Morgan Stanley's GC wants law firms back in office Forum

[Anonatty]

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business- ... the-office

For those working at the firms listed, any updates or discussions at your firms about this?

[Ultramar vistas]

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business- ... the-office

For those working at the firms listed, any updates or discussions at your firms about this?

I’m really on the fence about this whole thing. Gone from being very pro work from home to a gradual realization that it has to be limited to a few people.

Our first years are hopelessly undeveloped (even if they all think they can run a deal because they’ve done 12 SPACs) and burned out, and there’s a worry that there’s a bit of a lost generation there. I really think that we’re not doing anything good for first years by letting them work from home.

Even for mid levels and seniors, while it’s obvious that once you reach a certain level you can function remotely without any negative impacts, what I’ve noticed is that it’s been harder to properly mentor and train juniors, and as a result I’m doing more junior work than I would have to if I were in the office and could walk down the hall to see who is busy. So there’s a negative impact on us too, even if it’s mitigated by working from home.

It’s a conundrum - juniors need to be in the office with seniors to effectively learn, but seniors don’t need to be in the office at all, and feel resentful of being told to come back. Ultimately, I think most client services are going to end up being largely in person, and after a few years and a couple changes in leadership (all it takes is once c-suite exec who really cares about this stuff) most other companies will be back to 75% in person.

[Anonymous User]

I continue to be confused by these all or nothing attitudes. Sure, there are benefits to working with others in the office. But we do not have to be in the office five days a week to realize those benefits. Hybrid models where people are in the office three days a week or so are and should be the future. You can get the benefits of remote work and in-person work. It’s not all or nothing.

As to first years being hopelessly undeveloped, well that’s partially on them and those responsible for mentoring them. I’m a first year who started remotely and is now back in the office 3-4 days a week. I loved WFH and frankly didn’t feel like it affected my development at all, but I had to take a lot of initiative and ask questions and such. I’m also in a small group where I’m constantly working with the same people (and thus forming relationships that way), and the seniors in my group are great at mentoring me. It takes work to learn remotely but it is absolutely doable.

[Ultramar vistas]

As to first years being hopelessly undeveloped, well that’s partially on them and those responsible for mentoring them. I’m a first year who started remotely and is now back in the office 3-4 days a week. I loved WFH and frankly didn’t feel like it affected my development at all, but I had to take a lot of initiative and ask questions and such. I’m also in a small group where I’m constantly working with the same people (and thus forming relationships that way), and the seniors in my group are great at mentoring me. It takes work to learn remotely but it is absolutely doable.

Agreed it’s not all or nothing. Hybrid is totally the way forward.

But regardless of who is at fault (it’s definitely not on the first years), whether or not it’s doable, particularly in small groups and when the mentoring is good, is kind of irrelevant because it wasn’t done. Biglaw is powered by the larger corporate groups and the first years in those groups are way behind where they should be. If you never experienced the pre-pandemic model, it’s hard to appreciate the things that were missed.

[Anonymous User]

As to first years being hopelessly undeveloped, well that’s partially on them and those responsible for mentoring them. I’m a first year who started remotely and is now back in the office 3-4 days a week. I loved WFH and frankly didn’t feel like it affected my development at all, but I had to take a lot of initiative and ask questions and such. I’m also in a small group where I’m constantly working with the same people (and thus forming relationships that way), and the seniors in my group are great at mentoring me. It takes work to learn remotely but it is absolutely doable.

Agreed it’s not all or nothing. Hybrid is totally the way forward.

But regardless of who is at fault (it’s definitely not on the first years), whether or not it’s doable, particularly in small groups and when the mentoring is good, is kind of irrelevant because it wasn’t done. Biglaw is powered by the larger corporate groups and the first years in those groups are way behind where they should be. If you never experienced the pre-pandemic model, it’s hard to appreciate the things that were missed.

Can you explain what makes you say first years are hopelessly undeveloped? What things would you normally expect first years to be able to do that yours can't?

I'm also a first year in a big corporate group and we're back in the office. Not entirely sure what the big push was for since everything is still on zoom, people email and call me with work, comments, etc. the same way they did when we were remote. Nothing has changed other than I have to waste a bunch of time on a commute, I get less sleep, and I have to sit in my office all day. All apparently for no real reason in particular. I think going back in person will accelerate burnout for me, and I've spoken to many other first years who feel the same way. Each day just takes more out of me when I have to commute and spend the majority of the day trapped in the office.

[Anonymous User]

As to first years being hopelessly undeveloped, well that’s partially on them and those responsible for mentoring them. I’m a first year who started remotely and is now back in the office 3-4 days a week. I loved WFH and frankly didn’t feel like it affected my development at all, but I had to take a lot of initiative and ask questions and such. I’m also in a small group where I’m constantly working with the same people (and thus forming relationships that way), and the seniors in my group are great at mentoring me. It takes work to learn remotely but it is absolutely doable.

Agreed it’s not all or nothing. Hybrid is totally the way forward.

But regardless of who is at fault (it’s definitely not on the first years), whether or not it’s doable, particularly in small groups and when the mentoring is good, is kind of irrelevant because it wasn’t done. Biglaw is powered by the larger corporate groups and the first years in those groups are way behind where they should be. If you never experienced the pre-pandemic model, it’s hard to appreciate the things that were missed.

Can you explain what makes you say first years are hopelessly undeveloped? What things would you normally expect first years to be able to do that yours can't?

I'm also a first year in a big corporate group and we're back in the office. Not entirely sure what the big push was for since everything is still on zoom, people email and call me with work, comments, etc. the same way they did when we were remote. Nothing has changed other than I have to waste a bunch of time on a commute, I get less sleep, and I have to sit in my office all day. All apparently for no real reason in particular. I think going back in person will accelerate burnout for me, and I've spoken to many other first years who feel the same way. Each day just takes more out of me when I have to commute and spend the majority of the day trapped in the office.

Just don’t comply. That’s what I’m doing. I go in 3 days a week. Everything is still on zoom and all work is discussed via phone or email so there’s no benefit other than accelerating burnout. No one has said anything to me yet.