Has it always been this early? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi TLS, I'm a first year in a NYC corp group. I've been WFH since I started and have no complaints whatsoever about not wasting my life on commuting and waiting around for work. Out of curiosity though - my days usually start early, with emails requiring action coming in well before 9am, sometimes before 8am, and not just on launch/closing/filing days. Most of the time there's no particular reason why these things can't wait until 9/930, but I get stressed when emails pile up and feel it's easier to just get them over with. I recall from my summer days that associates would regularly come in after 10am or even later. Would people log on before 9am or earlier before coming to the office before WFH, or is this a WFH thing?

[Anonymous User]

Hi TLS, I'm a first year in a NYC corp group. I've been WFH since I started and have no complaints whatsoever about not wasting my life on commuting and waiting around for work. Out of curiosity though - my days usually start early, with emails requiring action coming in well before 9am, sometimes before 8am, and not just on launch/closing/filing days. Most of the time there's no particular reason why these things can't wait until 9/930, but I get stressed when emails pile up and feel it's easier to just get them over with. I recall from my summer days that associates would regularly come in after 10am or even later. Would people log on before 9am or earlier before coming to the office before WFH, or is this a WFH thing?

Also a NYC assoc. I think what drives this in part is partners (and associates) with kids waking up very early, and squeezing in a little work around their morning routines. This is doubly so with parents who had kids schooling from home. I don't feel obligated to respond immediately to emails received before 830am, unless it's something urgent, though like you say it's sometimes easier to just get the day started.

[Bdgerald]

This is a wfh thing

It was rare for much to happen between 9-10 since people were usually commuting. Rarely you would end up coming in late because you needed to finish something at home. In NYC it was fairly common for people to arrive >10am.

My advice is to never respond to emails before 9am. There’s almost nothing that can’t wait for an hour and people don’t expect you to work all the time.

The worst are the pre 9am calls, which have started to happen with more regularity

[NoLongerALurker]

Echo what others have said -- it's a WFH thing. Never had it happen before except on pricing or launch or closing days.

My approach has been:
*if it's obviously urgent, do right away.
*If it might be urgent, but probably isn't, wait like at least 15 min, then also respond with "Thanks will turn to this later this morning."
*If it's obviously not urgent, absolutely ignore it until like 9:45am or so and then acknowledge receipt.


Doing this has led me to getting like dozens of emails between 7am and 9:30am every morning and taking 2 seconds to quickly scan them and then put them out of mind. Was kind of stressful for the first couple of week but now it's made me a lot more comfortable just ignoring emails for hours, which is really a key biglaw survival skill.

[Anonymous User]

Agreed it's a WFH thing - I never got emails before 9:30-10am pre-pandemic. Now, I'm by my desk at 8am just to keep up. I'd be fine with it if this was just a shift (work earlier and end earlier), but like everything else in this profession. It just means longer hours.

[Goceltics25]

As an early morning person, would being able to start early allow me to finish by like 7pm, granted it's not a closing/important matter?

[Buglaw]

As an early morning person, would being able to start early allow me to finish by like 7pm, granted it's not a closing/important matter?

Not until your senior, and then, not all the time. As a Junior, you are on your seniors timelines. If you start earlier, you'll still have to be up at night to support them regularly. I'm also a morning person, and my life improved immensely when I got to be the senior associate on deals. instead of staying up till 2:00 in the morning to send something to a partner who wouldn't look at it until 9:00, I started working till 10:00, going to sleep and setting an alarm for 5:00 to get up and start working again. Made my life SOOOO much better. But, you will still have to be up late supporting folks who work later at night, so starting earlier, will frequently just mean you are still up late and have more work in your day. I don't recommend it until you get more control over your schedule.

[12YrsAnAssociate]

As an early morning person, would being able to start early allow me to finish by like 7pm, granted it's not a closing/important matter?

This reminds me of the partner that would assign me shit at 5 pm and expect the deliverable by early the next morning. So, of course, I would work all fucking night and send something in before I left work. One time she said "and I know you're one of those people that's most productive late at night." No, ma'am. I'm not. I'd love to have a reasonable period of time to work on assignments so that I could work on them strictly during work hours, and I'm sure my work would be better if I were given the opportunity. But those weren't the cards I was dealt.

[NoLongerALurker]

As an early morning person, would being able to start early allow me to finish by like 7pm, granted it's not a closing/important matter?

Being someone who slacks until 1pm-2pm then turns it on at 6pm and consistently is still working at 12am (for an average 10-11 hour day) will earn you significant kudos and latitude and respect. Like, "partner track" cred (even though that phrase makes me cringe)

Being someone who works really hard from 6am to 9pm every day and then disappears (an average 15 hour day) will result in everyone talking shit about you -- including partners, even if you never hear it.

When you're like a 7th year plus you can kind of do your own thing. Unfortunately, until then the default is a late-night schedule and it doesn't pay to be off-schedule, even if you try to rationalize (..even if the rationalization is entirely logical and correct) otherwise..

[NoLongerALurker]

As an early morning person, would being able to start early allow me to finish by like 7pm, granted it's not a closing/important matter?

This reminds me of the partner that would assign me shit at 5 pm and expect the deliverable by early the next morning. So, of course, I would work all fucking night and send something in before I left work. One time she said "and I know you're one of those people that's most productive late at night." No, ma'am. I'm not. I'd love to have a reasonable period of time to work on assignments so that I could work on them strictly during work hours, and I'm sure my work would be better if I were given the opportunity. But those weren't the cards I was dealt.

Hahah. I kept getting all these bullshit absolute terrible assignments as a junior-mid that everyone else was avoiding. Then one day a few partners tell me I'm really well regarded because I'm a "grinder" who "likes to take care of the ticky tacky in the trenches shit the other associates are bad at dealing with."

Anyway I lateraled and life got a lot better. At new firm I straight up turned down a few things early on (which was risky) to avoid being pigeon-holed like that. Phew.

[Anonymous User]

As an early morning person, would being able to start early allow me to finish by like 7pm, granted it's not a closing/important matter?

Being someone who slacks until 1pm-2pm then turns it on at 6pm and consistently is still working at 12am (for an average 10-11 hour day) will earn you significant kudos and latitude and respect. Like, "partner track" cred (even though that phrase makes me cringe)

Being someone who works really hard from 6am to 9pm every day and then disappears (an average 15 hour day) will result in everyone talking shit about you -- including partners, even if you never hear it.

When you're like a 7th year plus you can kind of do your own thing. Unfortunately, until then the default is a late-night schedule and it doesn't pay to be off-schedule, even if you try to rationalize (..even if the rationalization is entirely logical and correct) otherwise..

+1

Still a junior but I get an enormous amount of credit for “commitment” and late nights to the point that seniors regularly check in on me to make sure I’m not overworking myself. However, with WFH I regularly roll out of bed between 9-10, answer some emails to look alert and really don’t get start on the day until 11-12, then kick it into gear late in the afternoon and will stay up until 12-2am. I’m much more of a night owl so this schedule very much works well for me but I’ve noticed I get a lot more credit than my peers who work just as long but try to do so earlier in the day.

[RaceJudicata]

My experience is quite a bit different than others in this thread. I start at around 7am (early riser, and value evening hours more than am hours) and very rarely work past 6pm. Most days I’m done at 5:30. Anything that comes in after that can generally be handled the next morning. Only time I stay up late is to voluntarily work on briefs (cause easier than working on them when emails flying in during day).

I’ve never understood the post-10am work arrival that is common in New York.

[Anonymous User]

My experience is quite a bit different than others in this thread. I start at around 7am (early riser, and value evening hours more than am hours) and very rarely work past 6pm. Most days I’m done at 5:30. Anything that comes in after that can generally be handled the next morning. Only time I stay up late is to voluntarily work on briefs (cause easier than working on them when emails flying in during day).

I’ve never understood the post-10am work arrival that is common in New York.

Isn’t it kinda obvious that that’s because you are a litigator?

[existentialcrisis]

As an early morning person, would being able to start early allow me to finish by like 7pm, granted it's not a closing/important matter?

This doesn't really work in corporate, because you're dealing with a variety of tasks, turning comments, etc., responding to emails, as they pop up during the day.

Transactional work is much more process management than litigation.

Essentially never will you wake up and say, "I have 10 hours of drafting to get done today and once I bang that out I'm done."

[whats an updog]

be glad you're not on the west coast and having to deal with these psychopaths. generally, transactional folks are the fucking worst. "hey lets hop on another zoom at any hour of the fucking day with little to no warning because i think this is important and we are so important" like chill the fuck out dog, nobody cares, and if they do they're some other bloodsucking merchant of misery who can suck it. like, dudes, your spouses and kids miss you (ymmv on last bit)

[Prudent_Jurist]

be glad you're not on the west coast and having to deal with these psychopaths. generally, transactional folks are the fucking worst. "hey lets hop on another zoom at any hour of the fucking day with little to no warning because i think this is important and we are so important" like chill the fuck out dog, nobody cares, and if they do they're some other bloodsucking merchant of misery who can suck it. like, dudes, your spouses and kids miss you (ymmv on last bit)

What’s a “chill the fuck out dog”?

[FedFan123]

be glad you're not on the west coast and having to deal with these psychopaths. generally, transactional folks are the fucking worst. "hey lets hop on another zoom at any hour of the fucking day with little to no warning because i think this is important and we are so important" like chill the fuck out dog, nobody cares, and if they do they're some other bloodsucking merchant of misery who can suck it. like, dudes, your spouses and kids miss you (ymmv on last bit)

What’s a “chill the fuck out dog”?

Good one

[NoLongerALurker]

be glad you're not on the west coast and having to deal with these psychopaths. generally, transactional folks are the fucking worst. "hey lets hop on another zoom at any hour of the fucking day with little to no warning because i think this is important and we are so important" like chill the fuck out dog, nobody cares, and if they do they're some other bloodsucking merchant of misery who can suck it. like, dudes, your spouses and kids miss you (ymmv on last bit)

+1