NY to 200k?! Forum

[TigerIsBack]

Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.

It's right on the top of the page.

In what world is asking if Skadden counsel is equivalent to a Kirkland non-share "sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc."?

Did you also get mad in 4th grade when some kid was chewing gum against school policy and never got caught by the teacher? Who cares, just let people post anon and you can continue to take the high ground and ridicule them as you see fit. Maybe even start a committee for it.

Who cares. Let's just get back to hoping CravaTTTh has some semblance of self-respect left and pushes the new scale to a real number like $225k in order for me to start referring to the new scale with their name at the front of it. Until then, Milbank for V1.

[Definitely Not North]

Wow who cares about anon abuse it could not matter less than chilling discussion by outing people

[Yardbird]

Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.

It's right on the top of the page.

In what world is asking if Skadden counsel is equivalent to a Kirkland non-share "sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc."?

Did you also get mad in 4th grade when some kid was chewing gum against school policy and never got caught by the teacher? Who cares, just let people post anon and you can continue to take the high ground and ridicule them as you see fit. Maybe even start a committee for it.

Who cares. Let's just get back to hoping CravaTTTh has some semblance of self-respect left and pushes the new scale to a real number like $225k in order for me to start referring to the new scale with their name at the front of it. Until then, Milbank for V1.

Recruiter emails already referencing it as Cravath/Milbank scale - no love for DPW lol.

I doubt any firm will raise again for juniors, there’s really no incentive to. It’s possible a firm may reraise mid levels and seniors since those are the in demand folks and the raise is justified by the value they bring. If the Skadden bonus rumors are true, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are limited to 3rd/4th year and up (and maybe even then, only specific associates will get them).

[Anonymous User]

People are forgetting that there was INSANE pessimism about the legal profession back in 2011-2014. Nobody wanted to go to law school. Graduating class sizes for 2015-2018 were cut at the most prestigious law schools, including Columbia and NYU, which are traditional feeders into V10 NYC. These salary increases are a reflection of the absurdly tight legal market and very finite number of qualified midlevel associates.

This will not be happening in another seven years due to bloated class sizes at law schools. Berkeley Law graduating well over 350 people? Oof. Duke Law overenrolled? Double oof.

The entire problem is the supply of midlevels, coupled with unrestrained quantitative easing and a general downtrend in interest rates stimulating arguably non-productive economic activity.

[NoLongerALurker]

The weirdest guy in my law school class had an Excel sheet that he had assembled, by combing through our "XYZ Law Class of 20XX" thread, of everyone's TLS username associated with their real name. So I will post anon in perpetuity and welcome the forum's newly relaxed approach toward letting us do whatever we want with identifying ourselves.

I once posted something that was traceable to me as anon in one of these salary/bonus threads, then a mod de-anon'ed me because in my comment I said "My friend just told me xyz", and the mods position was "Well, anon protects you, not what your friends say, so you have no right to be anon."

So of course my friend saw it and immediately knew my TLS username and all my past posts accordingly

Maybe just me being salty in that experience, but I think the level of anon-threshold for salary/bonus threads should be very relaxed and only in the most anon-abuse circumstances should it a poster be de-anon'ed. Literally the only thing these threads are good for is the fact that people all come and post anonymous stuff -- why chill that?

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Not that anon is some sort of hallowed sanctuary but anons have a higher incidence of being net negative posters and the mods let threads like these get larded up with low-value anon ramblings lest they scare off someone who absolutely needs anon to announce a forthcoming match so no one will know he works at Lowenstein Sandler.

You all want to turn this place into Reddit so badly. At least your bullshit would (hopefully) get buried there.

[NoLongerALurker]

Not to derail too much, but I'm curious how much the "need to login to see posts" approach that exists now (but didn't exist a few years ago) alleviates fears around like a random HR person or whatever coming upon a post. Like maybe the anon argument is marginally weaker given that.

But that's all off track. More importantly: Until retention bonus announcement (if any), SkaTTTen is irrelevant and now we all wait for CravaTTTh to prove it's Cravath again.

[Auxilio]

You all want to turn this place into Reddit so badly. At least your bullshit would (hopefully) get buried there.

Honestly, TLS turning into Reddit would be amazing so that all the random tangents could be easily ignored. Reddit sucks at threads that last more than a day though.

[peperharow]

Ropes have got their Town Hall meeting today so I'd be amazed if it's not raised there. They should match this week.

[cavalier1138]

Not that anon is some sort of hallowed sanctuary but anons have a higher incidence of being net negative posters and the mods let threads like these get larded up with low-value anon ramblings lest they scare off someone who absolutely needs anon to announce a forthcoming match so no one will know he works at Lowenstein Sandler.

You all want to turn this place into Reddit so badly. At least your bullshit would (hopefully) get buried there.

As people may have noticed from the (horrifically inaccurate) discussion above about "outing" concerns, we are largely only moderating anon posts that are used for harassment or abuse. I'd strongly urge people using anon to only post their not-at-all-personally-identifying opinions to consider just posting normally, but that's about all I can do under our current guidelines.

[2013]

Does anyone know when vault is being released? Is it this week or are they going to do September again? Maybe if cravath’s grip on #1 decreases, it’ll go way over the top.

[Anonymous User]

So is this Skadden thing dead? Anyone hear anything else from their sources? Partner meeting is today I think so maybe news drops afterwards? As an overworked senior, $50k + retention would be very nice to carry me through the end of the year.

[Anonymous User]

Is anyone else annoyed by the Amlaw article this morning about staff calling the salary bumps a “slap in the face” etc. etc.?

Really must suck making six figures or close to it for a M-F 930-530, not checking emails outside that window, and not having any concept of “need this now/plz handle.” Oh, and you see us complain about the 401(k) matches/profit sharing plans not available to us all the time, don’t you?

[cornerstone]

Does anyone know when vault is being released? Is it this week or are they going to do September again? Maybe if cravath’s grip on #1 decreases, it’ll go way over the top.

Last year they announced late in September, but 2020 was announced June 19th, 2019 on June 20th, and 2018 on June 21st. I don't have any insider intel, but based on those numbers I would say end of this week or early next week. Or September. Who knows.

[ExpOriental]

Is anyone else annoyed by the Amlaw article this morning about staff calling the salary bumps a “slap in the face” etc. etc.?

Really must suck making six figures or close to it for a M-F 930-530, not checking emails outside that window, and not having any concept of “need this now/plz handle.” Oh, and you see us complain about the 401(k) matches/profit sharing plans not available to us all the time, don’t you?

They specifically chose that dumb comment as the headline for clickbait purposes.

The actual article has a much more reasonable takes, notably the one that recognizes the dynamics that are causing the raises.

Other points:

-Plenty of staff don't make close to six figures

-Plenty of staff work well over 9-5

-Talking like staff should be happy with what they're getting and shouldn't complain is a bad look

Is it really so annoying that amlaw was able to gin up one bitter person to pull the crab in a bucket act? Frankly, based on your tone here it sounds like you're right in the bucket next to them.

[Anonymous User]

Is anyone else annoyed by the Amlaw article this morning about staff calling the salary bumps a “slap in the face” etc. etc.?

Really must suck making six figures or close to it for a M-F 930-530, not checking emails outside that window, and not having any concept of “need this now/plz handle.” Oh, and you see us complain about the 401(k) matches/profit sharing plans not available to us all the time, don’t you?

They specifically chose that dumb comment as the headline for clickbait purposes.

The actual article has a much more reasonable takes, notably the one that recognizes the dynamics that are causing the raises.

Other points:

-Plenty of staff don't make close to six figures

-Plenty of staff work well over 9-5

-Talking like staff should be happy with what they're getting and shouldn't complain is a bad look

Is it really so annoying that amlaw was able to gin up one bitter person to pull the crab in a bucket act? Frankly, based on your tone here it sounds like you're right in the bucket next to them.

Okay, some fair points, but I think regardless there has to be high pay to compensate for our lifestyle.

Also, it might just be the staff I work with, but I see many asking for OT approval when they’re getting close to the end of the 8 hour workday, and there is often a certain lack of urgency to getting things done – I’m not knocking them for this either, it’s a different job.

Didn’t mean to come off like a crab in a bucket, sorry. Just a bit burnt out and I have to admit that a low stress, more typical lifestyle job has its temptation. But I get it, I’m getting what I signed up for and I am still blessed to make more money than most.

Thank you for the reality check.

[rgn122000]

Is anyone else annoyed by the Amlaw article this morning about staff calling the salary bumps a “slap in the face” etc. etc.?

Really must suck making six figures or close to it for a M-F 930-530, not checking emails outside that window, and not having any concept of “need this now/plz handle.” Oh, and you see us complain about the 401(k) matches/profit sharing plans not available to us all the time, don’t you?

They specifically chose that dumb comment as the headline for clickbait purposes.

The actual article has a much more reasonable takes, notably the one that recognizes the dynamics that are causing the raises.

Other points:

-Plenty of staff don't make close to six figures

-Plenty of staff work well over 9-5

-Talking like staff should be happy with what they're getting and shouldn't complain is a bad look

Is it really so annoying that amlaw was able to gin up one bitter person to pull the crab in a bucket act? Frankly, based on your tone here it sounds like you're right in the bucket next to them.

Okay, some fair points, but I think regardless there has to be high pay to compensate for our lifestyle.

Also, it might just be the staff I work with, but I see many asking for OT approval when they’re getting close to the end of the 8 hour workday, and there is often a certain lack of urgency to getting things done – I’m not knocking them for this either, it’s a different job.

Didn’t mean to come off like a crab in a bucket, sorry. Just a bit burnt out and I have to admit that a low stress, more typical lifestyle job has its temptation. But I get it, I’m getting what I signed up for and I am still blessed to make more money than most.

Thank you for the reality check.

This is a refreshing reaction-good on you anon.

[TigerIsBack]

The weirdest guy in my law school class had an Excel sheet that he had assembled, by combing through our "XYZ Law Class of 20XX" thread, of everyone's TLS username associated with their real name. So I will post anon in perpetuity and welcome the forum's newly relaxed approach toward letting us do whatever we want with identifying ourselves.

I once posted something that was traceable to me as anon in one of these salary/bonus threads, then a mod de-anon'ed me because in my comment I said "My friend just told me xyz", and the mods position was "Well, anon protects you, not what your friends say, so you have no right to be anon."

So of course my friend saw it and immediately knew my TLS username and all my past posts accordingly

Maybe just me being salty in that experience, but I think the level of anon-threshold for salary/bonus threads should be very relaxed and only in the most anon-abuse circumstances should it a poster be de-anon'ed. Literally the only thing these threads are good for is the fact that people all come and post anonymous stuff -- why chill that?

Yep that was exactly the thread I was thinking of and I remember you being outed around the same time as my post in that thread.

[AureliusCapital]

Is anyone else annoyed by the Amlaw article this morning about staff calling the salary bumps a “slap in the face” etc. etc.?

Really must suck making six figures or close to it for a M-F 930-530, not checking emails outside that window, and not having any concept of “need this now/plz handle.” Oh, and you see us complain about the 401(k) matches/profit sharing plans not available to us all the time, don’t you?

OT: How does one get access to Amlaw articles? I am always limited to one article a month. Feel free to email, dont want to derail further.

On-topic: Are any firms truing up for the year?

[Anonymous User]

I doubt any firm will raise again for juniors, there’s really no incentive to. It’s possible a firm may reraise mid levels and seniors since those are the in demand folks and the raise is justified by the value they bring. If the Skadden bonus rumors are true, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are limited to 3rd/4th year and up (and maybe even then, only specific associates will get them).

This is what I'm crossing my fingers for. I very much doubt anyone goes over the top on 1st and 2nd years, but 3rd and up has a shot at someone going over the top another 10k per year or so.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Is anyone else annoyed by the Amlaw article this morning about staff calling the salary bumps a “slap in the face” etc. etc.?

Really must suck making six figures or close to it for a M-F 930-530, not checking emails outside that window, and not having any concept of “need this now/plz handle.” Oh, and you see us complain about the 401(k) matches/profit sharing plans not available to us all the time, don’t you?

If you want to take a 70%+ pay cut and become a paralegal, I'm sure you could do that.

Staff probably *should* make more. They're without a doubt more useful than the median junior. Can tell you from experience that bad paralegals winding up costing more than good ones.

[1styearlateral]

Is counsel viewed as a potential stepping stone to equity partnership (equivalent of a Kirkland non-share partner) or is it viewed as a side-track / off-ramp for those who are no longer in the running for equity?

The amount of people using anonymous feature to ask innocent shit (like but not limited to the post I'm quoting) or make silly remarks that have no personally identifiable information (unlike the post I'm quoting) is mind-boggling. Are people literally afraid to have an opinion?

To answer the question about whether counsel is a dead-end, there is no universal answer. Some firms promote counsel to partner. My V10 does. But some counsel spend decades as such at my firm too.

As someone who also likes to shit on folks for using anon for almost literally every post, I +1 this. Wish the mods were more diligent with de-anoning.

As for Skadden, Counsel is basically a non-equity partner position, and you'll see a lot of folks sit at Counsel for 2-3 years and get promoted to Partner (Skadden is a single tiered partnership).

On the anon commentary, as someone who has shared inside info here before and will do so more during comp. wars / bonus rounds, being able to generally participate in a discussion anonymously when it relates to comp / promotion / strategy / marketing topics is a big relief.

Right, because the public would be able to uncover your true identity based on an abstract username.

I think it is more that the public maybe able to identify a poster based on his/her post history... not based on his/her username, at least there is a fear that that is a possibility whether real or not.

I don't really get why certain users seem to obsess over the anon "abuse". People shouldn't hide behind anonymity to harass others/troll and otherwise be obnoxious but I don't see how asking legit questions (however silly) or sharing info (whether they are objectively identifiable or not) are considered an abuse of the anon feature. Feels like more harm than good would be done to de-anon those.

Apologize for continuing the tirade that is derailing the topic of this thread, but if users just utilize the anon feature when a post contains personally-identifying information, and the regular post feature for all other posts, I don't see how anyone could link the two. My observation is people abuse the anon feature to inject wild remarks/opinions into otherwise thoughtful and constructive discussion because the thought of someone criticizing them, even at the abstract and already anonymous level, is just too much to bear. I guess that's indicative of the types of personalities the law attracts, which is ironic given all of us advocate (and ideally, confidently) for our clients in one way or another.

[doublefocus4]

Is anyone else annoyed by the Amlaw article this morning about staff calling the salary bumps a “slap in the face” etc. etc.?

Really must suck making six figures or close to it for a M-F 930-530, not checking emails outside that window, and not having any concept of “need this now/plz handle.” Oh, and you see us complain about the 401(k) matches/profit sharing plans not available to us all the time, don’t you?

They specifically chose that dumb comment as the headline for clickbait purposes.

The actual article has a much more reasonable takes, notably the one that recognizes the dynamics that are causing the raises.

Other points:

-Plenty of staff don't make close to six figures

-Plenty of staff work well over 9-5

-Talking like staff should be happy with what they're getting and shouldn't complain is a bad look

Is it really so annoying that amlaw was able to gin up one bitter person to pull the crab in a bucket act? Frankly, based on your tone here it sounds like you're right in the bucket next to them.

Okay, some fair points, but I think regardless there has to be high pay to compensate for our lifestyle.

Also, it might just be the staff I work with, but I see many asking for OT approval when they’re getting close to the end of the 8 hour workday, and there is often a certain lack of urgency to getting things done – I’m not knocking them for this either, it’s a different job.

Didn’t mean to come off like a crab in a bucket, sorry. Just a bit burnt out and I have to admit that a low stress, more typical lifestyle job has its temptation. But I get it, I’m getting what I signed up for and I am still blessed to make more money than most.

Thank you for the reality check.

This is a really admirable response...

[NYto200K]

How long does it take to hear back from McDermott for an interview/ding?

Should I be worried my V10 knows I'm lateraling because they took too long to match, if they'll match at all? And will S&C really remain in the V10 for long when it's pressuring its associates return to the office next month?

[peperharow]

Ropes match confirmed.