NYC: Debevoise, Freshfields, Schulte, or V&E? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Which of the four would you choose? All NY offices. Am interested in corporate work. The international factor is important for me, though not a deal-breaker (things like how international the work is, travel opportunities, the international diversity of the NY office, secondments, and exit opportunities with offices/ entities that are international). General exit opps (both in a legal as well as non-legal (i.e. business) capacity also important. Re: culture fits, I'm pretty social and somewhat easygoing.

[Anonymous User]

Assuming this isn’t a troll post, Debevoise is the answer and it isn’t close

[Anonymous User]

Deb, by 5,000 miles.

[Anonymous User]

Accept Deb tomorrow and congrats! There's no world where any of the others make any sense to pick.

[Anonymous User]

Did any of you read OP's post? If you want int'l work, Freshfields makes sense. But as the others noted, Debevoise is the most prestigious of the NYC firms. You'd have to look into whether Freshfields really facilitates oversees lawyering. A lot of people pick these intl firms but it's not clear to me whether they actually make it easier to work abroad, although it would certainly make sense.

[Anonymous User]

Do you have a specific reason to want to do international work beyond it sounding sexy? Because I can assure you it won’t be sexy when you’re working on a fire drill 8 time zones away.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the replies all, not a troll post!

For all of the Deb stans, is it because it gives better exit options (i.e. since it's considered more prestigious, recruiters, etc would look more favorably on a resume with Deb on it)?

Re: why I want to do international work–- I have a pretty international background, I love meeting people from different cultures and backgrounds, love traveling, and the idea of negotiating (and maybe even flying out to do so) say, an Indian company buying German equipment from a South Korean company does sound pretty sexy to me NGL. I do recognize though that my notions of international work are almost certainly romanticized, the question is to what extent.

On another note, is Freshfields rapid growth in the US (and therefore the opportunity to be part of that, including room for senior advancement) a compelling factor?

[DiligentSage]

Thanks for the replies all, not a troll post!

For all of the Deb stans, is it because it gives better exit options (i.e. since it's considered more prestigious, recruiters, etc would look more favorably on a resume with Deb on it)?

Re: why I want to do international work–- I have a pretty international background, I love meeting people from different cultures and backgrounds, love traveling, and the idea of negotiating (and maybe even flying out to do so) say, an Indian company buying German equipment from a South Korean company does sound pretty sexy to me NGL. I do recognize though that my notions of international work are almost certainly romanticized, the question is to what extent.

On another note, is Freshfields rapid growth in the US (and therefore the opportunity to be part of that, including room for senior advancement) a compelling factor?

These are fairly romantic notions of international work. You're not going to travel to do any negotiations (especially at a junior level and doubly so in the COVID era) and your involvement will be sitting on a call at 4:00 am in the morning to accommodate local counsel on the other side of the globe as they cover diligence details and fail to give you a straight answer to your question so you can shove those tidbits into a diligence memo. All international work does is aggravate the demands of already fairly brutal M&A work on your schedule.

As for the original question, this is easily Debevoise unless you actually plan to practice at some point in a foreign country, in which case Freshfields does offer a notable edge. Their corporate groups are otherwise not really in the same tier from a US perspective.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the replies all, not a troll post!

For all of the Deb stans, is it because it gives better exit options (i.e. since it's considered more prestigious, recruiters, etc would look more favorably on a resume with Deb on it)?

Re: why I want to do international work–- I have a pretty international background, I love meeting people from different cultures and backgrounds, love traveling, and the idea of negotiating (and maybe even flying out to do so) say, an Indian company buying German equipment from a South Korean company does sound pretty sexy to me NGL. I do recognize though that my notions of international work are almost certainly romanticized, the question is to what extent.

On another note, is Freshfields rapid growth in the US (and therefore the opportunity to be part of that, including room for senior advancement) a compelling factor?

You definitely have a romanticized unrealistic view of cross-border work. Working on a deal involving parties in Germany, India and South Korea (to use your example) will often mean getting urgent work during business hours in each of those time zones, which are 6, 9.5 and 13 hours ahead of New York. And of course you’ll also be working new York hours so that’s a recipe for no sleep. Nobody is going to fly you anywhere and, if they do, you’ll be making a brief stop in an office to do diligence and then promptly flying back. It’s not a vacation and you won’t get to see anything.

I would take Deb which is by far the best of the firms you’ve listed and which is also supposed to have a great culture.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the replies all, not a troll post!

For all of the Deb stans, is it because it gives better exit options (i.e. since it's considered more prestigious, recruiters, etc would look more favorably on a resume with Deb on it)?

Re: why I want to do international work–- I have a pretty international background, I love meeting people from different cultures and backgrounds, love traveling, and the idea of negotiating (and maybe even flying out to do so) say, an Indian company buying German equipment from a South Korean company does sound pretty sexy to me NGL. I do recognize though that my notions of international work are almost certainly romanticized, the question is to what extent.

On another note, is Freshfields rapid growth in the US (and therefore the opportunity to be part of that, including room for senior advancement) a compelling factor?

Unless you want to move to an international office (where, by the way, you will be a 2nd tier associate since you don’t have a local law degree), working for “international clients” at a magic circle firm just means having to get on calls at crazy hours to accommodate the time zone differences.

There’s plenty of US pe firms doing foreign deals, you don’t need to work at an international firm to get exposure to those.

[safepairofhands]

Having worked at the NY office of a similar UK-headquartered firm, I would never want to start out at one. As others have said, you are romanticizing the international element and ignoring the international deals you can get at Debevoise. Yes, it's fun to work from the Paris/Madrid/Hong Kong office for a few days at the end of a vacation, but it is no match for the fact that the NY office of a place like Freshfields is more often than not a satellite office performing perfunctory tasks that are at best ancillary to some glamorous deal their London office is doing, but which happen to have a US connection (i.e. incorporating a Delaware LLC, or running lien searches). Go to Debevoise and be part of the team that is actually driving the bus.

Also, I question how well those UK-international firms are actually doing in NY/the US. Even if they are making money, all the shots are called out of London so no matter how much you might be liked by your boss, they can't always advocate for you.

[existentialcrisis]

Thanks for the replies all, not a troll post!

For all of the Deb stans, is it because it gives better exit options (i.e. since it's considered more prestigious, recruiters, etc would look more favorably on a resume with Deb on it)?

Re: why I want to do international work–- I have a pretty international background, I love meeting people from different cultures and backgrounds, love traveling, and the idea of negotiating (and maybe even flying out to do so) say, an Indian company buying German equipment from a South Korean company does sound pretty sexy to me NGL. I do recognize though that my notions of international work are almost certainly romanticized, the question is to what extent.

On another note, is Freshfields rapid growth in the US (and therefore the opportunity to be part of that, including room for senior advancement) a compelling factor?

You definitely have a romanticized unrealistic view of cross-border work. Working on a deal involving parties in Germany, India and South Korea (to use your example) will often mean getting urgent work during business hours in each of those time zones, which are 6, 9.5 and 13 hours ahead of New York. And of course you’ll also be working new York hours so that’s a recipe for no sleep. Nobody is going to fly you anywhere and, if they do, you’ll be making a brief stop in an office to do diligence and then promptly flying back. It’s not a vacation and you won’t get to see anything.

I would take Deb which is by far the best of the firms you’ve listed and which is also supposed to have a great culture.

x1000

[jbagelboy]

Debevoise

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the replies all, not a troll post!

For all of the Deb stans, is it because it gives better exit options (i.e. since it's considered more prestigious, recruiters, etc would look more favorably on a resume with Deb on it)?

Re: why I want to do international work–- I have a pretty international background, I love meeting people from different cultures and backgrounds, love traveling, and the idea of negotiating (and maybe even flying out to do so) say, an Indian company buying German equipment from a South Korean company does sound pretty sexy to me NGL. I do recognize though that my notions of international work are almost certainly romanticized, the question is to what extent.

On another note, is Freshfields rapid growth in the US (and therefore the opportunity to be part of that, including room for senior advancement) a compelling factor?

As for the original question, this is easily Debevoise unless you actually plan to practice at some point in a foreign country, in which case Freshfields does offer a notable edge. Their corporate groups are otherwise not really in the same tier from a US perspective.

Even if this were the case the answer is still Debevoise. FWIW I’m a US associate in a foreign country.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the replies all, not a troll post!

For all of the Deb stans, is it because it gives better exit options (i.e. since it's considered more prestigious, recruiters, etc would look more favorably on a resume with Deb on it)?

Re: why I want to do international work–- I have a pretty international background, I love meeting people from different cultures and backgrounds, love traveling, and the idea of negotiating (and maybe even flying out to do so) say, an Indian company buying German equipment from a South Korean company does sound pretty sexy to me NGL. I do recognize though that my notions of international work are almost certainly romanticized, the question is to what extent.

On another note, is Freshfields rapid growth in the US (and therefore the opportunity to be part of that, including room for senior advancement) a compelling factor?

As for the original question, this is easily Debevoise unless you actually plan to practice at some point in a foreign country, in which case Freshfields does offer a notable edge. Their corporate groups are otherwise not really in the same tier from a US perspective.

Even if this were the case the answer is still Debevoise. FWIW I’m a US associate in a foreign country.

Not OP, but could you elaborate a bit about your experience? Thanks!