DPW vs. S&C Forum

[lost3039]

Very lucky to have offers at both. Leaning towards DPW because I like litigation and have heard they have good exit options to government work. On the other hand, maybe S&C is more "elite" and therefore has better exit options? Thought I meshed well with both of their cultures in my albeit limited virtual callback. Also hoping to clerk sometime in my career if that changes things. Very unsure on what to pick so looking for any advice that can range from good ways to distinguish firms to pick X because of Y. Thanks.

[LBJ's Hair]

Leaning towards DPW because I like litigation and have heard they have good exit options to government work.

I dunno about this. others (practicing lawyers, not 2Ls) should chime in, but my impression has been that DPW's litigation practice is like, quietly ... pretty slow? not hiring clerks, phasing out midlevels, etc. maybe things have turned around, was hearing all this pre-COVID.

know S&C lit is super busy

On the other hand, maybe S&C is more "elite" and therefore has better exit options?

I don't think S&C is any "better," in a "brand" sense, than DPW. they're both very-well-regarded, V10, traditional white-shoe NY firms that hire people w/good grades from the same set of schools.

no one's gonna be like "oh well, we know S&C, great firm. but DPW? nah, second-tier"--this sort of person or client or w/e does not exist

Also hoping to clerk sometime in my career if that changes things.

doesn't affect this decision. just means you can go somewhere else post-clerkship if you end up making the "wrong"--for you--choice. (or even the "right" choice but you decide you wanna try somethign else)

[lost3039]

Leaning towards DPW because I like litigation and have heard they have good exit options to government work.

I dunno about this. others (practicing lawyers, not 2Ls) should chime in, but my impression has been that DPW's litigation practice is like, quietly ... pretty slow? not hiring clerks, phasing out midlevels, etc. maybe things have turned around, was hearing all this pre-COVID.

know S&C lit is super busy

On the other hand, maybe S&C is more "elite" and therefore has better exit options?

I don't think S&C is any "better," in a "brand" sense, than DPW. they're both very-well-regarded, V10, traditional white-shoe NY firms that hire people w/good grades from the same set of schools.

no one's gonna be like "oh well, we know S&C, great firm. but DPW? nah, second-tier"--this sort of person or client or w/e does not exist

Also hoping to clerk sometime in my career if that changes things.

doesn't affect this decision. just means you can go somewhere else post-clerkship if you end up making the "wrong"--for you--choice. (or even the "right" choice but you decide you wanna try somethign else)

Thanks for the response! Based on what you said here it seems like S&C may have the edge for having a more busy lit practice?

[Anonymous User]

Leaning towards DPW because I like litigation and have heard they have good exit options to government work.

I dunno about this. others (practicing lawyers, not 2Ls) should chime in, but my impression has been that DPW's litigation practice is like, quietly ... pretty slow? not hiring clerks, phasing out midlevels, etc. maybe things have turned around, was hearing all this pre-COVID.

know S&C lit is super busy

On the other hand, maybe S&C is more "elite" and therefore has better exit options?

I don't think S&C is any "better," in a "brand" sense, than DPW. they're both very-well-regarded, V10, traditional white-shoe NY firms that hire people w/good grades from the same set of schools.

no one's gonna be like "oh well, we know S&C, great firm. but DPW? nah, second-tier"--this sort of person or client or w/e does not exist

Also hoping to clerk sometime in my career if that changes things.

doesn't affect this decision. just means you can go somewhere else post-clerkship if you end up making the "wrong"--for you--choice. (or even the "right" choice but you decide you wanna try somethign else)

Thanks for the response! Based on what you said here it seems like S&C may have the edge for having a more busy lit practice?

Can confirm that S&C lit is super busy. They just lost a lot of juniors who went to start clerkships, which can’t help in terms of available bodies, but they seem to be firing on all cylinders.

[Anonymous User]

didn’t S&C fuck over their summers last year?

based on the people I know at s&c, I’d go to DPW lol

[Anonymous User]

didn’t S&C fuck over their summers last year?

based on the people I know at s&c, I’d go to DPW lol

What’s your sample size? This is not a great advice…

[Anonymous User]

didn’t S&C fuck over their summers last year?

based on the people I know at s&c, I’d go to DPW lol

What’s your sample size? This is not a great advice…

The second part was meant to be more of a joke, though it’s true, of course a few people doesn’t make a firm. The firm has a reputation of being stuffier and the people I know there fit right in.

But the first part (re: S&C screwing their summers) is an important thing to take into account.

[Anonymous User]

didn’t S&C fuck over their summers last year?

based on the people I know at s&c, I’d go to DPW lol

What’s your sample size? This is not a great advice…

The second part was meant to be more of a joke, though it’s true, of course a few people doesn’t make a firm. The firm has a reputation of being stuffier and the people I know there fit right in.

But the first part (re: S&C screwing their summers) is an important thing to take into account.

Got it. That’s fair. I just think that OP should consider these firms’ relative strength in practice areas he/she wants to do and the difference in work assignment systems, more so than whether a firm paid its summer associates 6-week vs 10-week salary during pandemic.

[Anonymous User]

I don't get this comparison. S&C is on the slide and has been for ~5 years? Am at a peer firm, I see DPW the whole time and literally in my 3 years have seen S&C on one "big" matter.

[Anonymous User]

I don't get this comparison. S&C is on the slide and has been for ~5 years? Am at a peer firm, I see DPW the whole time and literally in my 3 years have seen S&C on one "big" matter.

Is this a troll? lol. Can anyone who’s not a 2l confirm whether S&C litigation is on the slide? I feel like this forum is full of ppl shitting on Cravath/S&C.

[lost3039]

Getting very confused right now. Need some clarification.

didn’t S&C fuck over their summers last year?

based on the people I know at s&c, I’d go to DPW lol

What’s your sample size? This is not a great advice…

The second part was meant to be more of a joke, though it’s true, of course a few people doesn’t make a firm. The firm has a reputation of being stuffier and the people I know there fit right in.

But the first part (re: S&C screwing their summers) is an important thing to take into account.

Is S&C the "stuffier" one here?

I don't get this comparison. S&C is on the slide and has been for ~5 years? Am at a peer firm, I see DPW the whole time and literally in my 3 years have seen S&C on one "big" matter.

What does on the "slide" mean? Like it is has been doing worse and worse over the years?



So culture-wise it seems like DPW has the edge/is a nicer?

[Anonymous User]

Getting very confused right now. Need some clarification.

didn’t S&C fuck over their summers last year?

based on the people I know at s&c, I’d go to DPW lol

What’s your sample size? This is not a great advice…

The second part was meant to be more of a joke, though it’s true, of course a few people doesn’t make a firm. The firm has a reputation of being stuffier and the people I know there fit right in.

But the first part (re: S&C screwing their summers) is an important thing to take into account.

Is S&C the "stuffier" one here?

I don't get this comparison. S&C is on the slide and has been for ~5 years? Am at a peer firm, I see DPW the whole time and literally in my 3 years have seen S&C on one "big" matter.

What does on the "slide" mean? Like it is has been doing worse and worse over the years?



So culture-wise it seems like DPW has the edge/is a nicer?

Hey OP, don’t take everything ppl say here at face value. If you want to do white collar or securities litigation, S&C is hard to beat. If you want to do antitrust, go to DPW. And yes, culture-wise, DPW might be “nicer” than S&C.

[lost3039]

Getting very confused right now. Need some clarification.

didn’t S&C fuck over their summers last year?

based on the people I know at s&c, I’d go to DPW lol

What’s your sample size? This is not a great advice…

The second part was meant to be more of a joke, though it’s true, of course a few people doesn’t make a firm. The firm has a reputation of being stuffier and the people I know there fit right in.

But the first part (re: S&C screwing their summers) is an important thing to take into account.

Is S&C the "stuffier" one here?

I don't get this comparison. S&C is on the slide and has been for ~5 years? Am at a peer firm, I see DPW the whole time and literally in my 3 years have seen S&C on one "big" matter.

What does on the "slide" mean? Like it is has been doing worse and worse over the years?



So culture-wise it seems like DPW has the edge/is a nicer?

Hey OP, don’t take everything ppl say here at face value. If you want to do white collar or securities litigation, S&C is hard to beat. If you want to do antitrust, go to DPW. And yes, culture-wise, DPW is might be “nicer” than S&C.

Thank you for the response! When people say things like DPW is "nicer" than S&C what does that mean? Like more cooperative? Less work? Treat associates better? Confused on what exactly "nice" entails.

[Anonymous User]

Just summered in S&C lit. Chose between CSM DPW and S&C and one boutique. I took S&C purely because I vibed with the people in my callbacks and touchbacks more and the generalist model seemed preferable for my first biglaw job. Extremely happy I went to S&C even tho i was anxious over things posted about the firm in this forum.

1. Lit is heavy on securities, white collar, and Rx work. Most people are on at least one pro-bono, often ACLU matters. The lit group seems to have a ton of work rn for better or worse.
2. Culturally I was shocked by the difference between what's posted here and what I saw. There were groups that went out 4x a week, people who were stuffy, and everything in-between. I honestly didn't meet a lit associate who was miserable for culture reasons - the ones who were looking to leave had either burned out from hours or were headed to clerkships.
3. I legit don't think you can wrong here. DPW/s&C are v similar firms and I think you should go with ur gut based on who you enjoyed meeting more from the respective firms. Just my two cents.

[LBJ's Hair]

I don't get this comparison. S&C is on the slide and has been for ~5 years? Am at a peer firm, I see DPW the whole time and literally in my 3 years have seen S&C on one "big" matter.

Can anyone who’s not a 2l confirm whether S&C litigation is on the slide?

it's not. no idea what this person is talking about. maybe they just practice in an area S&C doesn't do much work in.

[lost3039]

Just summered in S&C lit. Chose between CSM DPW and S&C and one boutique. I took S&C purely because I vibed with the people in my callbacks and touchbacks more and the generalist model seemed preferable for my first biglaw job. Extremely happy I went to S&C even tho i was anxious over things posted about the firm in this forum.

1. Lit is heavy on securities, white collar, and Rx work. Most people are on at least one pro-bono, often ACLU matters. The lit group seems to have a ton of work rn for better or worse.
2. Culturally I was shocked by the difference between what's posted here and what I saw. There were groups that went out 4x a week, people who were stuffy, and everything in-between. I honestly didn't meet a lit associate who was miserable for culture reasons - the ones who were looking to leave had either burned out from hours or were headed to clerkships.
3. I legit don't think you can wrong here. DPW/s&C are v similar firms and I think you should go with ur gut based on who you enjoyed meeting more from the respective firms. Just my two cents.

Thank you. Dumb question, perhaps, but I googled "Rx litigation" and I guess this is like pharmaceutical class action type stuff? Just want to confirm that that is what RX lit means.

[becodalapa]

Just summered in S&C lit. Chose between CSM DPW and S&C and one boutique. I took S&C purely because I vibed with the people in my callbacks and touchbacks more and the generalist model seemed preferable for my first biglaw job. Extremely happy I went to S&C even tho i was anxious over things posted about the firm in this forum.

1. Lit is heavy on securities, white collar, and Rx work. Most people are on at least one pro-bono, often ACLU matters. The lit group seems to have a ton of work rn for better or worse.
2. Culturally I was shocked by the difference between what's posted here and what I saw. There were groups that went out 4x a week, people who were stuffy, and everything in-between. I honestly didn't meet a lit associate who was miserable for culture reasons - the ones who were looking to leave had either burned out from hours or were headed to clerkships.
3. I legit don't think you can wrong here. DPW/s&C are v similar firms and I think you should go with ur gut based on who you enjoyed meeting more from the respective firms. Just my two cents.

Thank you. Dumb question, perhaps, but I googled "Rx litigation" and I guess this is like pharmaceutical class action type stuff? Just want to confirm that that is what RX lit means.

RX in this context is usually (always?) restructuring.

[lost3039]

Thanks that makes way more sense lol

[lost3039]

Additionally, and I apologize if this is a dumb question, but I have heard that DPW callbacks are way more selective and focus on fit when compared to S&C callbacks. Do you think that at all effects the quality of associate personality at DPW when compared to S&C. I.e, DPW associates are more normal and personable?

[Anonymous User]

Just summered in S&C lit. Chose between CSM DPW and S&C and one boutique. I took S&C purely because I vibed with the people in my callbacks and touchbacks more and the generalist model seemed preferable for my first biglaw job. Extremely happy I went to S&C even tho i was anxious over things posted about the firm in this forum.

1. Lit is heavy on securities, white collar, and Rx work. Most people are on at least one pro-bono, often ACLU matters. The lit group seems to have a ton of work rn for better or worse.
2. Culturally I was shocked by the difference between what's posted here and what I saw. There were groups that went out 4x a week, people who were stuffy, and everything in-between. I honestly didn't meet a lit associate who was miserable for culture reasons - the ones who were looking to leave had either burned out from hours or were headed to clerkships.
3. I legit don't think you can wrong here. DPW/s&C are v similar firms and I think you should go with ur gut based on who you enjoyed meeting more from the respective firms. Just my two cents.

Thank you. Dumb question, perhaps, but I googled "Rx litigation" and I guess this is like pharmaceutical class action type stuff? Just want to confirm that that is what RX lit means.

RX in this context is usually (always?) restructuring.

One caveat—I will note that some firms consider RX lit to be a subset of RX. It's not really focused on the corporate aspects of a chapter 11 but more on any litigation issues that arise. So the practice of RX lit can be pretty different than just pure RX. At my former firm, the RX group would handle the standard chapter 11 work and if any litigations arose out of the chapter 11 (let's say there's some preferential transfer issue), then the RX group would hand that off to the RX litigators. One related intuition is that there generally aren't too many RX litigators bc it's a pretty niche group. Not sure if this is true for S&C but wanted to point it out

[Anonymous User]

Additionally, and I apologize if this is a dumb question, but I have heard that DPW callbacks are way more selective and focus on fit when compared to S&C callbacks. Do you think that at all effects the quality of associate personality at DPW when compared to S&C. I.e, DPW associates are more normal and personable?

Bruh just relax and go where your gut tells you to go. These are nearly identical places with hundreds of people - they will have cool people, insane people, and weird people. Don’t worry too much - you’re likely gonna be there only a few years with the same exits regardlsas

[lost3039]

Additionally, and I apologize if this is a dumb question, but I have heard that DPW callbacks are way more selective and focus on fit when compared to S&C callbacks. Do you think that at all effects the quality of associate personality at DPW when compared to S&C. I.e, DPW associates are more normal and personable?

Bruh just relax and go where your gut tells you to go. These are nearly identical places with hundreds of people - they will have cool people, insane people, and weird people. Don’t worry too much - you’re likely gonna be there only a few years with the same exits regardlsas

Yeah, you're probably right, I may be overthinking these small things.

[Anonymous User]

Additionally, and I apologize if this is a dumb question, but I have heard that DPW callbacks are way more selective and focus on fit when compared to S&C callbacks. Do you think that at all effects the quality of associate personality at DPW when compared to S&C. I.e, DPW associates are more normal and personable?

Bruh just relax and go where your gut tells you to go. These are nearly identical places with hundreds of people - they will have cool people, insane people, and weird people. Don’t worry too much - you’re likely gonna be there only a few years with the same exits regardlsas

Yeah, you're probably right, I may be overthinking these small things.

This is the correct response. These are very similar (and very good) choices and you just relax and trust your instincts to make the right call.

[Anonymous User]

DPW lit is extremely busy right now across white collar, general commercial, antitrust, and IP. Not sure what basis poster above had to say it was slow, it's definitely not at all. One thing to consider is that lit at BL firms slows down when an administration deregulates (ie Trump) and heats up when regulation heats up (ie Biden). DPW just offered August work to summers who want it in both corp and lit because the firm is so busy.