B4 JD/LLM Salary Progression Forum

[ndskhjsdabnsjhk]

Starting at a B4 - 115/5 in a smaller market (think Atlanta size/COL). Wondering if you all could offer some data points for what the salary progression looks like. I've read that JD/LLM's get worse raises due to salary compression. But anyways, if you all stayed at a B4 for any amount of time, I'd appreciate you sharing how your salary progressed through the years.

Thanks!

[CanadianWolf]

Broadly speaking, Big 4 salary increases & bonuses tend to be small for the first several years. Could be something like $5,000 raise & $5,000 bonus each year for first few years.

Nevertheless, starting at $115,00 and $5,000 is not bad for a small, presumably Southeastern US market. Philadelphia, for example, is a larger market that pays lower, while San Francisco has a much higher cost of living and can pay a bit lower (last year positions in SF seemed to be starting at $105,000 according to published ads for those with one year experience).

Lots of folks move to another firm after a few years in order to get a decent pay bump.

What is your specialty area ? M&A ? International ? SALT ? Or ?

Were you asked to commit informally for a certain number of years ?

[notinbiglaw]

It really varies a lot by performance and office. It tends to be more compressed for the first few years but about theee years in, two as a senior, the stars start to stand out as legitimate manager candidates (some even make manager in 2 as senior) and at that point you can get serious pay bumps, especially in M&A or Int Tax. It’s not unusual for seniors in M&A to be making close to 200k.

Even before that, sometimes you can do really well by switching firms. I know one person who graduated 2019 that’s leaving his current firm in two months (after his sign in bonus fully vests) for a 20k+ pay bump to 150k. He started at 125 two years ago and was really pissed about COVID induced salary compression last year. If you trawl the LinkedIn profiles a bit, you will find a lot of senior managers that switched jobs every two or three years. I know one personally that was 2 years one firm as junior staff, two years as senior staff, then two years as manager at first firm, then senior manager at second firm.

B4 is super incestuous. People know who’s good and will pay accordingly.

You will not catch up to big law counterparts, at least not without making partner and being a rainmaker.

If you really after pay, then honestly you should try to do as much law firm like work (memos, due diligence, and so on) as possible and lateral to a law firm. I know people who did that too. Some as first year associates and some even got full two year credit for B4 experience.

[ndskhjsdabnsjhk]

Broadly speaking, Big 4 salary increases & bonuses tend to be small for the first several years. Could be something like $5,000 raise & $5,000 bonus each year for first few years.

Nevertheless, starting at $115,00 and $5,000 is not bad for a small, presumably Southeastern US market. Philadelphia, for example, is a larger market that pays lower, while San Francisco has a much higher cost of living and can pay a bit lower (last year positions in SF seemed to be starting at $105,000 according to published ads for those with one year experience).

Lots of folks move to another firm after a few years in order to get a decent pay bump.

What is your specialty area ? M&A ? International ? SALT ? Or ?

Were you asked to commit informally for a certain number of years ?

Yeah, you have it right. I am in a SE market. International. Was not asked to commit for any length of time.

[ndskhjsdabnsjhk]

It really varies a lot by performance and office. It tends to be more compressed for the first few years but about theee years in, two as a senior, the stars start to stand out as legitimate manager candidates (some even make manager in 2 as senior) and at that point you can get serious pay bumps, especially in M&A or Int Tax. It’s not unusual for seniors in M&A to be making close to 200k.

Even before that, sometimes you can do really well by switching firms. I know one person who graduated 2019 that’s leaving his current firm in two months (after his sign in bonus fully vests) for a 20k+ pay bump to 150k. He started at 125 two years ago and was really pissed about COVID induced salary compression last year. If you trawl the LinkedIn profiles a bit, you will find a lot of senior managers that switched jobs every two or three years. I know one personally that was 2 years one firm as junior staff, two years as senior staff, then two years as manager at first firm, then senior manager at second firm.

B4 is super incestuous. People know who’s good and will pay accordingly.

You will not catch up to big law counterparts, at least not without making partner and being a rainmaker.

If you really after pay, then honestly you should try to do as much law firm like work (memos, due diligence, and so on) as possible and lateral to a law firm. I know people who did that too. Some as first year associates and some even got full two year credit for B4 experience.

Thanks for the info. Do you mean managers in M&A making close to 200? I'm in International. My understanding is International is generally paid a little less than M&A, but not much.

[notinbiglaw]

Yes, new managers with JD/LLM tend to be between 150 and 200 as far as I know, at least for NYC.

One thing I do want to note. I actually know a couple of seniors who straight up said they didn't want to be managers (so they don't have to worry about an additional metric like revenues managed) and they are making right about 200k.

But I'm assuming they have to up or out at some point. I doubt the B4 is going to keep raising their salary without them stepping up into manager roles, whether they want to step up or not.

[CanadianWolf]

I know several who are content with remaining as Senior Managers as the salary band is broad. Do not want client duties / responsibilities that come with Director level positions.

Unlike another poster, do not know of any who refused promotion to Manager in order to remain as a Senior Associate. Not doubting other poster; just showing how different offices & experiences can be in Big 4 world.

Also, unaware of senior associates who make $200,000--must be a NYC thing.

OP: Yes, you are correct that International pays a bit less than M&A in most situations.

[Anonymous User]

OP: Yes, you are correct that International pays a bit less than M&A in most situations.

Is this true even in NYC or major markets? I was under the presumption International + M&A started with the same amount.

[Anon2468]

ITS and M&A start the same, but the raises in M&A are better. By the time you’re an M/SM the difference is pretty substantial from what I understand.

You’ll generally work a lot more in M&A though.

[CanadianWolf]

That may be accurate for some markets, but in others M&A starting pay is slightly higher than International.

Very high demand for M&A. Firms--both accounting and law--hate to turn down lucrative M&A work due to inability to handle the workload.