Laterals to NY, did your firm require you to have bar admission starting? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Looking to transfer to my firm's NY office from another UBE jurisdiction. I am a 4th year so I will be able to waive in based on 5 years of practice next summer.

My firm is hesitating because the client matters I have been working on "are used to Denver rates and won't tolerate a New York associate's rate". I don't mind doing more M&A and other corporate matters that can tolerate a NY rate, but they want me to stay in this niche practice since we have less than 6 associates at my firm in this particular corporate subpractice (and I am in the "cheapest" office right now). Plus, they have the discretion to adjust my rate to make it work and I have seen them do it in other offices so I went back with that.

Now, they are saying that they don't think they can list me on the firm's website as an associate in the New York office until I am admitted to the Bar there and therefore they cannot pay me on the NY office's salary scale until Bar admission. This smells like complete bullshit. I have been looking for the rules on this but am having trouble and looking to get back to them asap. Any chance anyone here as insight on the rules here?

Or, any laterals out there who made a move to NY before you were admitted? Did your firm put you on the website with the standard "Not admitted to practice in NY" disclaimer or were you really held off until you were admitted? Did you have a different pay scale or have to take "law clerk" pay until you were admitted?

In case it matters, I am in a corporate transactional group. Bar admission has never impacted my practice.

[Anonymous User]

Looking to transfer to my firm's NY office from another UBE jurisdiction. I am a 4th year so I will be able to waive in based on 5 years of practice next summer.

My firm is hesitating because the client matters I have been working on "are used to Denver rates and won't tolerate a New York associate's rate". I don't mind doing more M&A and other corporate matters that can tolerate a NY rate, but they want me to stay in this niche practice since we have less than 6 associates at my firm in this particular corporate subpractice (and I am in the "cheapest" office right now). Plus, they have the discretion to adjust my rate to make it work and I have seen them do it in other offices so I went back with that.

Now, they are saying that they don't think they can list me on the firm's website as an associate in the New York office until I am admitted to the Bar there and therefore they cannot pay me on the NY office's salary scale until Bar admission. This smells like complete bullshit. I have been looking for the rules on this but am having trouble and looking to get back to them asap. Any chance anyone here as insight on the rules here?

Or, any laterals out there who made a move to NY before you were admitted? Did your firm put you on the website with the standard "Not admitted to practice in NY" disclaimer or were you really held off until you were admitted? Did you have a different pay scale or have to take "law clerk" pay until you were admitted?

In case it matters, I am in a corporate transactional group. Bar admission has never impacted my practice.

Sounds very weird, I see people with the "not admitted to practice in X" all the time. In fact, I know several people who moved jurisdictions and have been working out of the new office for quite some time now. Can't comment on the pay aspect because I've only seen transfers between offices on the same scale, but I can see the change in salary becoming effective only after bar passage, since you're not officially a "NY" attorney before then.

Also isn't law clerk pay the same as associate pay?

[Anonymous User]

Looking to transfer to my firm's NY office from another UBE jurisdiction. I am a 4th year so I will be able to waive in based on 5 years of practice next summer.

My firm is hesitating because the client matters I have been working on "are used to Denver rates and won't tolerate a New York associate's rate". I don't mind doing more M&A and other corporate matters that can tolerate a NY rate, but they want me to stay in this niche practice since we have less than 6 associates at my firm in this particular corporate subpractice (and I am in the "cheapest" office right now). Plus, they have the discretion to adjust my rate to make it work and I have seen them do it in other offices so I went back with that.

Now, they are saying that they don't think they can list me on the firm's website as an associate in the New York office until I am admitted to the Bar there and therefore they cannot pay me on the NY office's salary scale until Bar admission. This smells like complete bullshit. I have been looking for the rules on this but am having trouble and looking to get back to them asap. Any chance anyone here as insight on the rules here?

Or, any laterals out there who made a move to NY before you were admitted? Did your firm put you on the website with the standard "Not admitted to practice in NY" disclaimer or were you really held off until you were admitted? Did you have a different pay scale or have to take "law clerk" pay until you were admitted?

In case it matters, I am in a corporate transactional group. Bar admission has never impacted my practice.

Sounds very weird, I see people with the "not admitted to practice in X" all the time. In fact, I know several people who moved jurisdictions and have been working out of the new office for quite some time now. Can't comment on the pay aspect because I've only seen transfers between offices on the same scale, but I can see the change in salary becoming effective only after bar passage, since you're not officially a "NY" attorney before then.

Also isn't law clerk pay the same as associate pay?

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought the not admitted disclaimer was a normal thing. I am going to offer to sit for the first available NY Bar exam, but I know they will bring back another excuse.

I think law clerk pay is the same as 1st year associate pay, but I am a 4th year.

[LBJ's Hair]

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought the not admitted disclaimer was a normal thing. I am going to offer to sit for the first available NY Bar exam, but I know they will bring back another excuse.

I think law clerk pay is the same as 1st year associate pay, but I am a 4th year.

the hesitancy RE NY rates seems fairly normal to me. paying you a first year's salary - as a fourth year - is fucking absurd

[Anonymous User]

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought the not admitted disclaimer was a normal thing. I am going to offer to sit for the first available NY Bar exam, but I know they will bring back another excuse.

I think law clerk pay is the same as 1st year associate pay, but I am a 4th year.

the hesitancy RE NY rates seems fairly normal to me. paying you a first year's salary - as a fourth year - is fucking absurd

Agreed. What's fascinating to me is that I communicated my desire to move back east and the firm has been adamant that I don't need to leave the firm and go to another law firm, and they want me to stay and will support me working in NY. I have been relying on that (and not pursuing a lateral move) until this week when I pressed on details since our comp. decisions happen in October... they then clarified that yes, they support my move by letting me "work remote" in NY and that I should "feel free to use the office there" but that I would still be a Denver associate for all intents and purposes and keep my current Denver salary.

Also, I have been clear that I am happy to do more M&A work which our firm is desperately looking for more associates (and not rate sensitive), but they know they can't find a replacement in my subpractice which will severely hamper that group so they're not even letting me solve the problem myself. I love my partners and coworkers, but this feels like a nonsensical move on their part if they want me to stay.

The cost of the salary difference for my firm would be about $50k a year if they didn't raise my rates at all. They can afford to make it happen. We're an Am Law 100 firm and the firm is financially very healthy.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Also, I have been clear that I am happy to do more M&A work which our firm is desperately looking for more associates (and not rate sensitive), but they know they can't find a replacement in my subpractice which will severely hamper that group so they're not even letting me solve the problem myself. I love my partners and coworkers, but this feels like a nonsensical move on their part if they want me to stay.

you gotta lateral unfortunately. These dipshits are simultaneously pushing you out the door and also giving you a decent launchpad by letting you stay on for now at Denver rates.

It's never been easier to retool to a NYC corporate practice. Start talking to recruiters.

[Anonymous User]

Also, I have been clear that I am happy to do more M&A work which our firm is desperately looking for more associates (and not rate sensitive), but they know they can't find a replacement in my subpractice which will severely hamper that group so they're not even letting me solve the problem myself. I love my partners and coworkers, but this feels like a nonsensical move on their part if they want me to stay.

you gotta lateral unfortunately. These dipshits are simultaneously pushing you out the door and also giving you a decent launchpad by letting you stay on for now at Denver rates.

It's never been easier to retool to a NYC corporate practice. Start talking to recruiters.

Thoughts on whether it's better for a lateral app to be able to say "I'm applying because I am moving and my firm doesn't do office transfers." or "I'm here in NY and applying because my firm is not giving me market pay."? I guess I'm wondering if I should make the move now (I'm flexible on date) then start applying or if I should start applying for lateral jobs now then make the move.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Also, I have been clear that I am happy to do more M&A work which our firm is desperately looking for more associates (and not rate sensitive), but they know they can't find a replacement in my subpractice which will severely hamper that group so they're not even letting me solve the problem myself. I love my partners and coworkers, but this feels like a nonsensical move on their part if they want me to stay.

you gotta lateral unfortunately. These dipshits are simultaneously pushing you out the door and also giving you a decent launchpad by letting you stay on for now at Denver rates.

It's never been easier to retool to a NYC corporate practice. Start talking to recruiters.

Thoughts on whether it's better for a lateral app to be able to say "I'm applying because I am moving and my firm doesn't do office transfers." or "I'm here in NY and applying because my firm is not giving me market pay."? I guess I'm wondering if I should make the move now (I'm flexible on date) then start applying or if I should start applying for lateral jobs now then make the move.

The former is an extremely common reason for lateralling. "I want to work in NYC for xyz reasons. Your firm's NYC office is excellent for [practice area]." If the lateral market weren't so hot, maybe you'd need to come up with a more nuanced narrative here, but it is, so you don't really.