AUSA office transfer? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Probably a stupid question but can AUSAs request a change of office if there’s an opening

[Anonymous User]

Not really. There is a mechanism for being transferred if you go to a new office, so you don’t have a break in service and all your leave transfers and so on, but you will still have to go through the whole application process like everyone else to get the job in the new office to start with.

I do know someone who was able to do a “hardship transfer” because their spouse was active military and got transferred, but there had to be an opening at the other office and the other office had to approve (they did because this person had previously worked at the other office and the other office liked them). I’m not sure how much luck they’d have had if the other office didn’t know them already, and I don’t know what hardships qualify. Like, the military thing makes sense because it’s also part of the government and you have no control over where you go, but I’m not sure if other family issues would count.

If you’re already an AUSA and have some pressing personal reason to need to move I don’t see any harm in checking with your HR person what the possibilities are. But it doesn’t work if you just want to move to a different city.

[andythefir]

It’s more complicated than that. First, moving from El Paso to Dallas is way harder than Amarillo to Dallas because El Paso and Dallas are in different divisions. Some main offices use branches as their farm teams to see up close if people are good before moving to the main office. Second, some offices like border divisions are less prestigious, which means that they’re much harder to pivot away from. Third, US Attorneys have every kind of applicant apply for every opening. So if they want a clerk or a trial expert or a white collar/drug/child enticement expert, they’ll get it. Another problem is per the pay scale USAOs can pay a 20+ year attorney the same as a 9 year attorney, so you start to age out at year 7 out of law school. So if you clerk>DA>big law>USAO where you don’t actually want to be you can turn into a pumpkin for your dream USAO because you’re too expensive.

Ultimately usaos are somewhere/anywhere propositions. If you’re willing to go anywhere, you can apply all over the country. Then if you get good reviews and good references, you’ve got a better shot than someone with no USAO experience if you want to move. But if you want to be in one specific USAO you might do everything right and still strike out because the USA wants a clerk over a DA or vice versa.

[Anonymous User]

It’s more complicated than that. First, moving from El Paso to Dallas is way harder than Amarillo to Dallas because El Paso and Dallas are in different divisions. Some main offices use branches as their farm teams to see up close if people are good before moving to the main office. Second, some offices like border divisions are less prestigious, which means that they’re much harder to pivot away from. Third, US Attorneys have every kind of applicant apply for every opening. So if they want a clerk or a trial expert or a white collar/drug/child enticement expert, they’ll get it. Another problem is per the pay scale USAOs can pay a 20+ year attorney the same as a 9 year attorney, so you start to age out at year 7 out of law school. So if you clerk>DA>big law>USAO where you don’t actually want to be you can turn into a pumpkin for your dream USAO because you’re too expensive.

Ultimately usaos are somewhere/anywhere propositions. If you’re willing to go anywhere, you can apply all over the country. Then if you get good reviews and good references, you’ve got a better shot than someone with no USAO experience if you want to move. But if you want to be in one specific USAO you might do everything right and still strike out because the USA wants a clerk over a DA or vice versa.

I'm the anon who posted above you, and in case I didn't make it clear enough, yes, if someone is already an AUSA and applies to another office, there's no guarantee they'll get it. They'll have to go through the application process and may well lose out to another candidate with more pertinent experience or a better pedigree or who better fits what the current USA wants to hire or just does better in the interview. Also, how often openings even arise varies a lot by office and administration and economy.

That said, I'm an AUSA who changed offices and I know *multiple* AUSAs who have changed offices. I don't think it's quite as dire as you make it sound above. I know many people who've left border districts for other offices. I know multiple people who've been hired at 7+ years out of school and more. And I know multiple people who've ended up hired by the specific district they'd been targeting after starting as an AUSA somewhere else. Usually they have ties, but not always.

[andythefir]

I’m glad it worked for folks, and it’s completely appropriate to hope one office will look approvingly at experience in another office. If you also are ok with multiple offices in multiple districts your odds for up considerably. But if you’re shooting for one, and only one, you can’t guarantee anything. US attorneys can be as arbitrary and capricious as they like in hiring.

[Anonymous User]

Anon AUSA again. Sure, like basically any other employer, USAs get to decide what their office needs and what they want to prioritize in hiring. If you’re shooting for one and only one law firm, you can’t guarantee getting hired there, either.

To return to the original question, though: nope, you can’t simply transfer to another office if there’s an opening. You have to apply and as my argument with andythefir suggests, there are a lot of factors that go into getting it. I do think current AUSAs tend to have a leg up over never-AUSAs in an application pool, given my own experience and the experience of many AUSAs I’ve known, but that’s no guarantee (for instance you might have the experience that I had of losing out to another AUSA looking to change offices). If you do get hired by a second office they might actually just transfer you, but only after the standard application process.

[Anonymous User]

I do not mean to hijack this thread, but I'm an AUSA and was hoping to get thoughts from other AUSAs. As someone mentioned above, the USAO pay scale seems to max people out pretty easily. When you're maxed out, are you concerned about the lack of salary increases? Do you have a side hustle? What kind of side hustle would be possible?

I contemplated returning to private practice, but it was a soul-crushing experience. I also think that it would be very difficult to return to a USAO because it was hard enough to get a position in the first place. Plus, once you're maxed out, I'd imagine you "turn into a pumpkin" (as was mentioned earlier).

It seems like there are efforts to get AUSAs on the GS pay scale, but I have little hope of that happening anytime soon.

[Anonymous User]

Not to sound Pollyanna-ish, but I’m not really concerned about being maxed out, but largely for personal reasons. I didn’t come from private practice so this is the highest salary I’ve ever made in my life (including in my pre-law school career), my spouse works, we don’t have/want kids, and I live in a relatively low COL area that happens to have a great locality adjustment because it’s in commuting distance (at least theoretically) to a much more expensive city. I’m also a bit older so won’t have as long a period of work left once I max out (it’s not like I’m going to max out at 40 and still have like 25 years of work left, which would just be psychologically different from maxing out within a few years of retirement, I think).

But it’s a fair enough concern in contexts that don’t look like mine. Ironically I knew of a state court of appeals judge who resigned after a number of years to go back to being appellate chief at the local USAO, because the USAO gig paid better (and they had kids going to college). They’re apparently now heading the appellate unit for the local DA with a salary somewhere in the low $200s.

I think the salary cap is one reason why people take on supervisory positions (also for pension purposes, to get the three years of that higher salary set for your pension calculation), which depends of course on your office and if/when there are openings. Plus your tolerance for bureaucracy.

But I don’t know anyone with side hustles. Doesn’t mean no one has any, I just think the ethics rules make it complicated (I personally also don’t want to devote the time because while this job isn’t biglaw, it’s not exactly a cushy 9-5 either). I guess the closest is teaching classes at the local law school, although I don’t know if what you make per class is really worth it economically (probably depends on the school).

FWIW, I’ve worked in smaller markets where the USAO is one of the better gigs, and my offices have been filled with lifers. Going (back) to private practice has been pretty rare, partly because there are so few local biglaw gigs, and partly because the office caseload doesn’t lend itself to sophisticated private practice work. Most people I’ve seen leave either become private defense attorneys, go to Main Justice, or become judges.

All this is probably very different if you’re an AUSA in, say, NDCA/SDNY/EDVA or the like.