Tips for targeting London Forum

[weissman12`]

I'm a 1L at a T20. My career services office is asking us to identify target markets in prep for 1L SA hiring.

My fiance and I are both US citizens, but she has deep ties to England. She goes back often and now is thinking of moving there.

I know working in London is a longshot for even top grads, but I'm looking for tips to maximize my chances while I shoot my shot. I've done tons of research on TLS/Reddit, but always good to get fresh information.

My school does a 3L study abroad in England. I'd receive my US JD and UK LLM after completing that. Would that give me any leg up?

I know Cap Markets are the big thing in London. Are there any other specialties that might help me out?

Has anyone here Summered in London? If so, what was your experience?

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

I’m a US associate at a top US firm in London. Assuming you want big law, grades will be the most important factor for you if you can cobble together a halfway decent reason for wanting to practice in London, which sounds like it shouldn’t be difficult for you. I don’t think study abroad or a UK LLM would be particularly helpful for big law.

Can’t speak to the grades you’d need from a t20 school, but it wasn’t particularly difficult for students at my t14 to get London offers back when I did OCI several years ago.

I’ve done some recruiting/interviewing out of the US for my firm. Happy to answer any specific questions.

[Anonymous User]

I’m a US associate at a top US firm in London. Assuming you want big law, grades will be the most important factor for you if you can cobble together a halfway decent reason for wanting to practice in London, which sounds like it shouldn’t be difficult for you. I don’t think study abroad or a UK LLM would be particularly helpful for big law.

Can’t speak to the grades you’d need from a t20 school, but it wasn’t particularly difficult for students at my t14 to get London offers back when I did OCI several years ago.

I’ve done some recruiting/interviewing out of the US for my firm. Happy to answer any specific questions.

Not OP, but it is possible to do anything remotely resembling litigation work in London? Would love to live there, but am certain I do not want to do transactional work.

[Anonymous User]

I’m a US associate at a top US firm in London. Assuming you want big law, grades will be the most important factor for you if you can cobble together a halfway decent reason for wanting to practice in London, which sounds like it shouldn’t be difficult for you. I don’t think study abroad or a UK LLM would be particularly helpful for big law.

Can’t speak to the grades you’d need from a t20 school, but it wasn’t particularly difficult for students at my t14 to get London offers back when I did OCI several years ago.

I’ve done some recruiting/interviewing out of the US for my firm. Happy to answer any specific questions.

Not OP, but it is possible to do anything remotely resembling litigation work in London? Would love to live there, but am certain I do not want to do transactional work.

Some firms have some space for non-transactional US-qualified attorneys. Skadden's white collar/investigations group springs to mind.

That said, you will in all likelihood be working on high yield since that's in demand at every US shop in London. Also note that it's harder to make a lateral move or exit way down the line (you will effectively be limited to other capmarkets teams in London).

I contemplated London since for me it meant being close to family, but it is not the best idea in terms of career development.

[Anonymous User]

I’m a US associate at a top US firm in London. Assuming you want big law, grades will be the most important factor for you if you can cobble together a halfway decent reason for wanting to practice in London, which sounds like it shouldn’t be difficult for you. I don’t think study abroad or a UK LLM would be particularly helpful for big law.

Can’t speak to the grades you’d need from a t20 school, but it wasn’t particularly difficult for students at my t14 to get London offers back when I did OCI several years ago.

I’ve done some recruiting/interviewing out of the US for my firm. Happy to answer any specific questions.

Not OP, but it is possible to do anything remotely resembling litigation work in London? Would love to live there, but am certain I do not want to do transactional work.

Some firms have some space for non-transactional US-qualified attorneys. Skadden's white collar/investigations group springs to mind.

That said, you will in all likelihood be working on high yield since that's in demand at every US shop in London. Also note that it's harder to make a lateral move or exit way down the line (you will effectively be limited to other capmarkets teams in London).

I contemplated London since for me it meant being close to family, but it is not the best idea in terms of career development.

I'd quibble with the notion that you're limited to capital markets practices in London as an exit (I think exiting to corporate biglaw positions in the States, especially NYC, are more common than exiting to other teams in London), but I do think it's fair to say that it's not realistic to expect to have a US-qualified biglaw job in London other than capital markets. Skadden's WCC team takes like one summer, sometimes, everyone else moves internally. M&A positions are also highly unusual in London. It's not a knock against anyone's desired outcomes, it's just a reality that you can't get a biglaw litigation job as a US attorney in almost any city in the world, and London is no exception.

[Anonymous User]

I'm also not OP, but how realistic is it to want to stay in London for my entire career (without coming back to the US), if I start there? For what it's worth, I'm interested in transactional.

Also, if staying in London is a bigger priority than choice of transactional work, should I try to do as much cap markets as possible, for the sake of leaving my options open in case I need to lateral down the line? (Supposing that the firm offers a variety of transactional work.)

Thanks!

[weissman12`]

I’m a US associate at a top US firm in London. Assuming you want big law, grades will be the most important factor for you if you can cobble together a halfway decent reason for wanting to practice in London, which sounds like it shouldn’t be difficult for you. I don’t think study abroad or a UK LLM would be particularly helpful for big law.

Can’t speak to the grades you’d need from a t20 school, but it wasn’t particularly difficult for students at my t14 to get London offers back when I did OCI several years ago.

I’ve done some recruiting/interviewing out of the US for my firm. Happy to answer any specific questions.

Thanks for helping out. I'm shooting for a 1L SA role, but what other experience would a firm like yours in London like to see if I can't get big law? I am thinking of applying to SEC and other govt agencies. Does that matter at all, or is all 1L experience pretty much equal outside of big law and unicorn PI?

[Anonymous User]

I’m a US associate at a top US firm in London. Assuming you want big law, grades will be the most important factor for you if you can cobble together a halfway decent reason for wanting to practice in London, which sounds like it shouldn’t be difficult for you. I don’t think study abroad or a UK LLM would be particularly helpful for big law.

Can’t speak to the grades you’d need from a t20 school, but it wasn’t particularly difficult for students at my t14 to get London offers back when I did OCI several years ago.

I’ve done some recruiting/interviewing out of the US for my firm. Happy to answer any specific questions.

Not OP, but it is possible to do anything remotely resembling litigation work in London? Would love to live there, but am certain I do not want to do transactional work.

Some firms have some space for non-transactional US-qualified attorneys. Skadden's white collar/investigations group springs to mind.

That said, you will in all likelihood be working on high yield since that's in demand at every US shop in London. Also note that it's harder to make a lateral move or exit way down the line (you will effectively be limited to other capmarkets teams in London).

I contemplated London since for me it meant being close to family, but it is not the best idea in terms of career development.

I'd quibble with the notion that you're limited to capital markets practices in London as an exit (I think exiting to corporate biglaw positions in the States, especially NYC, are more common than exiting to other teams in London), but I do think it's fair to say that it's not realistic to expect to have a US-qualified biglaw job in London other than capital markets. Skadden's WCC team takes like one summer, sometimes, everyone else moves internally. M&A positions are also highly unusual in London. It's not a knock against anyone's desired outcomes, it's just a reality that you can't get a biglaw litigation job as a US attorney in almost any city in the world, and London is no exception.

Note this is second-hand information as I don't work in London. Basing this off what I've heard from many people with more knowledge on the matter than me.

It's true that most exits are back to NYC, but these aren't that easy to pull off. The experience you get working high yield in Europe isn't the most transferable since you're often working with different clients (unless you're at PW and are effectively just a satellite for some of their PE work, which can make it a bit easier) and often substantively different work. There are more associates that want to lateral into NYC from London than actually end up doing so. It's way easier to move from NYC to London as a capital markets attorney.

[Anonymous User]

I’m a US associate at a top US firm in London. Assuming you want big law, grades will be the most important factor for you if you can cobble together a halfway decent reason for wanting to practice in London, which sounds like it shouldn’t be difficult for you. I don’t think study abroad or a UK LLM would be particularly helpful for big law.

Can’t speak to the grades you’d need from a t20 school, but it wasn’t particularly difficult for students at my t14 to get London offers back when I did OCI several years ago.

I’ve done some recruiting/interviewing out of the US for my firm. Happy to answer any specific questions.

Not OP, but it is possible to do anything remotely resembling litigation work in London? Would love to live there, but am certain I do not want to do transactional work.

Some firms have some space for non-transactional US-qualified attorneys. Skadden's white collar/investigations group springs to mind.

That said, you will in all likelihood be working on high yield since that's in demand at every US shop in London. Also note that it's harder to make a lateral move or exit way down the line (you will effectively be limited to other capmarkets teams in London).

I contemplated London since for me it meant being close to family, but it is not the best idea in terms of career development.

I'd quibble with the notion that you're limited to capital markets practices in London as an exit (I think exiting to corporate biglaw positions in the States, especially NYC, are more common than exiting to other teams in London), but I do think it's fair to say that it's not realistic to expect to have a US-qualified biglaw job in London other than capital markets. Skadden's WCC team takes like one summer, sometimes, everyone else moves internally. M&A positions are also highly unusual in London. It's not a knock against anyone's desired outcomes, it's just a reality that you can't get a biglaw litigation job as a US attorney in almost any city in the world, and London is no exception.

Note this is second-hand information as I don't work in London. Basing this off what I've heard from many people with more knowledge on the matter than me.

It's true that most exits are back to NYC, but these aren't that easy to pull off. The experience you get working high yield in Europe isn't the most transferable since you're often working with different clients (unless you're at PW and are effectively just a satellite for some of their PE work, which can make it a bit easier) and often substantively different work. There are more associates that want to lateral into NYC from London than actually end up doing so. It's way easier to move from NYC to London as a capital markets attorney.

I’m a US associate in London. I disagree with all of this except that it’s easier to move from NYC to London, though it’s not particularly difficult to go from London to NYC these days if you’re in the capital markets space.

Please don’t give people advice unless you have first hand knowledge w/r/t what you’re talking about.

[Anonymous User]

I'm also not OP, but how realistic is it to want to stay in London for my entire career (without coming back to the US), if I start there? For what it's worth, I'm interested in transactional.

Also, if staying in London is a bigger priority than choice of transactional work, should I try to do as much cap markets as possible, for the sake of leaving my options open in case I need to lateral down the line? (Supposing that the firm offers a variety of transactional work.)

Thanks!

Staying in London for your career is possible, but it's a narrower road with more hurdles than the same career in the States. One big thing is your visa status. Unless you're already a UK citizen (EU passport doesn't cut it anymore post-Brexit), you're limited to the large international employers willing to sponsor your visa for the years it takes you to get permanent status. I knew someone who quit basically the moment he got his and was miserable leading up to it. When you exit biglaw (and you absolutely will exit biglaw, since almost no one makes partner, and a US-qualified corp associate will not be made up in London), then you're limited to a very small number of financial institutions that have a need a need for US corp attorneys. In-house options are just not there very much for US attorneys outside the US generally. You could become UK-qualified, which is a slog, or you could exit the law entirely once you have permanent status, but salaries in the UK are truly shockingly low. So there's a path, especially if you have high-earning family/spouse, especially if they are UK citizens, but it's a tough road.

[Anonymous User]

I'm also not OP, but how realistic is it to want to stay in London for my entire career (without coming back to the US), if I start there? For what it's worth, I'm interested in transactional.

Also, if staying in London is a bigger priority than choice of transactional work, should I try to do as much cap markets as possible, for the sake of leaving my options open in case I need to lateral down the line? (Supposing that the firm offers a variety of transactional work.)

Thanks!

Staying in London for your career is possible, but it's a narrower road with more hurdles than the same career in the States. One big thing is your visa status. Unless you're already a UK citizen (EU passport doesn't cut it anymore post-Brexit), you're limited to the large international employers willing to sponsor your visa for the years it takes you to get permanent status. I knew someone who quit basically the moment he got his and was miserable leading up to it. When you exit biglaw (and you absolutely will exit biglaw, since almost no one makes partner, and a US-qualified corp associate will not be made up in London), then you're limited to a very small number of financial institutions that have a need a need for US corp attorneys. In-house options are just not there very much for US attorneys outside the US generally. You could become UK-qualified, which is a slog, or you could exit the law entirely once you have permanent status, but salaries in the UK are truly shockingly low. So there's a path, especially if you have high-earning family/spouse, especially if they are UK citizens, but it's a tough road.

Not OP, but someone contemplating taking a role in London. How do the London cap markets hours compare to NY?

By the way, do you only get COLA if you're a US citizen in the first place? I'm an international and spent some time in London in the past, so I was wondering if I'd still be eligible for it.

[Anonymous User]

I'm also not OP, but how realistic is it to want to stay in London for my entire career (without coming back to the US), if I start there? For what it's worth, I'm interested in transactional.

Also, if staying in London is a bigger priority than choice of transactional work, should I try to do as much cap markets as possible, for the sake of leaving my options open in case I need to lateral down the line? (Supposing that the firm offers a variety of transactional work.)

Thanks!

Staying in London for your career is possible, but it's a narrower road with more hurdles than the same career in the States. One big thing is your visa status. Unless you're already a UK citizen (EU passport doesn't cut it anymore post-Brexit), you're limited to the large international employers willing to sponsor your visa for the years it takes you to get permanent status. I knew someone who quit basically the moment he got his and was miserable leading up to it. When you exit biglaw (and you absolutely will exit biglaw, since almost no one makes partner, and a US-qualified corp associate will not be made up in London), then you're limited to a very small number of financial institutions that have a need a need for US corp attorneys. In-house options are just not there very much for US attorneys outside the US generally. You could become UK-qualified, which is a slog, or you could exit the law entirely once you have permanent status, but salaries in the UK are truly shockingly low. So there's a path, especially if you have high-earning family/spouse, especially if they are UK citizens, but it's a tough road.

Not OP, but someone contemplating taking a role in London. How do the London cap markets hours compare to NY?

By the way, do you only get COLA if you're a US citizen in the first place? I'm an international and spent some time in London in the past, so I was wondering if I'd still be eligible for it.

Hours depend on firm.

Yes, I’d expect you’d get COLA as an incoming US qualified associate.

[Anonymous User]

I'm also not OP, but how realistic is it to want to stay in London for my entire career (without coming back to the US), if I start there? For what it's worth, I'm interested in transactional.

Also, if staying in London is a bigger priority than choice of transactional work, should I try to do as much cap markets as possible, for the sake of leaving my options open in case I need to lateral down the line? (Supposing that the firm offers a variety of transactional work.)

Thanks!

Staying in London for your career is possible, but it's a narrower road with more hurdles than the same career in the States. One big thing is your visa status. Unless you're already a UK citizen (EU passport doesn't cut it anymore post-Brexit), you're limited to the large international employers willing to sponsor your visa for the years it takes you to get permanent status. I knew someone who quit basically the moment he got his and was miserable leading up to it. When you exit biglaw (and you absolutely will exit biglaw, since almost no one makes partner, and a US-qualified corp associate will not be made up in London), then you're limited to a very small number of financial institutions that have a need a need for US corp attorneys. In-house options are just not there very much for US attorneys outside the US generally. You could become UK-qualified, which is a slog, or you could exit the law entirely once you have permanent status, but salaries in the UK are truly shockingly low. So there's a path, especially if you have high-earning family/spouse, especially if they are UK citizens, but it's a tough road.

Not OP, but someone contemplating taking a role in London. How do the London cap markets hours compare to NY?

By the way, do you only get COLA if you're a US citizen in the first place? I'm an international and spent some time in London in the past, so I was wondering if I'd still be eligible for it.

Hours depend on firm.

Yes, I’d expect you’d get COLA as an incoming US qualified associate.

The default assumption should be that hours are not better in London than in NY.

COLA is under pressure in any case, so I wouldn't bank on it being there in the same form in the medium term. That said, the key to getting COLA isn't being a US citizen, it's being a US JD holder (foreign law degrees with US LLMs don't get COLA anywhere as far as I know). I do know of one dual US and UK citizen who had a US JD but was classified as a local hire and consequently denied COLA, and she was mightily pissed. Also worth noting in passing that UK associates tend to be very annoyed that they don't receive COLA, arguing that they are just as capable if not more so than US associates, which is true, but you're basically getting extra compensation in order to agree to live and work in a sub-optimal career environment and that's probably the best way to think about COLA.

[Anonymous User]

I'm also not OP, but how realistic is it to want to stay in London for my entire career (without coming back to the US), if I start there? For what it's worth, I'm interested in transactional.

Also, if staying in London is a bigger priority than choice of transactional work, should I try to do as much cap markets as possible, for the sake of leaving my options open in case I need to lateral down the line? (Supposing that the firm offers a variety of transactional work.)

Thanks!

Staying in London for your career is possible, but it's a narrower road with more hurdles than the same career in the States. One big thing is your visa status. Unless you're already a UK citizen (EU passport doesn't cut it anymore post-Brexit), you're limited to the large international employers willing to sponsor your visa for the years it takes you to get permanent status. I knew someone who quit basically the moment he got his and was miserable leading up to it. When you exit biglaw (and you absolutely will exit biglaw, since almost no one makes partner, and a US-qualified corp associate will not be made up in London), then you're limited to a very small number of financial institutions that have a need a need for US corp attorneys. In-house options are just not there very much for US attorneys outside the US generally. You could become UK-qualified, which is a slog, or you could exit the law entirely once you have permanent status, but salaries in the UK are truly shockingly low. So there's a path, especially if you have high-earning family/spouse, especially if they are UK citizens, but it's a tough road.

Not OP, but someone contemplating taking a role in London. How do the London cap markets hours compare to NY?

By the way, do you only get COLA if you're a US citizen in the first place? I'm an international and spent some time in London in the past, so I was wondering if I'd still be eligible for it.

Hours depend on firm.

Yes, I’d expect you’d get COLA as an incoming US qualified associate.

The default assumption should be that hours are not better in London than in NY.

COLA is under pressure in any case, so I wouldn't bank on it being there in the same form in the medium term. That said, the key to getting COLA isn't being a US citizen, it's being a US JD holder (foreign law degrees with US LLMs don't get COLA anywhere as far as I know). I do know of one dual US and UK citizen who had a US JD but was classified as a local hire and consequently denied COLA, and she was mightily pissed. Also worth noting in passing that UK associates tend to be very annoyed that they don't receive COLA, arguing that they are just as capable if not more so than US associates, which is true, but you're basically getting extra compensation in order to agree to live and work in a sub-optimal career environment and that's probably the best way to think about COLA.

FWIW I know of multiple non-US JD / US qualified lawyers who have received COLAs at various US firms in London.

[Anonymous User]

I'm also not OP, but how realistic is it to want to stay in London for my entire career (without coming back to the US), if I start there? For what it's worth, I'm interested in transactional.

Also, if staying in London is a bigger priority than choice of transactional work, should I try to do as much cap markets as possible, for the sake of leaving my options open in case I need to lateral down the line? (Supposing that the firm offers a variety of transactional work.)

Thanks!

Staying in London for your career is possible, but it's a narrower road with more hurdles than the same career in the States. One big thing is your visa status. Unless you're already a UK citizen (EU passport doesn't cut it anymore post-Brexit), you're limited to the large international employers willing to sponsor your visa for the years it takes you to get permanent status. I knew someone who quit basically the moment he got his and was miserable leading up to it. When you exit biglaw (and you absolutely will exit biglaw, since almost no one makes partner, and a US-qualified corp associate will not be made up in London), then you're limited to a very small number of financial institutions that have a need a need for US corp attorneys. In-house options are just not there very much for US attorneys outside the US generally. You could become UK-qualified, which is a slog, or you could exit the law entirely once you have permanent status, but salaries in the UK are truly shockingly low. So there's a path, especially if you have high-earning family/spouse, especially if they are UK citizens, but it's a tough road.

Not OP, but someone contemplating taking a role in London. How do the London cap markets hours compare to NY?

By the way, do you only get COLA if you're a US citizen in the first place? I'm an international and spent some time in London in the past, so I was wondering if I'd still be eligible for it.

Hours depend on firm.

Yes, I’d expect you’d get COLA as an incoming US qualified associate.

The default assumption should be that hours are not better in London than in NY.

COLA is under pressure in any case, so I wouldn't bank on it being there in the same form in the medium term. That said, the key to getting COLA isn't being a US citizen, it's being a US JD holder (foreign law degrees with US LLMs don't get COLA anywhere as far as I know). I do know of one dual US and UK citizen who had a US JD but was classified as a local hire and consequently denied COLA, and she was mightily pissed. Also worth noting in passing that UK associates tend to be very annoyed that they don't receive COLA, arguing that they are just as capable if not more so than US associates, which is true, but you're basically getting extra compensation in order to agree to live and work in a sub-optimal career environment and that's probably the best way to think about COLA.

FWIW I know of multiple non-US JD / US qualified lawyers who have received COLAs at various US firms in London.

Firms are also cagey with COLA matters in London. They fiddle with the exchange rate if you're paid in GBP, and can be gradually reduced on various schedules (i.e. 50% after X years at Firm A vs. 25% after Y years at firm B).

[Anonymous User]

COLA seems to be more about being US qualified?

OP, would you be open to becoming UK qualified? It won't be so difficult with SQE.