get it asap.

Anonymous User
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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:49 pm
Unless OP was hired specifically for lit, how did the firm screw them?
I would hope the firm asked incoming associates what their group preferences were.

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Elston Gunn

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Elston Gunn » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:35 am
Hi all! I recently graduated from CCN and started my V30 biglaw job last month...in corporate.
...
Do I have a chance at a litigation gig (especially one that not entry level) after being in M & A for two years?

Thanks!
How are your grades? Do you have strong letters of recommendation and interesting life experiences? If so, work for a year or two while applying for clerkships and pray that you land one.

Whatever you do, do not rock the boat by pressing for an internal transfer. M&A isn't bad at the junior level. Try it, have a sense of humor and a positive attitude.
What kind of attitude is this? The OP has extremely little to lose by rocking the boat. They’re not going to get fired over it (the firm desperately needs bodies; that’s why they’re being forced to do corporate work), and they have no interest in advancing at this firm if they can’t transfer to lit anyway.

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:41 am

Don't be afraid to rock the boat and push hard for an internal transfer, but also look outwards ASAP. I was in a similar position (only wanted lit, but ended up in corporate) and lost any real chance at big law litigation by waiting too long and not doing enough to switch. If your firm isn't receptive and is clearly pushing you off, get out of there.

jotarokujo

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Re: Placed in Corporate Group...Wanted Lit

Post by jotarokujo » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:41 am
Don't be afraid to rock the boat and push hard for an internal transfer, but also look outwards ASAP. I was in a similar position (only wanted lit, but ended up in corporate) and lost any real chance at big law litigation by waiting too long and not doing enough to switch. If your firm isn't receptive and is clearly pushing you off, get out of there.
damn. How long was too long to the point where you lost any chance at big law lit?

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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