Why is it so hard to get legal aid staff attorney and government jobs? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I went to a T14 law school and it was a cakewalk for me and my peers to land Biglaw jobs. I am still in the early stages of my career, but most of my colleagues and I realize already that this is not worth it long-term and many of us are trying to switch into legal aid and government. But jobs are scarce and extremely difficult to land. People seem to be lifers and never leave these positions for a vacancy to open up. I only see two types of profiles in these roles - those that did nothing but public service since Day 1 in law school and/or attended a T6 school, did appellate clerkships, DOJ Honors, worked in legal aid right out of law school, etc.

Any advice on making this transition? What kind of profile do you need?

[jotarokujo]

I went to a T14 law school and it was a cakewalk for me and my peers to land Biglaw jobs. I am still in the early stages of my career, but most of my colleagues and I realize already that this is not worth it long-term and many of us are trying to switch into legal aid and government. But jobs are scarce and extremely difficult to land. People seem to be lifers and never leave these positions for a vacancy to open up. I only see two types of profiles in these roles - those that did nothing but public service since Day 1 in law school and/or attended a T6 school, did appellate clerkships, DOJ Honors, worked in legal aid right out of law school, etc.

Any advice on making this transition? What kind of profile do you need?

i think if you went to a t14 and still tried after 1L you shouldn't be in a terrible position. i think the only people who are actually screwed for these kinds of jobs are people who just coasted at their t14 after OCI and treated law school like a vacation. granted that probably cuts out like a solid 1/3 of people from lower t14s

[nixy]

I went to a T14 law school and it was a cakewalk for me and my peers to land Biglaw jobs. I am still in the early stages of my career, but most of my colleagues and I realize already that this is not worth it long-term and many of us are trying to switch into legal aid and government. But jobs are scarce and extremely difficult to land. People seem to be lifers and never leave these positions for a vacancy to open up. I only see two types of profiles in these roles - those that did nothing but public service since Day 1 in law school and/or attended a T6 school, did appellate clerkships, DOJ Honors, worked in legal aid right out of law school, etc.

Any advice on making this transition? What kind of profile do you need?

i think if you went to a t14 and still tried after 1L you shouldn't be in a terrible position. i think the only people who are actually screwed for these kinds of jobs are people who just coasted at their t14 after OCI and treated law school like a vacation. granted that probably cuts out like a solid 1/3 of people from lower t14s

I don't think this is really the case at all. It depends a lot on the job. I don't think the OP is screwed, but it's not an easy transition. Most public sector/public interest jobs want to see demonstrated commitment to the mission of the agency/organization, and relevant experience. That is usually more important than grades or school name (not that good grades/high-ranking school ever hurt, but they're not sufficient on their own). Someone who did nothing in law school other than get a biglaw job and then work a biglaw job isn't a particularly compelling candidate, unless the biglaw work is transferrable to the mission of the employer. It's just that biglaw isn't often directly transferable to the public sector, when you have a lot of applicants who did spend their time in law school getting relevant experience and have been working in the public sector since graduation. I do think some federal and high-level city jobs are more likely to hire out of biglaw, but I think you need more like 5-7 years experience (it sounds like the OP isn't quite there yet).

Also, connections always help, but I think a lot of local government jobs (and here I do mean like city government and such, not PD/DA jobs) really depend on who you know, in part because who runs those agencies can be really political. I knew of someone who was doing transportation work (public transport, airports, highways, etc) within a city government because they'd worked at a firm with someone else who got appointed to be the head of the transportation agency and who brought over all their own staff, that kind of thing.

OP, you're not really wrong about the typical background for typical applicants in those jobs. Keep in mind that those employers never have enough money or time for training, so it's sort of tough to distinguish yourself at this point in your career, where you have some experience but maybe not enough to hit the ground running in this kind of job. You also have to work harder to prove that you really do want to leave the extremely well paid world of biglaw and take what is often a massive paycut with a lot fewer resources to support you.

I think it helps to narrow down what kind of legal aid/government job you want, and then work on developing skills that make you competitive for that specific job. If you want that kind of work because of the work conditions - like it's not biglaw hours, it's 9-5 with decent benefits, much less pay but way more time - that's totally cool, I completely get that. There's nothing wrong with that. But you will need to be able to sell yourself to people who are hiring to support a specific mission. So if you want a PD/DA gig, do as much criminal pro bono as your firm will let you. If you want to do various forms of legal aid, try to get, say, housing pro bono cases, or volunteer for tax clinics for the indigent, or to help people write wills. If you want some kind of local government gig, look at (say) your city government, learn its structure, think hard about what kinds of skills the gig would want and how you can get those skills where you are (and try to get to know as many people as you can).

I would also say, go to CLEs and relevant bar events and start talking to people about what they like about their jobs and how they got them, but that's still probably not a real option yet. But if you can find any alums from your school a few years ahead of you in the gigs you want, reach out and ask if they'd be willing to spare half an hour to answer some questions about how they got into the field, especially if you can find any who started in big law. (Stalk LinkedIn for this.)

[Anonymous User]

Coming from a legal aid attorney:

To answer the question of why it's hard to get these jobs compared to big law: There are fewer of them, and they tend not to be structured so that you have the obvious 2L SA gig --> hired if you don't fuck up path that makes landing the first gig a cakewalk if you have the right grades and the right school (which it sounds like you and your friends did). And as you seem to have noticed, a lot of people end up being lifers in these kinds of jobs, at least the desirable ones. If someone finds a job they like that balances work/life + doing something they care about + acceptable salary, why WOULD they leave? Benefits also tend to be very good (especially for federal government, and the unionized legal aid orgs, which is a lot of them).

So, all that adds up to less positions being available, and those positions being available at less predictable intervals. And that's even more so if you're far enough along that you're not applying to the true entry level jobs (a lot of PD/DA jobs do hire entry level classes). And if you've started looking recently, you're probably seeing even more restricted offerings that normal; a lot of legal aid orgs cut down on their hiring because of COVID-related budget restraints.

As for profile, I agree with nixy's general advice about a) figuring out what you want to do, and b) getting experience in that area through pro bono, volunteering, whatever it takes. At least on the legal aid side, the people doing the hiring tend to really believe in the cause, and they want to hire people who have proven that they do, too. Plus, if you're going for a position with a lot of client interaction (which is most legal aid positions), they want proof that you're able to work well and compassionately with indigent clients.

Someone who did nothing in law school other than get a biglaw job and then work a biglaw job isn't a particularly compelling candidate, unless the biglaw work is transferrable to the mission of the employer.

This is exactly it. You're going to be up against people who have been doing this kind of work all throughout law school and after in internships/clinics/post-grad fellowships/etc. You need to give them a reason to pick you, and without a background in it, that's going to be hard to go. Big law alone is not disqualifying, but, frankly, big law without some sort of legal aid type experience in law school or via pro bono work probably is.

All that said, my sense is that some of the government side is a bit different, and more likely to hire out of big law. I know a lot of people go big law --> prosecutor, for instance. Though there, too, you're going to be up against people who have a proven track record of interest. That is, all the people I know who wanted to do prosecution (and to some extent government regulatory stuff as well) did internships, externships, or clinics in the area, plus took relevant classes; even if they went to big law first for the experience, they lay the ground work for where they wanted their career to go, and kept pursuing related opportunities in their big law positions.

Obviously, switching paths within the legal field is doable! But you are going to need to build up proof of both skillset and interest in whatever specific area you want to target.

[LittleRedCorvette]

I went to a T14 law school and it was a cakewalk for me and my peers to land Biglaw jobs. I am still in the early stages of my career, but most of my colleagues and I realize already that this is not worth it long-term and many of us are trying to switch into legal aid and government. But jobs are scarce and extremely difficult to land. People seem to be lifers and never leave these positions for a vacancy to open up. I only see two types of profiles in these roles - those that did nothing but public service since Day 1 in law school and/or attended a T6 school, did appellate clerkships, DOJ Honors, worked in legal aid right out of law school, etc.

Any advice on making this transition? What kind of profile do you need?

They're hard to get because wealthy white women who used to practice in biglaw take them after marrying another biglaw attorney who completely subsidize their philanthropic endeavors.

[nls336]

I went to a T14 law school and it was a cakewalk for me and my peers to land Biglaw jobs. I am still in the early stages of my career, but most of my colleagues and I realize already that this is not worth it long-term and many of us are trying to switch into legal aid and government. But jobs are scarce and extremely difficult to land. People seem to be lifers and never leave these positions for a vacancy to open up. I only see two types of profiles in these roles - those that did nothing but public service since Day 1 in law school and/or attended a T6 school, did appellate clerkships, DOJ Honors, worked in legal aid right out of law school, etc.

Any advice on making this transition? What kind of profile do you need?

They're hard to get because wealthy white women who used to practice in biglaw take them after marrying another biglaw attorney who completely subsidize their philanthropic endeavors.

Big yikes.

[nixy]

Like, it can be an issue in certain public interest jobs (especially more prestigious ones) that people with family wealth dominate because they don't need to worry about salary. But yeah, big yikes to that comment.

[lavarman84]

I'll echo Nixy's advice that getting pro bono experience, especially if you work with the organizations that interest you (allowing them to see your work and what it's like to work with you), is a good idea.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Like, it can be an issue in certain public interest jobs (especially more prestigious ones) that people with family wealth dominate because they don't need to worry about salary. But yeah, big yikes to that comment.

PSLF also distorts things. PSLF-eligible jobs "pay" much much more than they actually do.

[Anonymous User]

I went to a T-14 and worked in big law for 3 years. I just jumped to state government and am now helping out with the interview process for a position in our unit. The two candidates going forward to the final round both come from big law. My agency is full of big law refugees, I think the hiring managers acknowledge that you are smart and hardworking if you lasted a few years in big law.

[andythefir]

First, some gigs like the jag have supervisors that went to bad schools and/or got bad grades because when times were good those were the only jobs available. So now when those jobs are scarce, schools that have established direct to jag pipelines have a major leg up.

Second, it really depends on the market. The Midwest and California are completely flooded with law students and semi-employed lawyers, where in the rural mountain west, you can get whatever legal job you want-it just pays garbage.

[Anonymous User]

If you aren't that mission-oriented and enjoy private practice but want less hours for less money, you could also consider switching markets, though you need ties. Omaha biglaw is a very different beast from New York biglaw and has a much more reasonable lifestyle. And those jobs, if you have ties and good grades at a T14, are not exceptionally hard to get because your biglaw experience is actually a plus, not a minus.

[Anonymous User]

The job opportunities outside of criminal and family law are rare. I'm a legal aid attorney that does mostly refugee law and I've seen less than 5 job postings for my specialization each year. When I worked with the government, it was similarly difficult to break into unless you had 5+ years of specialized experience or were coming straight in through a student recruitment program. I got into government and legal aid careers right out of law school but I focused only on this since my first year of law school and I graduated from a top school.

Going to a top school and focusing only on public interest (which is very hard since everyone is gunning for Big law and corporate jobs) will help you a lot to stand out. The majority of my peers went into Biglaw. Ironically, many of them used to mock me in law school for pursuing the less lucrative path but now they want my same job. There is no structured recruitment process to get these jobs and law school CDOs do a piss poor job of marketing these careers to students. I navigated the process entirely on my own. If you have done nothing but corporate then you would not be competitive for most of these positions.

[whats an updog]

IMO public defenders or NPO lifers have a chip on their shoulders against people who went biglaw first. People in government tend to not. And to the person above--I don't deny that people may have mocked you for pursuing something less lucrative, but for every one of those types there is some holier-than-thou-fuck-all-prosecutors-to-hell NPO type. Both are tiresome.