Speculate on KE wfh policy Forum

[umichman]

Anybody know what ke is doing about return to office? Any speculation or anecdotes if not?

[Anonymous User]

New remote hire. So hopefully never

[umichman]

So you were hired on to be fully remote?

[Ultramar vistas]

Anybody know what ke is doing about return to office? Any speculation or anecdotes if not?

Their policy has always been zero required FaceTime, just do whatever your team wants. I can’t see that changing, I just expect that sometime before first years arrive in September, they’ll make various low key pushes to get us back into the office a few days a week, but we have been expressly told that if we want to make our career a fully remote one that’s up to us, if not actually recommended for maximum development.

[umichman]

Interesting . Haven’t heard that. Which office/group is that?

[Anonymous User]

received a few calls from recruiters for K&E positions that were 100% remote. I'm a 6th year M&A associate in a secondary market but position would have been for the Chicago office. They said there is 100% no expectation of ever relocating, though coming to the office occasionally (like one or twice every few months) might occur. I have to imagine partnership prospects aren't as great if you're 100% remote, either.

Money would have been good but if I'm leaving my current firm it's to go in house rather than another sweatshop.

[Anonymous User]

Interesting . Haven’t heard that. Which office/group is that?

In group at KE (think a corporate specialist like tax, exec comp, benefits), this is how it has been for years. Before the pandemic, people still showed up a couple of days a week and some people always showed up, but face time just isn't a thing. Some of our senior associates have said on calls/zooms with equity partners in the group that they never intend to return, and they've been met with either implicit or explicit approval. I have my problems with KE, but it's probably the least face time heavy firm around in terms of general culture, even if it doesn't have some formal full-time remote positions like Goodwin (or wherever).

[Anonymous User]

Interesting . Haven’t heard that. Which office/group is that?

In group at KE (think a corporate specialist like tax, exec comp, benefits), this is how it has been for years. Before the pandemic, people still showed up a couple of days a week and some people always showed up, but face time just isn't a thing. Some of our senior associates have said on calls/zooms with equity partners in the group that they never intend to return, and they've been met with either implicit or explicit approval. I have my problems with KE, but it's probably the least face time heavy firm around in terms of general culture, even if it doesn't have some formal full-time remote positions like Goodwin (or wherever).

K&E does have formal full-time remote positions also though. Similar to the post above, I know a couple of people who have lateralled there for full remote positions in states where they don't have offices. I've personally been reached out to for a full remote position for their SF office with no face time or requirement to be barred in CA.

[Anonymous User]

KE just sent a firmwide email on this. Return to office Sept. 7 (day after Labor Day). Still welcome to work from home using your judgment, we’ve never been a facetime firm, etc. The usual language that sounds good but really puts the onus on the associate to figure out what’s expected of him or her. I expect if juniors stay out of the office more than a couple days a week into October, they’ll get a talking to.

[Ultramar vistas]

I expect if juniors stay out of the office more than a couple days a week into October, they’ll get a talking to.

Team and office dependent, and doubt any one will get a “talking to”. Pre-pandemic, there were a bunch of people who had work from home habits that the more annoying partners seemed to take issue with, and the outcome was absolutely nothing

[Anonymous User]

I expect if juniors stay out of the office more than a couple days a week into October, they’ll get a talking to.

Team and office dependent, and doubt any one will get a “talking to”. Pre-pandemic, there were a bunch of people who had work from home habits that the more annoying partners seemed to take issue with, and the outcome was absolutely nothing

I expect the firm will be more on top of this in Q4 than it ever was pre-pandemic. There will be some sort of informal nudging of associates who are thought to have insufficiently fulfilled the “use your judgment but get back in here” requirement. There’s little doubt in my mind that they will be monitoring card swipes and associates who are especially low will find their way on a list by, like, November.

[Ultramar vistas]

I expect if juniors stay out of the office more than a couple days a week into October, they’ll get a talking to.

Team and office dependent, and doubt any one will get a “talking to”. Pre-pandemic, there were a bunch of people who had work from home habits that the more annoying partners seemed to take issue with, and the outcome was absolutely nothing

I expect the firm will be more on top of this in Q4 than it ever was pre-pandemic. There will be some sort of informal nudging of associates who are thought to have insufficiently fulfilled the “use your judgment but get back in here” requirement. There’s little doubt in my mind that they will be monitoring card swipes and associates who are especially low will find their way on a list by, like, November.

Honestly I doubt they’ve precisely planned their response to slow adaptors, but it probably depends on whether the whole office is slow to come back, or if they’re getting the general vibes that they want in the office and don’t feel the need to pull any strings.

But regardless, you say “end up on a list” like it matters. I’m sure I’ve been on several lists during my time, but at the end of the day if you’re doing good work and partners would prefer not to have to replace you, you can show up in pajamas every day and just deal with the disapproval. Know your worth.

Of course, if you totally suck, you should probably not draw attention to yourself.

[Anonymous User]

KE just sent a firmwide email on this. Return to office Sept. 7 (day after Labor Day). Still welcome to work from home using your judgment, we’ve never been a facetime firm, etc. The usual language that sounds good but really puts the onus on the associate to figure out what’s expected of him or her. I expect if juniors stay out of the office more than a couple days a week into October, they’ll get a talking to.

Anything about requiring proof of vax?

[Anonymous User]

Former KE associate here. WFH was never an issue pre pandemic in my corporate group in NY office. Don't think the partners cared where you billed 2,750 hours.

[Anonymous User]

Former KE associate here. WFH was never an issue pre pandemic in my corporate group in NY office. Don't think the partners cared where you billed 2,750 hours.

[Anonymous User]

If the firm didn’t care, then they wouldn’t have sent this email. Clearly the firm “cares.” I’m sure plenty of partners don’t though. But I expect there will be some soft enforcement, even if it is just “Hey why aren’t you coming in more?”

[Anonymous User]

KE just sent a firmwide email on this. Return to office Sept. 7 (day after Labor Day). Still welcome to work from home using your judgment, we’ve never been a facetime firm, etc. The usual language that sounds good but really puts the onus on the associate to figure out what’s expected of him or her. I expect if juniors stay out of the office more than a couple days a week into October, they’ll get a talking to.

Anything about requiring proof of vax?

No, but the email said they would follow up with more details later.

[Anonymous User]

If the firm didn’t care, then they wouldn’t have sent this email. Clearly the firm “cares.” I’m sure plenty of partners don’t though. But I expect there will be some soft enforcement, even if it is just “Hey why aren’t you coming in more?”

I think the email is an indicate that some share partners care. You have to remember that part of the chairman's job (all of it?) is playing politics. He needs to set up a situation where share partners who care can tell their folks to come in and those who don't can tell their folks to WFH as much as they want. If he says everyone can WFH whenever they want, you're going to have some pissed of share partners who are big on face time. I think this email is catering to like 20% of share partners and the other 80% probably don't give a fuck or want you in like 1-2 days a week at most. Both the 20% and 80% are happy with this email, and that's kind of the goal. He probably knows the reality is that many associates will continue to work from home more and be happier with it and that however offputting this messaging is to them it'll disappate when people go back and realize they still have a lot of liberty to WFH whenever.

[Anonymous User]

I think the email is an indicate that some share partners care. You have to remember that part of the chairman's job (all of it?) is playing politics. He needs to set up a situation where share partners who care can tell their folks to come in and those who don't can tell their folks to WFH as much as they want. If he says everyone can WFH whenever they want, you're going to have some pissed of share partners who are big on face time.

Anon because I work at K&E. This post nails it. K&E is not a firm. It's a collection of share partners. There is extremely minimal top-level management and there is no firm culture. There are group cultures, and sub-group and sub-sub-group cultures. Going forward there will be a category of K&E associates who are expected to be in the office 5 days a week. There will a significantly larger category who are never expected to be in the office at all. The majority will be somewhere in the middle.

[Ultramar vistas]

I think the email is an indicate that some share partners care. You have to remember that part of the chairman's job (all of it?) is playing politics. He needs to set up a situation where share partners who care can tell their folks to come in and those who don't can tell their folks to WFH as much as they want. If he says everyone can WFH whenever they want, you're going to have some pissed of share partners who are big on face time.

K&E is not a firm. It's a collection of share partners.

So… it’s a firm then.

As to the rest of your post - as I said above, I don’t think the consequences for working from home will actually be negative for people who are (a) above second year; (b) good at their jobs; and (c) work for partners that are not themselves obsessive about being in the office, but I think they’ll focus hard on the new 1st years and juniors to try and reset the office culture back to one of mostly working in the office, and the main change from pre-pandemic is that people will feel much more confident about working from home on fridays or mondays or whatever.

But I’d bet that by Christmas, 85% of the office is back to a 3 or 4 day week as standard.

[Anonymous User]

I’m a midlevel (litigator) who likes WFH and I think my approach at first will be to go in on 2 fixed, specific days of the week as well as any other where I have a reason to be in (meetings, whatever). I expect that will get me around a 3 day/week average. But that may change if some partners decide to switch calls to in-person meetings when they have no reason not to be calls.

[bajablast]

I think the email is an indicate that some share partners care. You have to remember that part of the chairman's job (all of it?) is playing politics. He needs to set up a situation where share partners who care can tell their folks to come in and those who don't can tell their folks to WFH as much as they want. If he says everyone can WFH whenever they want, you're going to have some pissed of share partners who are big on face time.

K&E is not a firm. It's a collection of share partners.

So… it’s a firm then.

Not the anon poster but calling you out for your disingenuous comment. Anon clearly was referring to firm culture/identity with that comment (as you can tell by the next sentence they write, which of course you deleted).

[Ultramar vistas]

I think the email is an indicate that some share partners care. You have to remember that part of the chairman's job (all of it?) is playing politics. He needs to set up a situation where share partners who care can tell their folks to come in and those who don't can tell their folks to WFH as much as they want. If he says everyone can WFH whenever they want, you're going to have some pissed of share partners who are big on face time.

K&E is not a firm. It's a collection of share partners.

So… it’s a firm then.

I am the anon poster, calling you out for your hilarious comment. Anon clearly was confused about firm culture/identity with that comment (as you can tell by the period before the next sentence they wrote, which of course you deleted out of brevity and wit).

Appreciate the support; there’s an art to selective quotation.

[bajablast]

I think the email is an indicate that some share partners care. You have to remember that part of the chairman's job (all of it?) is playing politics. He needs to set up a situation where share partners who care can tell their folks to come in and those who don't can tell their folks to WFH as much as they want. If he says everyone can WFH whenever they want, you're going to have some pissed of share partners who are big on face time.

K&E is not a firm. It's a collection of share partners.

So… it’s a firm then.

Not the anon poster but calling you out for your disingenuous comment. Anon clearly was referring to firm culture/identity with that comment (as you can tell by the next sentence they write, which of course you deleted)

Appreciate the support; there’s an art to selective quotation.

Not an art, just fraudulent.

[Anonymous User]

As to the rest of your post - as I said above, I don’t think the consequences for working from home will actually be negative for people who are (a) above second year; (b) good at their jobs; and (c) work for partners that are not themselves obsessive about being in the office, but I think they’ll focus hard on the new 1st years and juniors to try and reset the office culture back to one of mostly working in the office, and the main change from pre-pandemic is that people will feel much more confident about working from home on fridays or mondays or whatever.

But I’d bet that by Christmas, 85% of the office is back to a 3 or 4 day week as standard.

I'm the anon you quoted. Your reply illustrates the point I was trying to make. You say "reset" the culture "back" to "mostly working in the office". In some teams, in some offices, that wasn't the culture pre-covid. Similarly, 85% of people working 3-4 days in the office would, for some teams, in some offices, mean that by Christmas 2021 people will be in the office more frequently than they were pre-covid. I'm sure what you say is true for your office and/or group, but you can't generalize these things at K&E.