Is “Unlimited” Pro Bono Real? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I’ve noticed that some firms claim that, at their firm, 100% of pro bono hours count as billable. I realize that this is mostly firm-dependent, but is this actually true or is it just a marketing thing. And I’m not just talking about bonus eligibility either. Does this actually mean that you’d be in good standing at the firm if you did 200 actual billable hours but supplemented that with 1,800 pro bono hours (assuming a 2,000 hour minimum)? That strikes me as very implausible. But, if true, would be pretty great.

[stoopkid13]

IME 100% means 100%, but its not exclusive. So if you bill 1800 hours pro bono, you will get credit for 1800 hours pro bono, but will still need to bill normal work. You might be able to get away with 1200 at my firm (not 200), but thats still a 3000 hour year. Also not all non-billables are equal. Some partners will look more favorably if you help them out on their passion project, or if the pro bono work builds a skill set you wouldn't be exposed to through client work.

[Anonymous User]

The amount of pro bono you'll be able to do has much more to do with the culture of a firm than its formal policy. The above response (it counts as 100%, but you still have to hit 1800 real billables) is not my experience, and I got a full bonus one year with ~1400 real billables and 800 pro bono hours; no one ever said a negative word to me about that and I'm still in good standing. But my firm is one that does genuinely value pro bono as long as associates are getting good experience doing it, and people on the team knew why my pro bono matter was taking up so much time.

I have a hard time seeing how you would realistically get to 1800 pro bono hours and only 200 billables. Even 1000/1000 is rare, though not unheard of. Typically, firms are going to require that a partner approve and supervise pro bono time even if an associate has a pro bono case they want to bring in. And they can and will say no, even at firms that are more accommodating to pro bono, if the case will be too time-consuming or doesn't make sense for other reasons. Though there are exceptions, most biglaw firms work on a relatively narrow slice of pro bono matters (asylum, postconviction relief, domestic violence restraining orders, etc.) that have a set routine and can easily accommodate an associate jumping on for a few months then peacing out. (It is the exceptions -- like going to trial in a high-profile pro bono case, which does happen -- where you can get to lots of pro bono hours in a year, and in those cases there is typically a partner pushing the case very hard who will defend why you spent X hours on pro bono. Or, you'd better hope that there is before you spend 1000 hours on it.)

I worked at another firm that also has unlimited pro bono. But I didn't bill a single pro bono hour because (a) the pro bono partner coordinator said no to each of the cases I brought in and (b) there was no pipeline of pro bono cases coming in through various liaisons with public service organizations, like at my other firm. That is what I mean about firm culture mattering more than the official policy. If this is something that is very important to you, I'd ask every associate you interview with how many pro bono hours they billed this year and last, and how they got those cases.

[ExpOriental]

Assuming that NALP's numbers are trustworthy (I have no reason to think otherwise), you should look there. You will see substantial variation on average pro bono hours between firms that claim "unlimited" pro bono hours.

Hard to say from the outside looking in if that's a product of personal choice or unspoken policy, but it's definitely a useful data point.

[Elston Gunn]

Depends on the firm, but IME yes. It’s just a question of whether you can balance it while still being available for a reasonable amount of paying work. It’s definitely the case that if your firm has a billable cut off for bonus and says that it counts 100% of PB hours for that, that they should follow through on that promise.

[Anonymous User]

The amount of pro bono you'll be able to do has much more to do with the culture of a firm than its formal policy. The above response (it counts as 100%, but you still have to hit 1800 real billables) is not my experience, and I got a full bonus one year with ~1400 real billables and 800 pro bono hours; no one ever said a negative word to me about that and I'm still in good standing. But my firm is one that does genuinely value pro bono as long as associates are getting good experience doing it, and people on the team knew why my pro bono matter was taking up so much time.

I have a hard time seeing how you would realistically get to 1800 pro bono hours and only 200 billables. Even 1000/1000 is rare, though not unheard of. Typically, firms are going to require that a partner approve and supervise pro bono time even if an associate has a pro bono case they want to bring in. And they can and will say no, even at firms that are more accommodating to pro bono, if the case will be too time-consuming or doesn't make sense for other reasons. Though there are exceptions, most biglaw firms work on a relatively narrow slice of pro bono matters (asylum, postconviction relief, domestic violence restraining orders, etc.) that have a set routine and can easily accommodate an associate jumping on for a few months then peacing out. (It is the exceptions -- like going to trial in a high-profile pro bono case, which does happen -- where you can get to lots of pro bono hours in a year, and in those cases there is typically a partner pushing the case very hard who will defend why you spent X hours on pro bono. Or, you'd better hope that there is before you spend 1000 hours on it.)

I worked at another firm that also has unlimited pro bono. But I didn't bill a single pro bono hour because (a) the pro bono partner coordinator said no to each of the cases I brought in and (b) there was no pipeline of pro bono cases coming in through various liaisons with public service organizations, like at my other firm. That is what I mean about firm culture mattering more than the official policy. If this is something that is very important to you, I'd ask every associate you interview with how many pro bono hours they billed this year and last, and how they got those cases.

Any chance you'll name names or reference Vault rankings for both firms? I'm going to a firm with unlimited pro bono...

[Anonymous User]

The amount of pro bono you'll be able to do has much more to do with the culture of a firm than its formal policy. The above response (it counts as 100%, but you still have to hit 1800 real billables) is not my experience, and I got a full bonus one year with ~1400 real billables and 800 pro bono hours; no one ever said a negative word to me about that and I'm still in good standing. But my firm is one that does genuinely value pro bono as long as associates are getting good experience doing it, and people on the team knew why my pro bono matter was taking up so much time.

I have a hard time seeing how you would realistically get to 1800 pro bono hours and only 200 billables. Even 1000/1000 is rare, though not unheard of. Typically, firms are going to require that a partner approve and supervise pro bono time even if an associate has a pro bono case they want to bring in. And they can and will say no, even at firms that are more accommodating to pro bono, if the case will be too time-consuming or doesn't make sense for other reasons. Though there are exceptions, most biglaw firms work on a relatively narrow slice of pro bono matters (asylum, postconviction relief, domestic violence restraining orders, etc.) that have a set routine and can easily accommodate an associate jumping on for a few months then peacing out. (It is the exceptions -- like going to trial in a high-profile pro bono case, which does happen -- where you can get to lots of pro bono hours in a year, and in those cases there is typically a partner pushing the case very hard who will defend why you spent X hours on pro bono. Or, you'd better hope that there is before you spend 1000 hours on it.)

I worked at another firm that also has unlimited pro bono. But I didn't bill a single pro bono hour because (a) the pro bono partner coordinator said no to each of the cases I brought in and (b) there was no pipeline of pro bono cases coming in through various liaisons with public service organizations, like at my other firm. That is what I mean about firm culture mattering more than the official policy. If this is something that is very important to you, I'd ask every associate you interview with how many pro bono hours they billed this year and last, and how they got those cases.

Any chance you'll name names or reference Vault rankings for both firms? I'm going to a firm with unlimited pro bono...

As far as I know, I am one of two people who has worked for both firms and remains employed by one of them, so no, that would be a pretty big self-out even with anon posting. I can share that they are both on the west coast and both tout their pro bono work. I agree with the person above who suggests checking NALP. Otherwise, my advice to ask associates about their actual time spent on pro bono is how I'd go about sussing this out in your shoes.

[Anonymous User]

I'm at an unlimited pro bono firm in a corporate practice and had a year of 1550 billable and 500 pro bono. We have a 2000 hour bonus eligibility cutoff. No issues at all with respect to the bonus, but I was "encouraged" to increase my billables for the next year by partners in my group.

[LBJ's Hair]

yes, there's just an understanding is you're not gonna treat your law firm job as a nonprofit job and bill 100 hours a month pro bono and 50 paid for a full year

[Anonymous User]

In my experience, if the assigning partner (or whoever doles out jobs) sees that you are billing a lot of pro bono but not a lot of paid work, they will consider you available for assignments and just give you more paid work until you can't take on any more pro bono after the case or cases you are on wrap up and making your life until they do exceedingly difficult.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve noticed that some firms claim that, at their firm, 100% of pro bono hours count as billable. I realize that this is mostly firm-dependent, but is this actually true or is it just a marketing thing. And I’m not just talking about bonus eligibility either. Does this actually mean that you’d be in good standing at the firm if you did 200 actual billable hours but supplemented that with 1,800 pro bono hours (assuming a 2,000 hour minimum)? That strikes me as very implausible. But, if true, would be pretty great.

TL;DR unlimited pro bono is real in the sense that all of the pro bono that you do might count toward your billable hours requirement. But it generally does not count toward your capacity for work, and staffing generally sees how many hours you are billing to pro bono vs. how many hours you are billing to paying matters. You're still expected to be doing a certain amount of work for paying matters and pro bono is taken generally in addition to whatever else you're working on.

[ExpOriental]

https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/2021 ... -rankings/

These numbers should be of interest.

You should still look at NALP, though, because NALP breaks it down in more detail. Some firms will be relatively underranked by AmLaw because their averages are dragged down by partnerships that don't do much pro bono.

(It seems that partners universally do a lot less pro bono on an hourly basis than associates, but this difference is more emphatic at some firms)

[Pneumonia]

Yes, it is real. But there are are caveats that essentially reduce to "be reasonable and use good judgment." You can bill as much as you need to do a good job on the pro bono matters that you have. On the other hand, if you have several active (50+ hours/month) pro bono matters, don't go looking for more. You can bill 750+ hours to researching and drafting a federal complaint and case-strategy memo in a complicated 1983 case and no one will bat an eye. But the same time to several dozen landlord-tenant cases would probably draw attention if your pure billables were below 1800 or so.

[Anonymous User]

I’m at an unlimited firm and it’s real. There are entire weeks when I only do pro bono. Also, because it is a part of the culture of the firm, some of it isn’t even really “voluntary.” Our practice coordinator has staffed me on pro bono matters with partners numerous times. I don’t care because at the end of the day, our pro bono and other bonus eligible work (knowledge management and articles) are unlimited and I’ve already billed enough hours that I’m profitable for the year.

[Anonymous User]

Yes, there are firms that legitimately credit each (approved) pro Bono hour towards your overall billable minimums. No, it will not excuse you from doing any paid work. Meaning, IME, even the firms most dedicated to pro Bono—places that win the AMLaw awards and such—will expect you to have some paying cases, and will not simply take “no” for an answer on every matter for any paying client just because you are very busy on pro Bono. It’s always a balance.

Not including campaign work, the best I have heard is someone who billed 600 pro Bono hours in a year, compared to probably about 1400-1500 paid hours.

[Anonymous User]

I’m at an unlimited firm and it’s real. There are entire weeks when I only do pro bono. Also, because it is a part of the culture of the firm, some of it isn’t even really “voluntary.” Our practice coordinator has staffed me on pro bono matters with partners numerous times. I don’t care because at the end of the day, our pro bono and other bonus eligible work (knowledge management and articles) are unlimited and I’ve already billed enough hours that I’m profitable for the year.

Are you at Latham?

[Elston Gunn]

Yes, there are firms that legitimately credit each (approved) pro Bono hour towards your overall billable minimums. No, it will not excuse you from doing any paid work. Meaning, IME, even the firms most dedicated to pro Bono—places that win the AMLaw awards and such—will expect you to have some paying cases, and will not simply take “no” for an answer on every matter for any paying client just because you are very busy on pro Bono. It’s always a balance.

Not including campaign work, the best I have heard is someone who billed 600 pro Bono hours in a year, compared to probably about 1400-1500 paid hours.

I’ve seen a few people do well over a 1000 (without greatly exceeding the overall target). But that only worked because it was all on one giant case that brought the firm a lot of publicity. (This happened on different cases over time, but they were all similar situations.) You couldn’t get away with that with dozens of landlord-tenant matters, like a poster above noted.

[Anonymous User]

TL;DR unlimited pro bono is real in the sense that all of the pro bono that you do might count toward your billable hours requirement. But it generally does not count toward your capacity for work, and staffing generally sees how many hours you are billing to pro bono vs. how many hours you are billing to paying matters. You're still expected to be doing a certain amount of work for paying matters and pro bono is taken generally in addition to whatever else you're working on.

This reflects the position at my V10 with unlimited pro bono.

[Anonymous User]

I’m at an unlimited firm and it’s real. There are entire weeks when I only do pro bono. Also, because it is a part of the culture of the firm, some of it isn’t even really “voluntary.” Our practice coordinator has staffed me on pro bono matters with partners numerous times. I don’t care because at the end of the day, our pro bono and other bonus eligible work (knowledge management and articles) are unlimited and I’ve already billed enough hours that I’m profitable for the year.

Are you at Latham?

No, but I’ve heard Latham is very similar.