Hours in Lit Forum

[Anonymous User]

There's so much talk about hours on the corporate side of biglaw right now on these forums (and for good reason, since everyone I know in corp has been getting killed), but very little about litigation.

How are everyone's hours in lit this year? My V50 firm in NYC seems busy, but I don't think any of the other juniors are too bad hours wise. I'm on pace for about 1800 and trying to figure out whether I'm getting lucky or if lit is just generally not that busy.

[Anonymous User]

Third year in my first year at a V10 (clerked twice) and have been billing at a 2100 pace the last six months.

[onmars]

Third year in my first year at a V10 (clerked twice) and have been billing at a 2100 pace the last six months.

would love to know what firm this is if you are okay PM'ing

[Anonymous User]

Been billing a consistent 180 hours at my midsize/boutique law firm for most of the year, which puts me on track for about 2100. Might be closer to 2000 by the end of the year due to holidays, but the "slower" summer has not been slow.

[Anonymous User]

First year at a V10 in lit. Had a slower January, but the last six months are on pace for 2200…and that’s with a one week of vacation.

[Anonymous User]

5th year at my second firm. On pace for ~2100-2200 in our fiscal year, 2400 in calendar year 2021. Had a slow ramp up but it's been pretty consistent 200/mo since. But I hit 2800 in my last year at the old firm, so this is still an improvement.

[Anonymous User]

8th Year Associate. I'm gonna be about 2300 this year even with a relatively slower winter. If anyone at my firm is under 2000 they are deliberately slacking, as we definitely have the work. I think we are slammed because all the case schedules started ramping up again to try and get the trial schedule moving in the courts. It doesn't look like it is going to let off until this time in 2022 at the earliest.

[Anonymous User]

5th year at my second firm. On pace for ~2100-2200 in our fiscal year, 2400 in calendar year 2021. Had a slow ramp up but it's been pretty consistent 200/mo since. But I hit 2800 in my last year at the old firm, so this is still an improvement.

How on earth did you get to 2800 as an associate in lit? 2800 would be about 233 hours a month, if you billed the same amount every month. By itself, that doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility. But a properly staffed lit associate should find it impossible to actually bill the same number every month like that.

Litigation schedules have natural peaks and lulls. Peaks at the begining of the case when you are establishing strategy, near the discovery cutoff, in the ramp up to trial, ect. Lulls during most of discovery, waiting on the Judge to rule on motions, waiting on a trial date that got pushed again, ect. These destroy the ability to bill steadily the same amount each day/week/month, especially as the workhorse associate doing most of the grunt work during the peaks. Because they could all peak at the same time, you cannot be staffed on too many at once or risk them all blowing up simultaneously. That also means that, with lulls, you sometimes just don't have much billable work to do, unless you are being asked to do make-work.

Which is to say if your previous firm was staffing you in such a way that 2800 hours was even possible, I think you did the right thing getting out. The actual number by itself is brutal, but if you were doing that with swings between 160 hours and 300+ hours, that's unhealthy.

[Anonymous User]

5th year at my second firm. On pace for ~2100-2200 in our fiscal year, 2400 in calendar year 2021. Had a slow ramp up but it's been pretty consistent 200/mo since. But I hit 2800 in my last year at the old firm, so this is still an improvement.

How on earth did you get to 2800 as an associate in lit? 2800 would be about 233 hours a month, if you billed the same amount every month. By itself, that doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility. But a properly staffed lit associate should find it impossible to actually bill the same number every month like that.

Litigation schedules have natural peaks and lulls. Peaks at the begining of the case when you are establishing strategy, near the discovery cutoff, in the ramp up to trial, ect. Lulls during most of discovery, waiting on the Judge to rule on motions, waiting on a trial date that got pushed again, ect. These destroy the ability to bill steadily the same amount each day/week/month, especially as the workhorse associate doing most of the grunt work during the peaks. Because they could all peak at the same time, you cannot be staffed on too many at once or risk them all blowing up simultaneously. That also means that, with lulls, you sometimes just don't have much billable work to do, unless you are being asked to do make-work.

Which is to say if your previous firm was staffing you in such a way that 2800 hours was even possible, I think you did the right thing getting out. The actual number by itself is brutal, but if you were doing that with swings between 160 hours and 300+ hours, that's unhealthy.

The thing that you're missing there is how many cases you are handling. I am handling about 20 cases that are in litigation, with another 5-10 set to go by the end of the year. When I used to be in a more depo-heavy practice at my old firm, I handled about the same amount and would have several depositions a week. Throw in the rest of the practice and hitting 2800 (while I agree is pretty brutal) isn't outside the realm of possibility if you happened to have 1 or 2 small trials or 1 big trial that year. In a less depo-heavy practice, I may have some cases sit for a few months, but then I have other cases that are going (just one massive discovery fight recently put me up at a couple 220 hour months with a team of us working the case) and more that will either get going or start to get up against certain deadlines. I agree that 2800 would be nuts for practices where you only handle a few cases, but firms with heavier dockets that are struggling to hire (we've hired some people who have absolutely no litigation experience bc things have gotten so desperate) means you are going to bill well past 2000.

With my current firm, we are about a year away from any trials on my team and about 2 years (at least) away for my cases, so that's why my hours are around the 2100 mark (although I could get to 2500 if I had the desire...maybe when I was younger). In 2023, any number between 2500-3000 wouldn't surprise me.

[Anonymous User]

5th year at my second firm. On pace for ~2100-2200 in our fiscal year, 2400 in calendar year 2021. Had a slow ramp up but it's been pretty consistent 200/mo since. But I hit 2800 in my last year at the old firm, so this is still an improvement.

How on earth did you get to 2800 as an associate in lit? 2800 would be about 233 hours a month, if you billed the same amount every month. By itself, that doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility. But a properly staffed lit associate should find it impossible to actually bill the same number every month like that.

Litigation schedules have natural peaks and lulls. Peaks at the begining of the case when you are establishing strategy, near the discovery cutoff, in the ramp up to trial, ect. Lulls during most of discovery, waiting on the Judge to rule on motions, waiting on a trial date that got pushed again, ect. These destroy the ability to bill steadily the same amount each day/week/month, especially as the workhorse associate doing most of the grunt work during the peaks. Because they could all peak at the same time, you cannot be staffed on too many at once or risk them all blowing up simultaneously. That also means that, with lulls, you sometimes just don't have much billable work to do, unless you are being asked to do make-work.

Which is to say if your previous firm was staffing you in such a way that 2800 hours was even possible, I think you did the right thing getting out. The actual number by itself is brutal, but if you were doing that with swings between 160 hours and 300+ hours, that's unhealthy.

The thing that you're missing there is how many cases you are handling. I am handling about 20 cases that are in litigation, with another 5-10 set to go by the end of the year. When I used to be in a more depo-heavy practice at my old firm, I handled about the same amount and would have several depositions a week. Throw in the rest of the practice and hitting 2800 (while I agree is pretty brutal) isn't outside the realm of possibility if you happened to have 1 or 2 small trials or 1 big trial that year. In a less depo-heavy practice, I may have some cases sit for a few months, but then I have other cases that are going (just one massive discovery fight recently put me up at a couple 220 hour months with a team of us working the case) and more that will either get going or start to get up against certain deadlines. I agree that 2800 would be nuts for practices where you only handle a few cases, but firms with heavier dockets that are struggling to hire (we've hired some people who have absolutely no litigation experience bc things have gotten so desperate) means you are going to bill well past 2000.

With my current firm, we are about a year away from any trials on my team and about 2 years (at least) away for my cases, so that's why my hours are around the 2100 mark (although I could get to 2500 if I had the desire...maybe when I was younger). In 2023, any number between 2500-3000 wouldn't surprise me.

Maybe I am coming at this with the perspective of patent lit, but I don't understand how someone can be doing a good job on any case if they are staffed on 20. But maybe I just don't understand how a more general litigation workflow gets structured.

"Several depositions a week" in particular makes it sound like we are talking about very different jobs. That would add up to something like 100 in a year. Pretty sure there are partners in patent lit who have not done 100 in a career. Is that an insurance litigation practice or something? Genuinly curious what sort of litigation has that sort of volume.

[mardash]

5th year at my second firm. On pace for ~2100-2200 in our fiscal year, 2400 in calendar year 2021. Had a slow ramp up but it's been pretty consistent 200/mo since. But I hit 2800 in my last year at the old firm, so this is still an improvement.

How on earth did you get to 2800 as an associate in lit? 2800 would be about 233 hours a month, if you billed the same amount every month. By itself, that doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility. But a properly staffed lit associate should find it impossible to actually bill the same number every month like that.

Litigation schedules have natural peaks and lulls. Peaks at the begining of the case when you are establishing strategy, near the discovery cutoff, in the ramp up to trial, ect. Lulls during most of discovery, waiting on the Judge to rule on motions, waiting on a trial date that got pushed again, ect. These destroy the ability to bill steadily the same amount each day/week/month, especially as the workhorse associate doing most of the grunt work during the peaks. Because they could all peak at the same time, you cannot be staffed on too many at once or risk them all blowing up simultaneously. That also means that, with lulls, you sometimes just don't have much billable work to do, unless you are being asked to do make-work.

Which is to say if your previous firm was staffing you in such a way that 2800 hours was even possible, I think you did the right thing getting out. The actual number by itself is brutal, but if you were doing that with swings between 160 hours and 300+ hours, that's unhealthy.

The thing that you're missing there is how many cases you are handling. I am handling about 20 cases that are in litigation, with another 5-10 set to go by the end of the year. When I used to be in a more depo-heavy practice at my old firm, I handled about the same amount and would have several depositions a week. Throw in the rest of the practice and hitting 2800 (while I agree is pretty brutal) isn't outside the realm of possibility if you happened to have 1 or 2 small trials or 1 big trial that year. In a less depo-heavy practice, I may have some cases sit for a few months, but then I have other cases that are going (just one massive discovery fight recently put me up at a couple 220 hour months with a team of us working the case) and more that will either get going or start to get up against certain deadlines. I agree that 2800 would be nuts for practices where you only handle a few cases, but firms with heavier dockets that are struggling to hire (we've hired some people who have absolutely no litigation experience bc things have gotten so desperate) means you are going to bill well past 2000.

With my current firm, we are about a year away from any trials on my team and about 2 years (at least) away for my cases, so that's why my hours are around the 2100 mark (although I could get to 2500 if I had the desire...maybe when I was younger). In 2023, any number between 2500-3000 wouldn't surprise me.

Maybe I am coming at this with the perspective of patent lit, but I don't understand how someone can be doing a good job on any case if they are staffed on 20. But maybe I just don't understand how a more general litigation workflow gets structured.

"Several depositions a week" in particular makes it sound like we are talking about very different jobs. That would add up to something like 100 in a year. Pretty sure there are partners in patent lit who have not done 100 in a career. Is that an insurance litigation practice or something? Genuinly curious what sort of litigation has that sort of volume.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was L&E. Agree that being staffed on 20 patent cases (unless you’re like, prolific troll counsel) would be unmanageable.

[Anonymous User]

4th year at a V10 with a sweatshop reputation. Clerked one year. Hours have been 1800, 2400, and this year will be 2000.

I have colleagues who have been in 2700-2900 range for a year so it certainly is possible in lit. You get stuck on the wrong cases and you have rainmaker partners involved who don't see it as their responsibility to re-shuffle the deck. If you ask, you may have permanently dinged your partnership shot. So they didn't ask. Some of those were 2800-ish hours without even going to trial.

2022 is shaping up to be brutal, as someone else mentioned, since multiple case schedules have been pushed for COVID and are lining up for major work next year. I think it will be a very busy year in litigation generally as courts try to catch back up after a bit of a COVID slowdown, which is lingering since they are prioritizing criminal cases still in my experience.

[Anonymous User]

4th year at a lit boutique. Was on track for 3000, slowed down a little and now on track for 2700-2800. I had a trial so hence the crazy number. Last year was 2200. Really need to take a vacation, crazy burnt out.

[Anonymous User]

Third year in my first year at a V10 (clerked twice) and have been billing at a 2100 pace the last six months.

would love to know what firm this is if you are okay PM'ing

Gibson DC.

[Anonymous User]

My first job after clerking was at a lit-focused firm that’s larger than traditional boutiques (think Susman/Boies/Kellogg), and I billed 2500-2600 my first full year and over 2700 in my second. At my current firm, which pays regular market (a pay cut from the above-market comp at the first firm), I’m on track to bill about 2100 this year. Feels good, man.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

I’m a 7th year at a V30 in NYC. I’ve been between 1950-2300 every year.

[Anonymous User]

5th year at my second firm. On pace for ~2100-2200 in our fiscal year, 2400 in calendar year 2021. Had a slow ramp up but it's been pretty consistent 200/mo since. But I hit 2800 in my last year at the old firm, so this is still an improvement.

How on earth did you get to 2800 as an associate in lit? 2800 would be about 233 hours a month, if you billed the same amount every month. By itself, that doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility. But a properly staffed lit associate should find it impossible to actually bill the same number every month like that.

Litigation schedules have natural peaks and lulls. Peaks at the begining of the case when you are establishing strategy, near the discovery cutoff, in the ramp up to trial, ect. Lulls during most of discovery, waiting on the Judge to rule on motions, waiting on a trial date that got pushed again, ect. These destroy the ability to bill steadily the same amount each day/week/month, especially as the workhorse associate doing most of the grunt work during the peaks. Because they could all peak at the same time, you cannot be staffed on too many at once or risk them all blowing up simultaneously. That also means that, with lulls, you sometimes just don't have much billable work to do, unless you are being asked to do make-work.

Which is to say if your previous firm was staffing you in such a way that 2800 hours was even possible, I think you did the right thing getting out. The actual number by itself is brutal, but if you were doing that with swings between 160 hours and 300+ hours, that's unhealthy.

The thing that you're missing there is how many cases you are handling. I am handling about 20 cases that are in litigation, with another 5-10 set to go by the end of the year. When I used to be in a more depo-heavy practice at my old firm, I handled about the same amount and would have several depositions a week. Throw in the rest of the practice and hitting 2800 (while I agree is pretty brutal) isn't outside the realm of possibility if you happened to have 1 or 2 small trials or 1 big trial that year. In a less depo-heavy practice, I may have some cases sit for a few months, but then I have other cases that are going (just one massive discovery fight recently put me up at a couple 220 hour months with a team of us working the case) and more that will either get going or start to get up against certain deadlines. I agree that 2800 would be nuts for practices where you only handle a few cases, but firms with heavier dockets that are struggling to hire (we've hired some people who have absolutely no litigation experience bc things have gotten so desperate) means you are going to bill well past 2000.

With my current firm, we are about a year away from any trials on my team and about 2 years (at least) away for my cases, so that's why my hours are around the 2100 mark (although I could get to 2500 if I had the desire...maybe when I was younger). In 2023, any number between 2500-3000 wouldn't surprise me.

I'm truly curious what type of practice has this volume. Was your old firm a boutique or biglaw?

[Anonymous User]

Junior in lit- on track to hit over 3,000, including pro bono. I try to hit 250 hours a month. To comment on the person that is talking about the ebbs and flows of litigation and wondering how 2800 is possible, maybe my circumstance is different but I don't find that number surprising. I am on one very big matter which provides a constant stream of work (think 40-60 hours billable per week depending on how busy it is). Once I finish one project, I have another one immediately teed up so I am never sitting around waiting for work. Throw in a few other small cases which will require a couple dozen hours per month, and some pro bono projects for when I get slow, and the hours add up.

[Anonymous User]

8th year here at a V70ish firm. Was on pace for 2500 earlier this year, now it looks closer to 2300 with a little slowdown over the summer. I'm busier than my peers, but our office is busy and I don't think anyone is measurably below a 2000-hour pace. I'm also up for partner next year, so I'm saying yes to a lot of things that in years past I might've turned down because I was comfortable being around 2100 hours.

[Anonymous User]

Prior 2800 anon -- other responses have covered the circumstances that led to it. We had a few huge lifts over that time, though no trials (think: replacing another firm 1mo before MSJs, with depos scheduled a week out). The other people at my firm that I saw hitting those kinds of hours were in one or two trials over the year. It's not unfathomable to me at all, and I don't think I was in the top 10 in my office that year in hours.

Junior in lit- on track to hit over 3,000, including pro bono. I try to hit 250 hours a month. To comment on the person that is talking about the ebbs and flows of litigation and wondering how 2800 is possible, maybe my circumstance is different but I don't find that number surprising. I am on one very big matter which provides a constant stream of work (think 40-60 hours billable per week depending on how busy it is). Once I finish one project, I have another one immediately teed up so I am never sitting around waiting for work. Throw in a few other small cases which will require a couple dozen hours per month, and some pro bono projects for when I get slow, and the hours add up.

"Trying to hit 250 hours a month" is, however, unfathomable to me. Even if you live and breathe this stuff and want to do nothing other than the law, IME this is a fast-track to burnout. Please update when you are a 6th year, thx.

=
Litigation schedules have natural peaks and lulls. Peaks at the begining of the case when you are establishing strategy, near the discovery cutoff, in the ramp up to trial, ect. Lulls during most of discovery, waiting on the Judge to rule on motions, waiting on a trial date that got pushed again, ect. These destroy the ability to bill steadily the same amount each day/week/month, especially as the workhorse associate doing most of the grunt work during the peaks. Because they could all peak at the same time, you cannot be staffed on too many at once or risk them all blowing up simultaneously. That also means that, with lulls, you sometimes just don't have much billable work to do, unless you are being asked to do make-work.

As others have pointed out, this isn't always the case. I don't know L&E so can't talk to that, but have had (for example) mass environmental tort cases in which ~5-10 associates were responsible for ~30-40 pending cases at various stages in state and federal court. It is very easy to have a steady stream of briefing, answers, discovery responses, etc. with that kind of staffing, and it's also easy to staff up a team of associates with many more cases than normal since even if they peak at the same time, the same work product can often be turned around and tweaked for the other cases.

[jbagelboy]

Junior in lit- on track to hit over 3,000, including pro bono. I try to hit 250 hours a month. To comment on the person that is talking about the ebbs and flows of litigation and wondering how 2800 is possible, maybe my circumstance is different but I don't find that number surprising. I am on one very big matter which provides a constant stream of work (think 40-60 hours billable per week depending on how busy it is). Once I finish one project, I have another one immediately teed up so I am never sitting around waiting for work. Throw in a few other small cases which will require a couple dozen hours per month, and some pro bono projects for when I get slow, and the hours add up.

Lol

[Anonymous User]

Junior in lit- on track to hit over 3,000, including pro bono. I try to hit 250 hours a month.

You done gone played yourself if you are not at an above-market boutique with that tomfoolery.