WilmerHale NY v Jones Day NY (for corporate) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on which firm would be better place to spend a couple years doing corporate transactional work before trying to pivot to work in house?

[Anonymous User]

WH pays market AFAIK. JD does not. My own decision would end there, but maybe you have other considerations.

[Anonymous User]

WH pays market AFAIK. JD does not. My own decision would end there, but maybe you have other considerations.

+1

No offense to anyone working at JD - and I’m exaggerating here - but it’s middle market. The black box comp system is trash.

[2013]

One pays market and pays above market bonuses for high hours… the other, who knows.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on which firm would be better place to spend a couple years doing corporate transactional work before trying to pivot to work in house?

This is not a close call - WH pays market with potentially above-market bonuses, the NY office does very real corporate work but is also the smallest of the firm’s East Coast offices and muuuuch smaller than most NY firms so it’s a lot easier to connect with partners and have a lot of substantive work experience/learning ops. FWIW I’m a corporate associate at Wilmer in a different office and of all the places I would say we “compete” with for talent I never in a million years would’ve thought that Jones Day would make that list.

[Anonymous User]

JD for lit. Hell yeah.
JD for corp. LOL.

[2013]

JD for lit. Hell yeah.
JD for corp. LOL.

Even for lit, I wouldn’t pick JD unless you’re a SCOTUS clerk.

[Anonymous User]

Yes and not in NY. For both lit and corp in NYC WH>>>>>>>>>>JD.

[ExpOriental]

JD for lit. Hell yeah.
JD for corp. LOL.

Even for lit, I wouldn’t pick JD unless you’re a SCOTUS clerk.

Even then I'd still probably pick Wilmer, but at least there's a case to be made for JD in that instance (political valence, having the firm treat you like you walk on water, near-guaranteed partnership etc.)

Besides joining IA, there's basically never a reason to go to JD in any major market if you can get an offer from a real biglaw firm.

[Anonymous User]

Lol, here we go again with the "Jones Day is TTT" takes. Like or hate the black box, Jones Day has the better-regarded NY corporate group. Chambers ranks it Corporate/M&A: The Elite: Band 4, alongside White & Case and Gibson Dunn. It has Bob Profusek (Band 1) and Randi Lesnick (Band 5), and picked up some big-name former regulators from the last administration. WilmerHale, by contrast, has no ranked corporate practice groups and no ranked corporate lawyers in NY.

Litigation is a different story. I would always take WilmerHale NY over Jones Day NY for litigation unless I could get into Jones Day's I&A group.

[ExpOriental]

Lol, here we go again with the "Jones Day is TTT" takes. Like or hate the black box, Jones Day has the better-regarded NY corporate group. Chambers ranks it Corporate/M&A: The Elite: Band 4, alongside White & Case and Gibson Dunn. It has Bob Profusek (Band 1) and Randi Lesnick (Band 5), and picked up some big-name former regulators from the last administration. WilmerHale, by contrast, has no ranked corporate practice groups and no ranked corporate lawyers in NY.

Litigation is a different story. I would always take WilmerHale NY over Jones Day NY for litigation unless I could get into Jones Day's I&A group.

Stellar advice. If OP ever feels bad about making 30% less than they could've been had they picked a real biglaw firm, they can always look up Bob Profusek's Chambers ranking and that will surely salve the discomfort.

[Anonymous User]

Lol, here we go again with the "Jones Day is TTT" takes. Like or hate the black box, Jones Day has the better-regarded NY corporate group. Chambers ranks it Corporate/M&A: The Elite: Band 4, alongside White & Case and Gibson Dunn. It has Bob Profusek (Band 1) and Randi Lesnick (Band 5), and picked up some big-name former regulators from the last administration. WilmerHale, by contrast, has no ranked corporate practice groups and no ranked corporate lawyers in NY.

Litigation is a different story. I would always take WilmerHale NY over Jones Day NY for litigation unless I could get into Jones Day's I&A group.

Stellar advice. If OP ever feels bad about making 30% less than they could've been had they picked a real biglaw firm, they can always look up Bob Profusek's Chambers ranking and that will surely salve the discomfort.

If OP doesn't want to gamble on the blackbox, that's fine. But Jones Day has a significantly stronger NY corporate group and that matters for training, work, mentorship, and exit options. Is that difference worth a likely $10-20,000 a year ($5-10,000 subtracting taxes)? I'd say "possibly." OP isn't choosing between Jones Day and a similarly-ranked, or even lower-ranked, firm. OP is choosing between a firm that is nationally and locally elite in Corporate/M&A and a firm that is nationally and locally unranked in Corporate/M&A at both the elite and highly-regarded levels.

[Anonymous User]

Is that difference worth a likely $10-20,000 a year ($5-10,000 subtracting taxes)?

Bless your heart if you think the differential is limited to $20k a year on average.

[2013]

Lol, here we go again with the "Jones Day is TTT" takes. Like or hate the black box, Jones Day has the better-regarded NY corporate group. Chambers ranks it Corporate/M&A: The Elite: Band 4, alongside White & Case and Gibson Dunn. It has Bob Profusek (Band 1) and Randi Lesnick (Band 5), and picked up some big-name former regulators from the last administration. WilmerHale, by contrast, has no ranked corporate practice groups and no ranked corporate lawyers in NY.

Litigation is a different story. I would always take WilmerHale NY over Jones Day NY for litigation unless I could get into Jones Day's I&A group.

Stellar advice. If OP ever feels bad about making 30% less than they could've been had they picked a real biglaw firm, they can always look up Bob Profusek's Chambers ranking and that will surely salve the discomfort.

If OP doesn't want to gamble on the blackbox, that's fine. But Jones Day has a significantly stronger NY corporate group and that matters for training, work, mentorship, and exit options. Is that difference worth a likely $10-20,000 a year ($5-10,000 subtracting taxes)? I'd say "possibly." OP isn't choosing between Jones Day and a similarly-ranked, or even lower-ranked, firm. OP is choosing between a firm that is nationally and locally elite in Corporate/M&A and a firm that is nationally and locally unranked in Corporate/M&A at both the elite and highly-regarded levels.

OP is choosing between a market paying firm and a non-market paying firm (that will probably pay closer to $30-50k below). Chambers rankings only matter when you’re deciding between two otherwise equal firms. You act like OP is choosing between JD and a no name shop. Wilmer’s practice isn’t ranked, but OP shouldn’t be fooled into thinking that training will be significantly different at one over the other because of Chambers rankings. The deals won’t be as big and Wilmer focuses on tech. Those are the main differences.

[Anonymous User]

Lol, here we go again with the "Jones Day is TTT" takes. Like or hate the black box, Jones Day has the better-regarded NY corporate group. Chambers ranks it Corporate/M&A: The Elite: Band 4, alongside White & Case and Gibson Dunn. It has Bob Profusek (Band 1) and Randi Lesnick (Band 5), and picked up some big-name former regulators from the last administration. WilmerHale, by contrast, has no ranked corporate practice groups and no ranked corporate lawyers in NY.

Litigation is a different story. I would always take WilmerHale NY over Jones Day NY for litigation unless I could get into Jones Day's I&A group.

Stellar advice. If OP ever feels bad about making 30% less than they could've been had they picked a real biglaw firm, they can always look up Bob Profusek's Chambers ranking and that will surely salve the discomfort.

Seconded. OP, follow the money. It puts bread on the table, unlike Jones Day's Chambers rank.

[Anonymous User]

Lol, here we go again with the "Jones Day is TTT" takes. Like or hate the black box, Jones Day has the better-regarded NY corporate group. Chambers ranks it Corporate/M&A: The Elite: Band 4, alongside White & Case and Gibson Dunn. It has Bob Profusek (Band 1) and Randi Lesnick (Band 5), and picked up some big-name former regulators from the last administration. WilmerHale, by contrast, has no ranked corporate practice groups and no ranked corporate lawyers in NY.

Litigation is a different story. I would always take WilmerHale NY over Jones Day NY for litigation unless I could get into Jones Day's I&A group.

once you're out of band 3 or whatever it really doesn't matter. if this was s&c vs. wh, you'd have a point, but between these two, you don't.

[ExpOriental]

Lol, here we go again with the "Jones Day is TTT" takes. Like or hate the black box, Jones Day has the better-regarded NY corporate group. Chambers ranks it Corporate/M&A: The Elite: Band 4, alongside White & Case and Gibson Dunn. It has Bob Profusek (Band 1) and Randi Lesnick (Band 5), and picked up some big-name former regulators from the last administration. WilmerHale, by contrast, has no ranked corporate practice groups and no ranked corporate lawyers in NY.

Litigation is a different story. I would always take WilmerHale NY over Jones Day NY for litigation unless I could get into Jones Day's I&A group.

Stellar advice. If OP ever feels bad about making 30% less than they could've been had they picked a real biglaw firm, they can always look up Bob Profusek's Chambers ranking and that will surely salve the discomfort.

If OP doesn't want to gamble on the blackbox, that's fine. But Jones Day has a significantly stronger NY corporate group and that matters for training, work, mentorship, and exit options. Is that difference worth a likely $10-20,000 a year ($5-10,000 subtracting taxes)? I'd say "possibly." OP isn't choosing between Jones Day and a similarly-ranked, or even lower-ranked, firm. OP is choosing between a firm that is nationally and locally elite in Corporate/M&A and a firm that is nationally and locally unranked in Corporate/M&A at both the elite and highly-regarded levels.

Very cute of you to say you can "like or hate" black box comp and call it a "gamble," as if it has some potential for upside and isn't just a way for JD to systematically underpay the 99% of its associates that aren't SCOTUS clerks.

And yes, we should definitely use post-tax earnings for your made up black box comp differentials, because that's how everyone discusses salary, not just the people who've realized their argument for making less money for the same work doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.