Best firms for a poor interviewer Forum

[jennaisthecat]

I struggle with interviewing. I'm top 15% at GULC. I am going to work with career services to get better at interviewing. Are there any firms in particular I should target?

[Anonymous User]

S&C

[Anonymous User]

Among the top NYC firms, S&C is probably still the answer with the caveat the >GPA=auto offer thing is declining rapidly there from the #s I've seen from past OCIs at CLS/NYU/HLS. The cb-offer ratio is now like 65-70% at CLS, for example, where it was like 90% in previous years.

[Anonymous User]

SullCrom, so long as you are over their GPA floor. (Yes, the “auto offer” thing is in decline but the firm is still a noticeable outlier in this regard.)

OP, if it’s any consolation, you’re probably not as bad at interviewing as you fear.

[Anonymous User]

Among the top NYC firms, S&C is probably still the answer with the caveat the >GPA=auto offer thing is declining rapidly there from the #s I've seen from past OCIs at CLS/NYU/HLS. The cb-offer ratio is now like 65-70% at CLS, for example, where it was like 90% in previous years.

At my T6, S&C's callback -> offer rate is still a bit higher than the other white shoe NYC shops (like 5-8% higher) so definitely true it is easier to get an offer from a CB but doesn't feel like a huge difference from the peers.

Also worth noting that S&C's screener -> callback rate is a decent clip lower than it's peers so it's possible that they are screening more harshly at the screener stage while peers are willing to give "impress me" callbacks to less probable candidates.

[jennaisthecat]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I shot an application off to S&C. I had a few interviewers tell me at the end of our interview/in an email afterwards to feel free reach out to them if I had any questions. I will do that over the next few days for those interviews that don’t translate into CBs, and hopefully be able to get some candid, brutally honest advice.

[ClubberLang]

Between getting a job at S&C, and addressing interview issues, it is probably easier to address interview issues. You likely won't get great feedback from folks you've already interviewed with, but maybe do some mock interviews with friends or lawyers you know and get comfortable.

You don't need to be everyone's best friend to succeed in an interview. Be prepared, look sharp, know something about the firm and its practices, and have some go-to questions about teamwork dynamics and training. If they ask you questions about your favorite class, always identify a class that involved working on a team.

[hdr]

Disregard everything in this thread about S&C. When I went through OCI the poor interviewers generally didn't get past the S&C screener. Everyone in the top 15% interviews at S&C so if you're among the worst of the interviewers you won't get a CB. Target firms that median GULC students go to; at least one will probably overlook your interviewing.

But you really should do whatever it takes to improve your interviewing. Do mock interviews with friends who will give you candid advice. I doubt you're hopelessly awkward; tons of interviewers lack social skills. You just need good answers for what practices interest you, why the firm is appealing, etc. Don't go into these interviews saying you have no idea whether you'd prefer lit or corp or that you just want to do appellate lit.

I would not reach out to anyone you've already interviewed with for feedback. If you are severely underperforming based on your grades, you might be able to have career services reach out for feedback (they did this at my school for a couple students).

[Anonymous User]

I just summered at S&C, went thru winter OCI at CLS. S&C has a slightly higher callback-offer ratio than CSM/DPW/PW but only slightly and takes about 35% of screeners to CB (about equal to the others). I think it's changing its ways from the past.

[Anonymous User]

No joke - beta blockers

[jennaisthecat]

Disregard everything in this thread about S&C. When I went through OCI the poor interviewers generally didn't get past the S&C screener. Everyone in the top 15% interviews at S&C so if you're among the worst of the interviewers you won't get a CB. Target firms that median GULC students go to; at least one will probably overlook your interviewing.

But you really should do whatever it takes to improve your interviewing. Do mock interviews with friends who will give you candid advice. I doubt you're hopelessly awkward; tons of interviewers lack social skills. You just need good answers for what practices interest you, why the firm is appealing, etc. Don't go into these interviews saying you have no idea whether you'd prefer lit or corp or that you just want to do appellate lit.

I would not reach out to anyone you've already interviewed with for feedback. If you are severely underperforming based on your grades, you might be able to have career services reach out for feedback (they did this at my school for a couple students).

I've had other people tell me to reach out directly for feedback, I'm curious why you advise against it? I have no problem with OCS doing it for me if that's the better option. When I do mock interviews with friends is there anything specific I should look for? Any mistakes that you typically see in interviews that sink a candidate's chances?

Everyone I really appreciate the advice. Its helpful to hear from all of you.

[ClubberLang]

Disregard everything in this thread about S&C. When I went through OCI the poor interviewers generally didn't get past the S&C screener. Everyone in the top 15% interviews at S&C so if you're among the worst of the interviewers you won't get a CB. Target firms that median GULC students go to; at least one will probably overlook your interviewing.

But you really should do whatever it takes to improve your interviewing. Do mock interviews with friends who will give you candid advice. I doubt you're hopelessly awkward; tons of interviewers lack social skills. You just need good answers for what practices interest you, why the firm is appealing, etc. Don't go into these interviews saying you have no idea whether you'd prefer lit or corp or that you just want to do appellate lit.

I would not reach out to anyone you've already interviewed with for feedback. If you are severely underperforming based on your grades, you might be able to have career services reach out for feedback (they did this at my school for a couple students).

I've had other people tell me to reach out directly for feedback, I'm curious why you advise against it? I have no problem with OCS doing it for me if that's the better option. When I do mock interviews with friends is there anything specific I should look for? Any mistakes that you typically see in interviews that sink a candidate's chances?

Everyone I really appreciate the advice. Its helpful to hear from all of you.

On the feedback point, there is no incentive for the interviewer to provide candid feedback and they won't. Your friends (unless they are practicing) won't be able to provide great feedback either, but the idea there is to get practice and be more comfortable with interviewing.

A big mistake is having a generic response to why you want to work some place. If the firm you are interviewing with promotes itself with a line like "we are lawyers who take patent cases to trial," you should say you want to work there because you want to patent trial work, and have some reason why that is the case. It doesn't have to be a great reason, but demonstrated interest goes a long way.

But don't think about it in terms of mistakes. Think about it in terms of how to differentiate yourself. Succeeding at a law firm is all about teamwork, attention to detail, and relationships. Have a few anecdotes from your past that speak to these issues that you can call upon when asked miscellaneous behavioral type questions. Also make sure there is at least one thing on your resume that is interesting and be prepared to talk about it. Like I said before, you don't need to be everyone's best friend, but you should be able to comfortably shoot the breeze with anyone for 20 minutes. If you can't do that, practice.

[Anonymous User]

Disregard everything in this thread about S&C. When I went through OCI the poor interviewers generally didn't get past the S&C screener. Everyone in the top 15% interviews at S&C so if you're among the worst of the interviewers you won't get a CB. Target firms that median GULC students go to; at least one will probably overlook your interviewing.

But you really should do whatever it takes to improve your interviewing. Do mock interviews with friends who will give you candid advice. I doubt you're hopelessly awkward; tons of interviewers lack social skills. You just need good answers for what practices interest you, why the firm is appealing, etc. Don't go into these interviews saying you have no idea whether you'd prefer lit or corp or that you just want to do appellate lit.

I would not reach out to anyone you've already interviewed with for feedback. If you are severely underperforming based on your grades, you might be able to have career services reach out for feedback (they did this at my school for a couple students).

I've had other people tell me to reach out directly for feedback, I'm curious why you advise against it? I have no problem with OCS doing it for me if that's the better option. When I do mock interviews with friends is there anything specific I should look for? Any mistakes that you typically see in interviews that sink a candidate's chances?

Everyone I really appreciate the advice. Its helpful to hear from all of you.

An interviewer might've done 10 screeners in a day. How much are they going to remember about you more than 24 hours out? They might give you a platitude or two if you're lucky.

[nixy]

I don't think it hurts to reach out to interviewers for feedback, I just don't think you're likely to get very useful information. First, it's true that interviewers are busy and see a lot of interviewees, especially for screeners. Second, firms can be reluctant to say much for fear of opening themselves up to a lawsuit if anything could be construed as judging you on something illegal (age, gender, race, etc).

But mostly, you didn't do anything wrong, it's just that other candidates were just a little bit better - better grades, school, relevant experience, connections, whatever, including ability to shoot the shit for 20 minutes in a way that the interviewer enjoys. And what one interviewer subjectively enjoys is different from what another interviewer subjectively enjoys. It's almost impossible for an interviewer to give you feedback on this kind of thing that's anything other than "be someone else."

So I strongly doubt you'd get any candid, brutally honest advice.

I guess I'd turn it back around to you - why do you say you struggle with interviewing? What do you struggle with?

[hdr]

I've had other people tell me to reach out directly for feedback, I'm curious why you advise against it? I have no problem with OCS doing it for me if that's the better option. When I do mock interviews with friends is there anything specific I should look for? Any mistakes that you typically see in interviews that sink a candidate's chances?

First, when you get rejected it's probably just because you didn't make as good an impression as other interviewees, not because you messed up in any particular way. Second, even if you did, I doubt an interviewer would give you candid feedback. If you're drastically underperforming your grades--e.g. you get only one callback from the top twenty firms in your targeted markets--then career services might be able to reach out to a few firms and say "hey, we've got this student who's getting rejected everywhere, we'd really like to know if he's doing something wrong...." More interviewers would probably be willing to offer candid feedback in those circumstances.

The most common mistake I see is that an interviewee simply doesn't have a good reason for wanting my firm. They have no idea what they want to do and what about my firm makes it a good fit and instead they're just interviewing at a list of firms where they'd be competitive based on GPA. I'm going to select the person who says "I'm interested in capital markets and your firm has a great capital markets group in this city" (even though I have no idea what capital markets even does) over the person who just offers generic statements about my firm and hasn't given any thought to what groups interest them ("maybe litigation, but I also want to try corporate" probably isn't going to cut it).

[jennaisthecat]

I don't think it hurts to reach out to interviewers for feedback, I just don't think you're likely to get very useful information. First, it's true that interviewers are busy and see a lot of interviewees, especially for screeners. Second, firms can be reluctant to say much for fear of opening themselves up to a lawsuit if anything could be construed as judging you on something illegal (age, gender, race, etc).

But mostly, you didn't do anything wrong, it's just that other candidates were just a little bit better - better grades, school, relevant experience, connections, whatever, including ability to shoot the shit for 20 minutes in a way that the interviewer enjoys. And what one interviewer subjectively enjoys is different from what another interviewer subjectively enjoys. It's almost impossible for an interviewer to give you feedback on this kind of thing that's anything other than "be someone else."

So I strongly doubt you'd get any candid, brutally honest advice.

I guess I'd turn it back around to you - why do you say you struggle with interviewing? What do you struggle with?

Based on everyone’s feedback, I think the problem is that I did not have good answers for why I wanted to work at that particular firm or in that particular practice area. I didn’t understand what sort of answer you were supposed to have or what a good answer to that question is, now I do.