what's worse in your biglaw job: total hours vs predictability Forum

[jotarokujo]

what's the worse aspect of biglaw for you
would you work more total hours if you could have more predictability? vice versa?

[Anonymous User]

Damn near impossible to enjoy freedom of less hours when you're essentially on call 24/7, fire drills, lack of timelines rooted in reality (at least in transactional work).

[Wubbles]

By far the lack of predictability and consistency is worse than the hours. I have a lot of days where I only bill 8 hours but are still shitty because of how the hours might trickle in over the course of the day or come in all at once

[Anonymous User]

No one really prepares you for the days that are slow until 8 PM and then busy until midnight. Your evening plans are shot out of nowhere and you still don't manage to hit your hours target for the day.

[atwinta]

lack of predictability as well as lack of meaningful purpose (the latter is even more important)

[Anonymous User]

By far the lack of predictability and consistency is worse than the hours. I have a lot of days where I only bill 8 hours but are still shitty because of how the hours might trickle in over the course of the day or come in all at once

I think this is why the vast majority of biglaw associates I've spoken with prefer working from home. Billing only 8 hours from 8 am to 8 pm isn't nearly as bad if I can watch a show with my boyfriend, walk my dog, work out, etc. during my downtime. If I'm in the office from 9 am to 6 pm, bill 4 hours, and then have to bill another 6 as soon as I get home... fuck that.

[Anonymous User]

I literally chose finance over M&A because it would be more predictable. The work is more boring and my exit opps are probably slightly worse, but man the predictability is nice.

[Anonymous User]

I literally chose finance over M&A because it would be more predictable. The work is more boring and my exit opps are probably slightly worse, but man the predictability is nice.

Same, but there's still quite a bit of unpredictability. Not as bad as M&A though.

[Anonymous User]

I literally chose finance over M&A because it would be more predictable. The work is more boring and my exit opps are probably slightly worse, but man the predictability is nice.

Same, but there's still quite a bit of unpredictability. Not as bad as M&A though.

Just how unpredictible is M&A?

[Right2BearArms]

I literally chose finance over M&A because it would be more predictable. The work is more boring and my exit opps are probably slightly worse, but man the predictability is nice.

Same, but there's still quite a bit of unpredictability. Not as bad as M&A though.

Just how unpredictible is M&A?

Depends on the type of M&A and industry. Public M&A can be a horse race. Private M&A can be slower paced, though not always. Industry and client also matter. I work in oil & gas primarily, so a lot of the people at our big, institutional clients dont really work nights or weekends (land and accounting departments). Smaller, PE backed companies are more 24/7.

Things also (generally) get better as you are more senior, if for no reason other than you know what to expect / understand what deadlines are real or realistic (does no good if everyone insists on being unreasonable with their expectations).

Overall, biglaw is generally unpredictable. If a client calls Thursday night or Friday morning with a deal (be it an M&A deal, public offering, finance/RBL matter) that they want done or launched on Monday, the partners aren't going to tell them "no", regardless of what that means for everyone's weekend.

[Anonymous User]

I literally chose finance over M&A because it would be more predictable. The work is more boring and my exit opps are probably slightly worse, but man the predictability is nice.

What finance practice are you in? I'm in banking and have 0% predictability - literally un-invited (the same group of) people from dinner three weekends in a row because of papers and as a rule wait until half an hour before the agreed time to confirm dinner plans / buy movie tickets etc...

[uncle_rico]

I’m sure my answer will change but as a junior capm associate in this insane market, I have to say total hours worked. My schedule is actually super predictable in that I can expect to have zero free time ever and will be working extremely long hours every day….

[jotarokujo]

I’m sure my answer will change but as a junior capm associate in this insane market, I have to say total hours worked. My schedule is actually super predictable in that I can expect to have zero free time ever and will be working extremely long hours every day….

damn that sounds unsustainable. that sounds like you can't even make plans at all, at least on week days, just from sheer number of hours worked, so you don't have the problem of having to cancel plans. yeah that makes sense then that total hours would be worse for you

[Anonymous User]

V100 first year litigation associate here—the unpredictability is absolutely the worst part. In terms of hours worked, I usually bill between 6-9 hours a day, which I feel is pretty reasonable. However, I absolutely cannot stand how little control I have over when I bill those hours. I’ve been practicing since last October and have already had to cancel on an out-of-town wedding, leave one in-town wedding early, miss a family reunion, etc. because the more senior associates decided it was a good idea to start on the responsive pleadings THE FRIDAY BEFORE THE MONDAY THEY WERE DUE. I do not yet have a steady stream of work, so I always send out emails looking for work. They could easily assign me these pleadings weeks before they are due, but they never do. I get most of my work from the senior associate who is the worst about this, so I am weary about bringing it up with a partner, but if it continues to happen I don’t think I have a choice.

[Mullens]

Would be interested to hear from someone who voted for total hours and their argument why that is worse (and what practice group they’re in) since I can’t imagine total hours being worse than unpredictability.

[Anonymous User]

Would be interested to hear from someone who voted for total hours and their argument why that is worse (and what practice group they’re in) since I can’t imagine total hours being worse than unpredictability.

For me, I've kind of put my foot down on emergency shit, which is a luxury you have when you have consistent work and don't give a fuck if you get fired. But I still need to meet deadlines and the volume of work to get there sucks.

But I hear you, and would change my vote if my circumstances were different. I definitely recall a time when I billed under 100 hours in a month, but it was miserable because it was all rush to get a TRO in, then sit on your hands all day waiting for the opposition (and not billing any hours because there would be no way to work on any other work when the opposition came in), and then rush to get a reply on file and to prepare for the hearing (and then not billing hours while waiting for an order because there would be no way to work on any other work when the order came in), and then rush to appeal the adverse order, etc. It was probably the worst month I had in my career and was super demoralizing because my hours didn't reflect it.

[Anonymous User]

Would be interested to hear from someone who voted for total hours and their argument why that is worse (and what practice group they’re in) since I can’t imagine total hours being worse than unpredictability.

I am admittedly a boring homebody, so the unpredictability isn't as bad for me, relatively speaking. The endless grind nature of the job is a lot worse.

[veers]

Would be interested to hear from someone who voted for total hours and their argument why that is worse (and what practice group they’re in) since I can’t imagine total hours being worse than unpredictability.

Not sure I understand? Wouldn't 200 unpredictable hours obviously be better than 350 miserably predictable hours?

[jotarokujo]

Would be interested to hear from someone who voted for total hours and their argument why that is worse (and what practice group they’re in) since I can’t imagine total hours being worse than unpredictability.

Not sure I understand? Wouldn't 200 unpredictable hours obviously be better than 350 miserably predictable hours?

not if the 200 hours still occur during the times you would be able to go out anyways, and the 350 does not prevent you from going out

though the concepts of "hours are at a bad time" and unpredictability are separable, i think we are mostly glomming them together for this poll

[veers]

Would be interested to hear from someone who voted for total hours and their argument why that is worse (and what practice group they’re in) since I can’t imagine total hours being worse than unpredictability.

Not sure I understand? Wouldn't 200 unpredictable hours obviously be better than 350 miserably predictable hours?

not if the 200 hours still occur during the times you would be able to go out anyways, and the 350 does not prevent you from going out

though the concepts of "hours are at a bad time" and unpredictability are separable, i think we are mostly glomming them together for this poll

Do you really go out when billing 350 hours a month? Most people spend any non-working time sleeping, eating or talking about how miserable their life is and how they need a better job. Eventually ragequitting happens.

Hard to see how 200 hours a month can be much worse, even if at annoying times.

[Anonymous User]

Would be interested to hear from someone who voted for total hours and their argument why that is worse (and what practice group they’re in) since I can’t imagine total hours being worse than unpredictability.

In lit specializing in a type of litigation with a very predictable schedule that is (usually) set at a casual pace. As a result I almost always know when my Fridays or Weekends are going to be bad. Most weeks I could even squeeze in a weeknight social meet-up if I planned right (not that I usually actually do that). At worst I'll have a heavy month of depositions or like summary judgment briefing is coming up in a case and maybe things get more unpredictable but there is always a light at the end of the tunnel.

So ultimately the fact that billing forty hours in a week is slow and I assume going into most weeks I'll be billing 50-60 hours is much more painful than the unpredictability.

[Ultramar vistas]

Don’t think I’m saying anything new here, but while 200 unpredictable hours is materially more awful than 200 hours worked between 8am and 6pm on weekdays only, there can be something awfully crushing and relentless about sitting down at 8am in the morning and knowing you have 12 hours of stuff to get through, even if it’s predictable.

On the other hand, there have been times when the unpredictable work was a little bit lighter (say, a 160 hour month) that it almost feels like an acceptable trade off that yes, you had to bring your laptop to dinner and be that guy, but you also went for 3 long walks on Tuesday, did your grocery shopping at the quietest time, napped for a couple hours at 3pm, then had to work a few hours at night with an NBA game playing in the background.

So look, not saying unpredictable is good, just saying that there is a trade off somewhere in the middle, where I would rather have 160 oddly distributed hours than 235 predictable ones.

[Anonymous User]

Lit midlevel that just went to trial. I would have voted predictability before, but billing 400 hours in 3 weeks is the worst thing I’ve had to do in the profession. Absolutely worse than the unpredictability.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Would be interested to hear from someone who voted for total hours and their argument why that is worse (and what practice group they’re in) since I can’t imagine total hours being worse than unpredictability.

A lot of my free time is spent on the Internet anyway, so downtime in the office doesn't feel like a loss. All else equal, I would rather do 1800 hours heavy on nights and weekends than 2200 all sunrise to sunset.

I've moved a lot of drinks with friends or movies or dates around when I could. I only really fought for something like a party or concert where it's either that night or it's not happening. Word of advice: asking for permission makes you more comfortable in the short term, but just doing it and asking for forgiveness later is better for your long-term well-being.

Also, I feel like this thread isn't really distinguishing between lack of predictability and lack of control. They're not the same thing. As you get more senior many more things will come to your attention during "off hours" but you'll have much more latitude to decide whether they can wait, or to delegate them.

[jotarokujo]

Would be interested to hear from someone who voted for total hours and their argument why that is worse (and what practice group they’re in) since I can’t imagine total hours being worse than unpredictability.

A lot of my free time is spent on the Internet anyway, so downtime in the office doesn't feel like a loss. All else equal, I would rather do 1800 hours heavy on nights and weekends than 2200 all sunrise to sunset.

I've moved a lot of drinks with friends or movies or dates around when I could. I only really fought for something like a party or concert where it's either that night or it's not happening. Word of advice: asking for permission makes you more comfortable in the short term, but just doing it and asking for forgiveness later is better for your long-term well-being.

Also, I feel like this thread isn't really distinguishing between lack of predictability and lack of control. They're not the same thing. As you get more senior many more things will come to your attention during "off hours" but you'll have much more latitude to decide whether they can wait, or to delegate them.

do you just bring your personal computer or do you do everything on the work computer?