2021 End of Year Bonuses Forum

[Anonymous User]

DLA matched Cravath (for people making the minimum hours requirement and a 3 rating, as usual)

- anonymous DLA associate

Is there a high biller bonus?

Yes there’s a bump every 100 hours over 2000 (presumably with some cap but don’t actually know).

That’s a lower threshold than years past where the first bump was 2150 and also the email says the pay bump per extra hours will be more than in prior years and could be up to 50% over market (presumably for an insane amount of hours and 5 rating - which no one gets).

[JOE1603]

……

[glitched]

Wtf is going on? Bet DPW is using this time to poach as many Cravath associates as they can right now.

[Anonymous User]

I hate the fact that I’m forced to skim through this stupid squabbling just to stay on top of what actually matters (whether there’s been an announcement or not).

[Anonymous User]

DLA matched Cravath (for people making the minimum hours requirement and a 3 rating, as usual)

- anonymous DLA associate

Is there a high biller bonus?

Yes there’s a bump every 100 hours over 2000 (presumably with some cap but don’t actually know).

That’s a lower threshold than years past where the first bump was 2150 and also the email says the pay bump per extra hours will be more than in prior years and could be up to 50% over market (presumably for an insane amount of hours and 5 rating - which no one gets).

I heard that at Dla, you need permission to go over a certain amount of pro Bono if you’re using it to get to the original target. However, if you hit the target with billable hours only (Ie without using any pro Bono), you can get to those extra hours bonuses that you describe with an unlimited amount of pro Bono without any special permission.

Is that accurate?

[gregfootball2001]

So DPW pays its checks on the 15th and the 30th of each month. And historically (? I think) EOY bonus is paid out on 12/15. So I would imagine that this bonus announcement from them would come out sometime this week or next week at the absolute latest.

Obviously, they can send out EOY bonus whenever so there is some variability

Yeah it's always been within 1 week on either side of 12/15 in my 4 years here (earliest I believe 12/13, latest 12/21).

This is another reason we need an announcement now.

Lol at cadwalader paying EOY bonuses in February 2022.

I’ve always wondered what’s up with that. Is it a working capital problem for scrappier firms that rely on EOY client collections to stay cash-flush?

Are there sizable V100 firms that cannot “afford” an 8-figure outlay ($XX million to pay out all associate bonuses) at any particular moment?

No lol. It's just accounting - all firms pay bonuses after they close their books. Most firms close books on Sept 30 and pay bonuses in December. A handful of firms (W&C, L&W, Cadwalder, etc.) close their books Dec 31 and pay bonuses in Jan/Feb.

It may be accounting, but I've always seen it as another retention method. You have to be at the firm to get the bonus, but your year is already X months done at that point, so if the new firm doesn't match (or prorates the new bonus), you lose money. Makes you a tiny bit more likely to stay.

[Anonymous User]

DLA matched Cravath (for people making the minimum hours requirement and a 3 rating, as usual)

- anonymous DLA associate

Is there a high biller bonus?

Yes there’s a bump every 100 hours over 2000 (presumably with some cap but don’t actually know).

That’s a lower threshold than years past where the first bump was 2150 and also the email says the pay bump per extra hours will be more than in prior years and could be up to 50% over market (presumably for an insane amount of hours and 5 rating - which no one gets).

I heard that at Dla, you need permission to go over a certain amount of pro Bono if you’re using it to get to the original target. However, if you hit the target with billable hours only (Ie without using any pro Bono), you can get to those extra hours bonuses that you describe with an unlimited amount of pro Bono without any special permission.

Is that accurate?

If it is that’s not publicized. My understanding is you need special Permission for pro bono hours above 100 to count for any reason at all. In fact I’m pretty sure I would’ve gotten an hours bump bonus a few years back if this was correct, and I did not get it (I remember regretting not asking for that special permission).

[Anonymous User]

Who the heck has time to do pro bono in this environment?

[Anonymous User]

Who the heck has time to do pro bono in this environment?

People trying to burnish (or rehabilitate) their firm's PR.

[Anonymous User]

Really don’t understand how long this can go on. Is there precedent for this (I’m too lazy to scroll back to find the various dates that firms announced in prior years)? If so, I guess we all should just chill out.

I can’t complain too much since I lateraled to my firm recently and the firm offered me a full year end, so I would be content with the CravaTTTh scale. But if I were at DPW/Milbank/STB all year, I’d be pretty pissed that my firm wasn’t making a move. Curious to hear what the associate chatter is at those firms on delayed bonus announcements.

[Anonymous User]

All y'all need to drink a tall glass of chill the hell out. Last week was Thanksgiving. Give it till the end of the week.

[Buglaw]

My guess is they already had a scale ready to go and it just wouldn't make sense based on what Cravath put out. Like they said base bonus would stay the same as last year, but there would be outsized "special bonuses" paid on a quarterly basis to encourage retention through the next year. Cravath upped the base, so now they need to go back to the drawing board to figure out how to structure their bonus given the higher base.

I think, given the delay, there is absolutely no way firms aren't coming over the top.

[rgn122000]

Relax guys, DPW is coming tomorrow.

[Anonymous User]

My guess is they already had a scale ready to go and it just wouldn't make sense based on what Cravath put out. Like they said base bonus would stay the same as last year, but there would be outsized "special bonuses" paid on a quarterly basis to encourage retention through the next year. Cravath upped the base, so now they need to go back to the drawing board to figure out how to structure their bonus given the higher base.

I think, given the delay, there is absolutely no way firms aren't coming over the top.

That explanation actually makes a lot of sense.

[Anonymous User]

My guess is they already had a scale ready to go and it just wouldn't make sense based on what Cravath put out. Like they said base bonus would stay the same as last year, but there would be outsized "special bonuses" paid on a quarterly basis to encourage retention through the next year. Cravath upped the base, so now they need to go back to the drawing board to figure out how to structure their bonus given the higher base.

I think, given the delay, there is absolutely no way firms aren't coming over the top.

That explanation actually makes a lot of sense.

Ready for the cynical / depressing take? They had a scale ready to go that was something like 1.5x or 2x and then Cravath came out and changed the Overton window and the other firms realized they had more room to maneuver down. So they're deciding how much they can cut comp. now because Cravath was shitty.

[Anonymous User]

Any LW NY folks here getting a weird vibe based on the email re “we’ll pay market bonuses” (like duh, they always have - why email us to say that?) and the all associates meeting they just scheduled even though we just had one of those like 2 weeks ago? Not saying it’s anything bad, just really different from how they’ve handled this in prior years if memory serves.

[Anonymous User]

Deleted duplicate post

[Anonymous User]

Paul Weiss just announced…a town hall meeting with Brad Karp for next week. No idea what it’s about.

[Anonymous User]

Paul Weiss just announced…a town hall meeting with Brad Karp for next week. No idea what it’s about.

Deleted post - joke probably better for another thread.

[Anonymous User]

Paul Weiss just announced…a town hall meeting with Brad Karp for next week. No idea what it’s about.

He’s going to tell us that we’re doubling EOY scale. Then he’ll fire 20% of us who underperformed by only billing 2400 hours. and sell 30% off as distressed assets… fml

[Anonymous User]

So DPW pays its checks on the 15th and the 30th of each month. And historically (? I think) EOY bonus is paid out on 12/15. So I would imagine that this bonus announcement from them would come out sometime this week or next week at the absolute latest.

Obviously, they can send out EOY bonus whenever so there is some variability

Yeah it's always been within 1 week on either side of 12/15 in my 4 years here (earliest I believe 12/13, latest 12/21).

This is another reason we need an announcement now.

Lol at cadwalader paying EOY bonuses in February 2022.

I’ve always wondered what’s up with that. Is it a working capital problem for scrappier firms that rely on EOY client collections to stay cash-flush?

Are there sizable V100 firms that cannot “afford” an 8-figure outlay ($XX million to pay out all associate bonuses) at any particular moment?

No lol. It's just accounting - all firms pay bonuses after they close their books. Most firms close books on Sept 30 and pay bonuses in December. A handful of firms (W&C, L&W, Cadwalder, etc.) close their books Dec 31 and pay bonuses in Jan/Feb.

It may be accounting, but I've always seen it as another retention method. You have to be at the firm to get the bonus, but your year is already X months done at that point, so if the new firm doesn't match (or prorates the new bonus), you lose money. Makes you a tiny bit more likely to stay.

Bit of column A, bit of column B. These firms have kept the same accounting procedure for much longer than bonuses and the lateral market became a thing. There's a lot of inertia to change the way they doing accounting...and what's the incentive? Make it easier for your associates to leave?

So, I think it's probably both.

[BottomOfTotem]

Legitimate question: Why don’t people just say no to the unreasonable work requests we’re seeing right now? I’ve seen in people in this thread and others, and have seen first hand at my firm, doing legitimate harm to their well being in the name of the firm. But considering how short staffed everyone is, it’s not like they’re going to fire you if you say no, right? I guess it could hurt partnership chances, but it kinda seems like people won’t make it that long anyway at this pace.

Just curious.

[Anonymous User]

Legitimate question: Why don’t people just say no to the unreasonable work requests we’re seeing right now? I’ve seen in people in this thread and others, and have seen first hand at my firm, doing legitimate harm to their well being in the name of the firm. But considering how short staffed everyone is, it’s not like they’re going to fire you if you say no, right? I guess it could hurt partnership chances, but it kinda seems like people won’t make it that long anyway at this pace.

Just curious.

I've am a 6th year and have started doing this. Actually just told a partner no to his face a couple minutes before reading this for yet another deal "trying to close by year end". No thanks. Need to be fresh for my in house interviews

[Anonymous User]

Legitimate question: Why don’t people just say no to the unreasonable work requests we’re seeing right now? I’ve seen in people in this thread and others, and have seen first hand at my firm, doing legitimate harm to their well being in the name of the firm. But considering how short staffed everyone is, it’s not like they’re going to fire you if you say no, right? I guess it could hurt partnership chances, but it kinda seems like people won’t make it that long anyway at this pace.

Just curious.

In my opinion, when you are the senior associate "staffed" on a particular client, and have been for the last xx years, it doesn't really work this way. The work isn't usually phrased as a question of whether you have time for something.

[Anonymous User]

Legitimate question: Why don’t people just say no to the unreasonable work requests we’re seeing right now? I’ve seen in people in this thread and others, and have seen first hand at my firm, doing legitimate harm to their well being in the name of the firm. But considering how short staffed everyone is, it’s not like they’re going to fire you if you say no, right? I guess it could hurt partnership chances, but it kinda seems like people won’t make it that long anyway at this pace.

Just curious.

Do you work at one of these firms? There are strong sources of pressure not to say no, some of which are less servile than you might think (e.g., the other associates in your group are also slammed so you are effectively making their lives worse by saying no). And there is no shortage of the servile tendency either. It certainly doesn’t always feel like an option to say no, and for many people the mere fact that it would ruffle feathers is enough to prevent them from doing it. To say nothing of the fact that when the client calls me directly with another project because I am their point person at the firm, I need to be near-breakdown in order to ask for help, because bringing someone else up to speed would take a lot of time too and many associates value being the point person for a client in that way as advantageous to their careers. Some have also also an insane desire to prove to themselves and others that they are capable of doing this much work without breaking down. If your response to all of that is “why?” then I think your question is a broader one, i.e. why people are frequently irrationally afraid.