1st years - after 6 months, how much longer do you want to stay in biglaw? Forum

[Rookielawyer22]

First years - how much longer do you want to stay in biglaw?

[Anonymous User]

I don’t mind it so far, but hours haven’t been too bad. I also already have a clerkship lined up. That said, I think public interest, government, or a small solo appellate practice (is that even a thing?) would be more interesting. I think the whole billable-hour way of doing business is a fundamental flaw and at odds with enjoying the practice of law. Money doesn’t interest me that much beyond sustenance.

[Anonymous User]

I went in thinking I’d do 2 years, but I’ve been very pleasantly surprised so far. The hours aren’t too bad outside of closings, and my group is really reasonable and tries to respect my nights and weekends. My issue is going into the office every day. If I can WFH 2-3 days a week, I could do this for 4-5 years, maybe more. If I have to go in 5 days a week, I will likely leave after 2 years.

[Anonymous User]

I've been enjoying work, despite the long hours. I'm getting a ton of experience as a first year (lit, on a case with a partner that trusts me way too much relative to my experience). If WFH was somewhat available going forward, I think I could last until midlevel or beyond.

However, I've avoided moving to my office's high COL city so I'm saving a boatload on rent. When that changes, especially if I need to go in five days a week, I'll almost certainly be counting down the days until I can justify lateraling to a firm back in the city I'm in now. My partner and I are not early/mid 20s like most of my peers and so a small apartment near the party scene isn't what I want—downsizing from our current 1400sqft place to something less than half of that for the same price is going to suck.

[Anonymous User]

I’m in corp and hate it more than I ever could have imagined (and I certainly did not expect to enjoy it) and want out as soon as humanly possible, even if it means leaving the law.

[AntipodeanPhil]

Would be interesting to break this down by practice area. I'm going to bet that a much higher percentage of capital markets and M&A associates are thinking about leaving soon than, e.g., lit.

[Anonymous User]

I don’t mind it so far, but hours haven’t been too bad. I also already have a clerkship lined up. That said, I think public interest, government, or a small solo appellate practice (is that even a thing?) would be more interesting. I think the whole billable-hour way of doing business is a fundamental flaw and at odds with enjoying the practice of law. Money doesn’t interest me that much beyond sustenance.

Not to derail the thread, but I worked for a solo appellate lawyer my 1L and it seemed like a great lifestyle. Mostly just basic personal injury/products liability stuff and the lawyer I worked for had worked for a well-known PI firm in town before opening his own shop.

[Anonymous User]

I don’t mind it so far, but hours haven’t been too bad. I also already have a clerkship lined up. That said, I think public interest, government, or a small solo appellate practice (is that even a thing?) would be more interesting. I think the whole billable-hour way of doing business is a fundamental flaw and at odds with enjoying the practice of law. Money doesn’t interest me that much beyond sustenance.

Not to derail the thread, but I worked for a solo appellate lawyer my 1L and it seemed like a great lifestyle. Mostly just basic personal injury/products liability stuff and the lawyer I worked for had worked for a well-known PI firm in town before opening his own shop.

Small appellate, or general civil lit practices with a good amount of appeals, are a thing but like everything appellate it's easier outside of major markets

[Anonymous User]

Would be interesting to break this down by practice area. I'm going to bet that a much higher percentage of capital markets and M&A associates are thinking about leaving soon than, e.g., lit.

Litigation definitely seems to operate at a different and sustainable pace. I'm a corporate associate who had to be on a few litigation calls recently and at the end of each call everyone stayed on the phone for like ten to twenty minutes extra just hanging out, shooting the breeze. All I wanted to do was get to hang up to address my impending deadline-heavy work. In corporate, calls tend to end within five minutes of projected end times because a good chunk of people have to hop from one call to next.

It was pretty shocking how not-stressed the litigators sounded. It would be interesting to see how a poll of just corporate first years looks.

[Anonymous User]

Would be interesting to break this down by practice area. I'm going to bet that a much higher percentage of capital markets and M&A associates are thinking about leaving soon than, e.g., lit.

Agreed - I'm a different transactional practice that ends up doing a lot of support work for M&A/CapM and it has been awful. People at my firm said it's not so bad except for closings, so that was my expectation going in, but I feel like I'm never not on a closing...

[TLSReturntoWork]

I've gone from wanting to make partner at all costs to being content to be debt free, with $250K saved, then leaving to have a normal work schedule. So at the rate I'm going I could be gone as soon as year five EOY bonus hits.

[Anonymous User]

A few of my buddies and I (at a V5) are planning to stay until the clawback period ends for bar prep/moving costs/tech stipend and then we're bouncing asap. Already started looking at job postings and am pinging friends in midlaw, etc.

[Anonymous User]

Current M&A first year at one the NYC firms with a seemingly limitless amount of SPAC work. I don't mind the work itself, but the volume, inability to disconnect ever, insane lack of work life separation and lower expenses of WFH/ working too much to have a personal life have me considering leaving soon after my year end bonus hits if I can find anything. I came in hoping to make it 3-5 years, but that seems naïve in hindsight.

[Anonymous User]

Current first year that is lateraling. Do it while the market is hot

[Anonymous User]

A few of my buddies and I (at a V5) are planning to stay until the clawback period ends for bar prep/moving costs/tech stipend and then we're bouncing asap. Already started looking at job postings and am pinging friends in midlaw, etc.

Anon because considering something similar. I realize this is probably a stupid question but where do you find your clawback period? There's nothing in my offer letter and I don't think I signed anything with the firm around bar prep and stipend payments—am I free or is there somewhere else I should be looking?

[Anonymous User]

Current first year that is lateraling. Do it while the market is hot

Very interested in doing the same (hoping to switch markets). How did lateraling work for you as a first year? What practice area(s)/market(s)? Did you go through a recruiter or through networking or a cold app? Also what led you to make the jump? Did you get a signing bonus?

[Anonymous User]

A few of my buddies and I (at a V5) are planning to stay until the clawback period ends for bar prep/moving costs/tech stipend and then we're bouncing asap. Already started looking at job postings and am pinging friends in midlaw, etc.

Anon because considering something similar. I realize this is probably a stupid question but where do you find your clawback period? There's nothing in my offer letter and I don't think I signed anything with the firm around bar prep and stipend payments—am I free or is there somewhere else I should be looking?

Hm good question. It sounds like it depends on the firm, but at ours we were told explicitly by one of the coordinators (our clawback period is 1 year). I don't recall if we were ever given written material on it.

[Anonymous User]

I think ya'll giving your firms too much credit. I was going to bounce from my firm and no one batted an eye regarding clawing back my clerkship bonus, which is presumably more than a tech stipend lol.

[AntipodeanPhil]

My last firm (a V10) included the (12 month) clawback period in the offer letter and would usually enforce it for the summer stipend and moving costs, though I recall one instance in which the person was close to the end of the period and they didn't enforce it. From what I was told, they would also generally ignore it if they fired the associate or pushed him/her out. There was a clawback for the tech stipends (cell phone, laptop) in documents they had us sign when we used those stipends, but they would only enforce a clawback for those in egregious circumstances (e.g., one associate bought a new laptop and cell phone less than one month before announcing he was leaving for K&E; they made him pay back every dollar).

[Anonymous User]

Current first year that is lateraling. Do it while the market is hot

Very interested in doing the same (hoping to switch markets). How did lateraling work for you as a first year? What practice area(s)/market(s)? Did you go through a recruiter or through networking or a cold app? Also what led you to make the jump? Did you get a signing bonus?

No signing bonus. I don't think many firms are doing that for first years. Corporate law. I used a recruiter, although they weren't super helpful. Would recommend cold emailing partners at firms before using recruiter. I switched markets. Making the jump to get to desired geography, and because I wasn't in love with my current firm.

[Anonymous User]

Current first year that is lateraling. Do it while the market is hot

Very interested in doing the same (hoping to switch markets). How did lateraling work for you as a first year? What practice area(s)/market(s)? Did you go through a recruiter or through networking or a cold app? Also what led you to make the jump? Did you get a signing bonus?

No signing bonus. I don't think many firms are doing that for first years. Corporate law. I used a recruiter, although they weren't super helpful. Would recommend cold emailing partners at firms before using recruiter. I switched markets. Making the jump to get to desired geography, and because I wasn't in love with my current firm.

Did you need references and, if so, who did you use? I've done good work at my current firm, but I imagine they won't be enthused about me leaving within a year.

When you say you used a recruiter but they weren't helpful, did you get your job through the recruiter or through another avenue? If through another avenue, did the recruiter at least get you interviews?

[nealric]

I ended up leaving biglaw after 3 years for an in-house opportunity, but I don't think I really had a defined amount of time that I wanted to stay after 6 months. My basic conclusion was that it wasn't terrible, and I even enjoyed many aspects, but I wasn't sure it was something I wanted for the rest of my career. I liked the general environment, problem solving, the variety of work, and most of the people. Ultimately, I went in house because I had an opportunity to get out of the constant on-call lifestyle. Coming in at 9 and not knowing if I'd be leaving at 7PM or past midnight got old fast. It was one thing to do it as a 25 year old, but it would be miserable as a 35 year old with two small kids.

My take on partnership was always wait and see how things develop. Someone 6 months in really doesn't have any idea how realistic partnership is for them. All you can really do as a junior is try to do good work, learn skills, and make contacts. Doing those things will benefit you no matter what you end up doing long-term.

[Summerheightshigh]

Not really in for a set time period per se but would like to stay until my loans are paid off and I hit FIRE.

[Anonymous User]

I'm at a V5 in corporate and will bill around 300 hours this month. I came in thinking I would do 3-5 years and then go in-house, but now I feel incredibly stupid for ever thinking I could handle this job for that long. I thought I knew what I was walking into, but evidently I didn't. I don't understand how people survive in this job for years and years.

My "ideal" plan to stay 4 or 5 years and pay off my loans and save some money is still the same I guess, but I don't see how I make it even 2 or 3 years. Even more true if I am going to be forced back into the office. I will stay until at least the end of the year, but I've already begun looking to leave and if this doesn't get better soon or I find something I will be thrilled to just leave asap, even if that means a few extra years to pay off my loans.

[nealric]

I'm at a V5 in corporate and will bill around 300 hours this month. I came in thinking I would do 3-5 years and then go in-house, but now I feel incredibly stupid for ever thinking I could handle this job for that long. I thought I knew what I was walking into, but evidently I didn't. I don't understand how people survive in this job for years and years.

My "ideal" plan to stay 4 or 5 years and pay off my loans and save some money is still the same I guess, but I don't see how I make it even 2 or 3 years. Even more true if I am going to be forced back into the office. I will stay until at least the end of the year, but I've already begun looking to leave and if this doesn't get better soon or I find something I will be thrilled to just leave asap, even if that means a few extra years to pay off my loans.

300 hour months on a regular basis is extreme even by Biglaw standards. But v5 corporate is pretty much the worst of the worst in terms of Biglaw hours. You may find that a "lesser" firm is much more tolerable.