Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

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Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:21 pm

If a lawyer is individually ranked in Chambers or Legal 500, how legitimate is that? I have always been under the impression that lawyer rankings were just popularity contests or something to where you could game the system and wanted a sanity check.

LBJ's Hair

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by LBJ's Hair » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:30 pm

nah, Chambers is pretty legit (as legit as these things go)

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Bosque

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by Bosque » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:39 pm

The more important question is, who cares?

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by MrTooToo » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:35 pm

Chambers is legitimate. Beyond that, there are a few extremely prestigious trial lawyer associations which if I cared more I'd research and list, but I know they exist and for those who know being placed on them is quite meaningful--akin to a Chambers Band 1 / Star / Statesman ranking.

Most of the other stuff is just garbage. All the "Who's Who Under 40" and "Alabama Top 500" and all that other crap is just marketing puffery and often reflects a campaign by firm x or firm y to get more recognition for their attorneys for biz dev. Smart people in-house realize this and same with people in biglaw who have experience.

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by MrTooToo » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:44 pm

Bosque wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:39 pm
The more important question is, who cares?
In-house counsel who have to make hiring decisions for major matters. Being on a Chambers list opens doors I've seen this first-hand.

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AntipodeanPhil

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by AntipodeanPhil » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:13 pm

I've been at three firms now and, for each firm, the Chambers-ranked lawyers were indeed the lawyers with the best reputations / bringing in the most business to the firm (at least from what I could tell from the inside).

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by Sackboy » Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:08 pm

AntipodeanPhil wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:13 pm
I've been at three firms now and, for each firm, the Chambers-ranked lawyers were indeed the lawyers with the best reputations / bringing in the most business to the firm (at least from what I could tell from the inside).
Yep. At my firm, the Chambers rated lawyers are all equity partners or folks who are seen as superstars. If I see someone in rated in the Chambers guide, they get instant respect from me.

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:00 pm

I feel like 99% of the Chambers ranked attorneys at my firm are equity partner. I just got ranked as an income partner. Any chance I can use this as leverage with my firm? Or will they just tell me to eat shit?

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:54 pm

The only issue with Chambers is that it can be hard to lose your spot once you get it. I've seen attorneys ranked multiple years in a row even after they essentially stopped practicing. Other than that, it seems legit.

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by Sackboy » Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:54 pm
The only issue with Chambers is that it can be hard to lose your spot once you get it. I've seen attorneys ranked multiple years in a row even after they essentially stopped practicing. Other than that, it seems legit.
I think this is why they created the "Statesman" category or whatever it's called. It's basically Chambers emeritus.

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:54 am

[Anon to avoid anyone connecting the dots on this story]
MrTooToo wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:35 pm
Most of the other stuff is just garbage. All the "Who's Who Under 40" and "Alabama Top 500" and all that other crap is just marketing puffery and often reflects a campaign by firm x or firm y to get more recognition for their attorneys for biz dev. Smart people in-house realize this and same with people in biglaw who have experience.
I saw a particularly ridiculous example of this from a classmate. We are both class of 2019 and both at V20 firms. In 2020, this person posted on social media about receiving some kind of "Best Attorney" award from an organization I'd never heard of. It was not at all clear what the criteria were, but there was absolutely no way that they didn't submit their own name for consideration.

I still wonder if their firm knew about the award and/or had any reaction. I thought it was a pretty bad look for anyone who knew that this was a first-year associate who could not possibly have done anything to merit recognition.

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by jarofsoup » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:58 am

A lot of the super lawyers I have dealt with aren’t super. They suck.

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by AureliusCapital » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:19 am

How can you see the rankings? Quickly browsing their site and not finding them.

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by CanadianWolf » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:25 am

jarofsoup wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:58 am
A lot of the super lawyers I have dealt with aren’t super. They suck.
Super lawyers is a joke.

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by Sackboy » Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:36 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:25 am
jarofsoup wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:58 am
A lot of the super lawyers I have dealt with aren’t super. They suck.
Super lawyers is a joke.
I think super lawyers is pay to play (or not far off). It indeed sucks. Chambers is legit.
AureliusCapital wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:19 am
How can you see the rankings? Quickly browsing their site and not finding them.
Go to a firm's profile on Chambers and then click on the tab "ranked lawyers".

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by AureliusCapital » Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:18 pm

Sackboy wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:36 pm
CanadianWolf wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:25 am
jarofsoup wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:58 am
A lot of the super lawyers I have dealt with aren’t super. They suck.
Super lawyers is a joke.
I think super lawyers is pay to play (or not far off). It indeed sucks. Chambers is legit.
AureliusCapital wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:19 am
How can you see the rankings? Quickly browsing their site and not finding them.
Go to a firm's profile on Chambers and then click on the tab "ranked lawyers".
Thanks! How do associates get ranked here? I see a 4th year from my firm and wonder if its a client initiative or the partners.

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:39 pm

AureliusCapital wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:18 pm
Sackboy wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:36 pm
CanadianWolf wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:25 am
jarofsoup wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:58 am
A lot of the super lawyers I have dealt with aren’t super. They suck.
Super lawyers is a joke.
I think super lawyers is pay to play (or not far off). It indeed sucks. Chambers is legit.
AureliusCapital wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:19 am
How can you see the rankings? Quickly browsing their site and not finding them.
Go to a firm's profile on Chambers and then click on the tab "ranked lawyers".
Thanks! How do associates get ranked here? I see a 4th year from my firm and wonder if its a client initiative or the partners.
The associate I know who is ranked works alongside a partner who’s been ranked for like a decade plus. I think clients just add them to the rankings if given an associate option because they know the name now. He’s not some superstar or anything. I don’t know how seriously we can take the associate rankings. But maybe I just think that because I’m salty.

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Re: Legitimacy of individual lawyer rankings

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:33 pm

MrTooToo wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:44 pm
Bosque wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:39 pm
The more important question is, who cares?
In-house counsel who have to make hiring decisions for major matters. Being on a Chambers list opens doors I've seen this first-hand.
I guess it could be a useful start. I recall that in law school I thought it had an impressive level of detail, and I'm sure it still does. Nowadays, I think something like a ranking magazine is only going to take you so far and it's certainly going to leave out some real all-stars that you would want to talk to who don't promote themselves that way.

I hire firms for my company (around a dozen thus far) and I have never once considered looking at Chambers or any other ranking. In fact, I would be inclined to steer clear of serial LinkedIn posters because I find the shameless self-promotion annoying; I ask myself are you in this for you or for me? (As an aside, the best attorney I have hired isn't even on LinkedIn). I worked at several firms before going in house for around a decade, so I have a bit of familiarity with which ones tend to be good. For my larger matters, my process includes researching attorneys at those firms, talking to trusted advisors, and then interviewing 3-4 of the top contenders. So, basically, I think I'd rather get a few recommendations from some people I trust and then vet those persons or firms against one or two I identify on my own than rely on a ranking that I have no connection to.

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