Giving Notice - Best Approach?

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Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:28 am

Hey folks - I would really like your input on what is the best way to give notice and what people usually say when giving notice. I'm assuming its a phone call with a follow up email? Also, do you all notify your clients you're leaving or does the firm take care of that for you?

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Lesion of Doom » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:44 am

From what I've observed it's an email to the partners in the group, followed (or preceded) by emails/texts/IMs to certain colleagues. Don't think you need to do anything with clients. Hugs & kisses email to a broader group of internal colleagues happens on your last day.

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:58 pm

OP here, thanks! What do most people say in their email? (Do people call their Partners too since were remote and can’t do in person meetings?)

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Dcc617

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Dcc617 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:18 pm

You can call if you want? When I quit, I called one partner and one associate who I had worked with a lot and liked. Everyone else got an email saying I was leaving and offering assistance in onboarding whoever was replacing me.

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:39 pm

Oh wow I didnt realize email was acceptable (or the norm?) for this? I've called every partner and senior associate in the past (or met in person if they were in/available), which often takes most of the day, sometimes more than 1.

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:20 pm

OP here - This is helpful! I wasn't aware you can just do emails either. Any insight on what to say other than the obvious "I'm leaving". Like if they ask "why" or "where you're going to", etc.? Do you thank them even if it is one of the Partners you don't like working with?

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Definitely Not North

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Definitely Not North » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:01 am

Gonna disagree and say you should almost certainly call (or at least IM) everyone you had any significant relationship with. Pretty cold to just fire off some form e-mail letting them know. Lower threshold for your Farewell email on your last day, that one you can blast off to everyone whose name rings a bell (including the people you called)

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:07 am

Definitely Not North wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:01 am
Gonna disagree and say you should almost certainly call (or at least IM) everyone you had any significant relationship with. Pretty cold to just fire off some form e-mail letting them know. Lower threshold for your Farewell email on your last day, that one you can blast off to everyone whose name rings a bell (including the people you called)
This might come down to personality. I was happy to tell everyone who I was friendly with that I was leaving, and it didn't feel awkward to me, but I guess it comes down to team culture and such. I had a zoom meeting with the partner I was closest to about giving notice. HR was in touch with me within the hour and random partners were e-mailing, so clearly the first one just blasted off an e-mail to the corporate partners to let them know. Maybe it's all just a case of "it's not awkward if you don't let it be awkward."

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:31 am

Definitely Not North wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:01 am
Gonna disagree and say you should almost certainly call (or at least IM) everyone you had any significant relationship with. Pretty cold to just fire off some form e-mail letting them know. Lower threshold for your Farewell email on your last day, that one you can blast off to everyone whose name rings a bell (including the people you called)
OP here - What do you say in your calls?

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by nixy » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:26 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:07 am
Definitely Not North wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:01 am
Gonna disagree and say you should almost certainly call (or at least IM) everyone you had any significant relationship with. Pretty cold to just fire off some form e-mail letting them know. Lower threshold for your Farewell email on your last day, that one you can blast off to everyone whose name rings a bell (including the people you called)
This might come down to personality. I was happy to tell everyone who I was friendly with that I was leaving, and it didn't feel awkward to me, but I guess it comes down to team culture and such. I had a zoom meeting with the partner I was closest to about giving notice. HR was in touch with me within the hour and random partners were e-mailing, so clearly the first one just blasted off an e-mail to the corporate partners to let them know. Maybe it's all just a case of "it's not awkward if you don't let it be awkward."
But you had a zoom meeting first with the partner you were closest to. This sounds exactly like what Definitely Not North was suggesting. I agree that you should call your practice group head and/or whoever you work with most - once one person knows you may not have to tell anyone else, but phone is best, since presumably you can’t do in-person right now.

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Definitely Not North » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:31 am
Definitely Not North wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:01 am
Gonna disagree and say you should almost certainly call (or at least IM) everyone you had any significant relationship with. Pretty cold to just fire off some form e-mail letting them know. Lower threshold for your Farewell email on your last day, that one you can blast off to everyone whose name rings a bell (including the people you called)
OP here - What do you say in your calls?
That you’re leaving to do X, you’ve really enjoyed working with them and will miss doing so (even if not true), they’ll generally be excited (or pretend to be, if you leaving is going to result in more work for them) and ask questions about what you’re headed to do. It’s usually a really nice conversation that you both will remember. I’ve been on the receiving end of a lot of them and all but one (where i was getting screwed) was a really nice conversation. One guy didn’t do the rounds and a number of people were pretty miffed (particularly partners). Never had anyone try to just shoot me an email—and if they did I would probably pick up the phone and call them as soon as I read it anyway.

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by CanadianWolf » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:31 am

How much advance notice is given ?

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by thenewguy » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:38 am

I've done this twice. My move was to send an email to the partners I was closest with and ask if they had a few minutes to chat. Then I would tell them over the phone. I would then send an email to HR after that. Then a mixture of calls/emails for everyone else I cared enough to tell.

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:08 pm

Definitely Not North wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:55 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:31 am
Definitely Not North wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:01 am
Gonna disagree and say you should almost certainly call (or at least IM) everyone you had any significant relationship with. Pretty cold to just fire off some form e-mail letting them know. Lower threshold for your Farewell email on your last day, that one you can blast off to everyone whose name rings a bell (including the people you called)
OP here - What do you say in your calls?
That you’re leaving to do X, you’ve really enjoyed working with them and will miss doing so (even if not true), they’ll generally be excited (or pretend to be, if you leaving is going to result in more work for them) and ask questions about what you’re headed to do. It’s usually a really nice conversation that you both will remember. I’ve been on the receiving end of a lot of them and all but one (where i was getting screwed) was a really nice conversation. One guy didn’t do the rounds and a number of people were pretty miffed (particularly partners). Never had anyone try to just shoot me an email—and if they did I would probably pick up the phone and call them as soon as I read it anyway.
OP here - Thank you! If they ask you why you decided to leave or where you are going, how is that best handled? Obviously, the why you are leaving can't be the real reason I imagine as that would turn the conversation sour.

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Definitely Not North

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Definitely Not North » Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:11 pm

They probably won't ask why, it's biglaw they know what's up. You can just tell them where you're going -- that's just normal human conversation and the literal basis for the interaction.

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Lesion of Doom » Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:18 pm

Definitely Not North wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:55 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:31 am
Definitely Not North wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:01 am
Gonna disagree and say you should almost certainly call (or at least IM) everyone you had any significant relationship with. Pretty cold to just fire off some form e-mail letting them know. Lower threshold for your Farewell email on your last day, that one you can blast off to everyone whose name rings a bell (including the people you called)
OP here - What do you say in your calls?
That you’re leaving to do X, you’ve really enjoyed working with them and will miss doing so (even if not true), they’ll generally be excited (or pretend to be, if you leaving is going to result in more work for them) and ask questions about what you’re headed to do. It’s usually a really nice conversation that you both will remember. I’ve been on the receiving end of a lot of them and all but one (where i was getting screwed) was a really nice conversation. One guy didn’t do the rounds and a number of people were pretty miffed (particularly partners). Never had anyone try to just shoot me an email—and if they did I would probably pick up the phone and call them as soon as I read it anyway.
All due respect, I can't think of why someone should care if partners are miffed. In a secondary market, sure, but you're disposable in NYC and they let you know that every day. They don't call us before ruining our weekends with a Friday afternoon email, so I wouldn't feel compelled to extend them any greater courtesy.

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by OutoftheWoods » Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:43 pm

In normal times you would actually meet face-to-face with these people, so imo video calls to the closest partners to you is the way to go (or phone call if you are truly afraid to do that). As an above poster said, it's like a half-a-day process but it's worth it because you don't want to burn bridges. Just email/IM them asking if they have time to talk about X case and other things and take it from there (the X case discussion will be anything you actually have to discuss plus giving notice and offering your help with onboarding new associate(s)). Yeah it's awkward but you'll get a lot of respect doing it as close to face-to-face as possible. Definitely save the emails for those who you don't really have close relationships with. This worked for me in the pandemic quite well, I think, and I believe the partners responded very well.

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by nixy » Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:53 pm

Lesion of Doom wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:18 pm
All due respect, I can't think of why someone should care if partners are miffed. In a secondary market, sure, but you're disposable in NYC and they let you know that every day. They don't call us before ruining our weekends with a Friday afternoon email, so I wouldn't feel compelled to extend them any greater courtesy.
1) the OP didn't say they're in NYC, and
2) the point isn't to be courteous to partners, it's to stay on good terms in case you need the connection some day.

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:27 pm

OutoftheWoods wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:43 pm
In normal times you would actually meet face-to-face with these people, so imo video calls to the closest partners to you is the way to go (or phone call if you are truly afraid to do that). As an above poster said, it's like a half-a-day process but it's worth it because you don't want to burn bridges. Just email/IM them asking if they have time to talk about X case and other things and take it from there (the X case discussion will be anything you actually have to discuss plus giving notice and offering your help with onboarding new associate(s)). Yeah it's awkward but you'll get a lot of respect doing it as close to face-to-face as possible. Definitely save the emails for those who you don't really have close relationships with. This worked for me in the pandemic quite well, I think, and I believe the partners responded very well.
Scheduling a video call to give notice entirely unnecessary, even to the partners you're closest with. A simple cold call will suffice in the virtual environment to partners and any associates you've worked with recently. You can choose whether you want to IM or call any friends or support staff. Then you send a farewell email on you last day that includes all of the above + anyone else you think would be interested in hearing about your departure. For example, I included a few partners here that I didn't call because they weren't in my homeroomed group/we hadn't worked together in 2+ years.

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Definitely Not North » Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:37 pm

Yeah not a Zoom call lol, just pick up the phone. I know we’re all maladjusted but I don’t think this is super hard

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Lesion of Doom » Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:48 pm

nixy wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:53 pm
Lesion of Doom wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:18 pm
All due respect, I can't think of why someone should care if partners are miffed. In a secondary market, sure, but you're disposable in NYC and they let you know that every day. They don't call us before ruining our weekends with a Friday afternoon email, so I wouldn't feel compelled to extend them any greater courtesy.
1) the OP didn't say they're in NYC, and
2) the point isn't to be courteous to partners, it's to stay on good terms in case you need the connection some day.
I didn't quote OP, I quoted DNN (who appears to be speaking generally).

I question the value in these calls for any future connection. Quitting via email is fine and you can follow up individually as desired. There's no need to make it a bigger deal than it is. If it's a senior associate, then okay, but most associates obviously leave prior to that point. To each their own.

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by nixy » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:45 pm

Lesion of Doom wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:48 pm
nixy wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:53 pm
Lesion of Doom wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:18 pm
All due respect, I can't think of why someone should care if partners are miffed. In a secondary market, sure, but you're disposable in NYC and they let you know that every day. They don't call us before ruining our weekends with a Friday afternoon email, so I wouldn't feel compelled to extend them any greater courtesy.
1) the OP didn't say they're in NYC, and
2) the point isn't to be courteous to partners, it's to stay on good terms in case you need the connection some day.
I didn't quote OP, I quoted DNN (who appears to be speaking generally).

I question the value in these calls for any future connection. Quitting via email is fine and you can follow up individually as desired. There's no need to make it a bigger deal than it is. If it's a senior associate, then okay, but most associates obviously leave prior to that point. To each their own.
I mean, the calls may not further cement any future connections, but if a partner is miffed, it could hurt future connections. Someone who thinks an email is fine isn't going to be offended by a call, but someone who thinks you should call might be peeved by just an email.

Obviously know your own office (maybe your office culture is such that only email is fine) and your own level of giving a fuck (you may not care either way, which is totally fine), and I don't think it's remotely the end of the world to buck convention on this. But since the OP asked, every time this subject comes up, consensus is to reach out at least to the superior(s) you're most close to in person first.

(You say you've seen emails to the partners in the group - would you even know if that person had reached out to one/some of them by phone first?)

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:51 pm

A twist. What if you’re a first year leaving before a year is up? With remote starts, it’s plausible to have formed no real connections with anyone

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Sackboy » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:51 pm
A twist. What if you’re a first year leaving before a year is up? With remote starts, it’s plausible to have formed no real connections with anyone
You should at least call the chair of your group or, if it's a very large group and the chair doesn't know who you are/you haven't worked with them, then probably the equity partner you've worked with the most.

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Re: Giving Notice - Best Approach?

Post by Lesion of Doom » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:21 pm

nixy wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:45 pm

I mean, the calls may not further cement any future connections, but if a partner is miffed, it could hurt future connections. Someone who thinks an email is fine isn't going to be offended by a call, but someone who thinks you should call might be peeved by just an email.

Obviously know your own office (maybe your office culture is such that only email is fine) and your own level of giving a fuck (you may not care either way, which is totally fine), and I don't think it's remotely the end of the world to buck convention on this. But since the OP asked, every time this subject comes up, consensus is to reach out at least to the superior(s) you're most close to in person first.

(You say you've seen emails to the partners in the group - would you even know if that person had reached out to one/some of them by phone first?)
I agree with all of this.

A close friend at work told me on 1/1 this year that he was quitting and that he was going to circulate an email to the group's partners to let them know. It didn't strike me as strange, but he also left the law altogether and is now bartending ... so pretty clearly he didn't give a fuck whatsoever about any potential consequences.

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