How feasible is LA biglaw for me? Forum

[haldren2198]

I'm an incoming 1L at Duke and I'm open to NYC, but I'm starting to think I'd rather be in LA long term. I'm from CA and went to UCLA for undergrad. I graduated a while back and have some work experience in California. Given my ties, is LA biglaw fairly realistic, or is it going to be an uphill battle?


Also, if this is my goal, how critical is spending 1L summer in California? I'm not eligible for any diversity SAs and I'll be living off the university's stipend for whatever job I end up getting next summer, so I was thinking it'd be better to get an internship in Durham and avoid paying double rent. I know it'll probably be important to network that summer, but I figure I could arrange phone conversations with LA associates and my ties to California might make me a strong candidate at OCI, even without extensive networking in LA.

[Anonymous User]

No one is necessarily a strong candidate for LA BigLaw because, other than a few firms headquartered here, the class sizes are small and tilt towards hiring for diversity. Basically, unless you are HYS and a POC you aren’t a strong candidates for LA BigLaw.

Everyone wants to practice in LA. Your Duke degree alone won’t guarantee you a chance at LA BigLaw, or even offer you a more-likely-than-not chance at it.

Of course, you will have a chance to land LA BigLaw—but more than anything it will depend on how you click with your interviewers. I’d suggest networking to increases your chances, at the least.

[Anonymous User]

As a counter point to that last poster, I attend a top 30 on the east coast, in the top half of my class. I am from LA but also did undergrad on the east coast. I worked my ass off networking and last summer I worked in LA and this coming summer I have SA at a v50 in LA. It’s possible, and I imagine my experience may have even been a bit easier from Duke. Just network your ass off. I recommend applying to jobs like the DA’s office, LA City Attorney, Santa Monica City Attorney, and Pasadena City Attorney. You want to work with people who probably worked in LA big law before working for local gov. I think from Duke with ties it’s very possible if you grind and do not count on OCI (most firms, from my experience, will only be interested in hiring for NY or maybe DC from your OCI). I also think your chances have improved now that firms are comfortable with virtual callbacks.

[Anonymous User]

As a counter point to that last poster, I attend a top 30 on the east coast, in the top half of my class. I am from LA but also did undergrad on the east coast. I worked my ass off networking and last summer I worked in LA and this coming summer I have SA at a v50 in LA. It’s possible, and I imagine my experience may have even been a bit easier from Duke. Just network your ass off. I recommend applying to jobs like the DA’s office, LA City Attorney, Santa Monica City Attorney, and Pasadena City Attorney. You want to work with people who probably worked in LA big law before working for local gov. I think from Duke with ties it’s very possible if you grind and do not count on OCI (most firms, from my experience, will only be interested in hiring for NY or maybe DC from your OCI). I also think your chances have improved now that firms are comfortable with virtual callbacks.

I would like to add that I am a straight white christian male, so I’m not bringing anything to the table as far as diversity goes

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if you’re into corporate at all but you should have a relatively easier time getting into BigLaw if you’re willing to do transactional, privacy, or licensing, and esp. emerging companies and venture capital.

[whats an updog]

It's harder than getting a job in NYC, but I don't think by much (if any at some places) in terms of GPA. I disagree that you need to be HYS/POC to be a strong candidate. It just takes showing that you are serious about it. It requires you do more legwork. If you plan to target LA (or anywhere west coast), you should be proactive, go back there for your 1L summer and network.

[Anonymous User]

It's harder than getting a job in NYC, but I don't think by much (if any at some places) in terms of GPA. I disagree that you need to be HYS/POC to be a strong candidate. It just takes showing that you are serious about it. It requires you do more legwork. If you plan to target LA (or anywhere west coast), you should be proactive, go back there for your 1L summer and network.

LA biglaw partner. This is all correct. I will say that Duke punches significantly under its weight in LA, which is one of the reasons it is so critical to be in LA that summer - it will be that much easier to get interviews, network, and show you’re serious about the market. Frankly I think that Bet Tzedek/ICLC/Public Counsel are just as effective as working at the DA or the City Attorney, especially since those organizations have some institutional ties to biglaw. Externing for a CD Cal judge is another good option.

Unlike NY or SF/SV, I don’t think being open to transactional work moves the needle all that much, and I don’t think there are materially more transactional openings than litigation openings. I do think that an interest in entertainment industry work (whether litigation or transactional) is a big help and at many firms is a non-negotiable.

[Anonymous User]

I had a similar-ish background and struck out in LA. From NorCal, went to USC/UCLA, then one of D/M/V. I had above median grades and struck out in LA. Had no issues getting offers in SF/SV or NYC. I spent my 1L summer not in SoCal and I think that might have hurt, but some of my other friends also had trouble in the LA market, the class sizes at market paying biglaw firms are just much smaller compared to the other markets.

[GoneSouth]

Going to UCLA undergrad is probably enough to check the geographical box for firms that care about that. Spending your 1L summer out here could help a bit, but I don’t think staying in Durham for the summer would hurt you that much—it’s easily explainable and Durham isn’t a market that competes with LA. Firms would be more concerned if you spent the summer in New York, which might signal some indecisiveness on where you want to end up.

The biggest thing will be grades. Summer classes are smaller here than NY, and I think you’d want to be above median to feel like you had a good shot at landing something. If your grades are just ok, I wouldn’t recommend going all-in on LA.

[Anonymous User]

I was around top 1/3 grade-wise at a lower T14. Ended up in LA biglaw after doing my 1L summer out there. No ties to LA or California whatsoever. Just have a convincing narrative of why you want to be there.

[Anonymous User]

You have to get your foot in the door earlier because you're competing with the rest of T14, and UCLA/USC. Network earlier and try to take the initiative pre-OCI.

A couple pieces of advice:

-Identify which firms have larger classes and hire for your preferred practice area. Use Chambers Associate, NALP, and Vault, which will tell you how many associates were hired and the practice areas that the firm hires for. Paul Hastings, Sheppard Mullin, Gibson, and Kirkland Ellis take relatively large classes (though, this list is not exhaustive).

-Use LinkedIn or career services data base to network with alumni, especially attorneys on hiring committees. Reach out to them for a call. When you schedule the call, forward your resume and say that you're attaching it because you want them to learn more about you. On the call, ask them good questions (What made you choose FIRM? What made you choose transactional/litigation? What makes candidates from Duke stand out at OCI? How did you choose your practice area? What is a day like a the firm? What was your summer like? What do you enjoy most about FIRM/practice area? If you could do the process over again, what would you different? What resources at Duke should I take advantage of?). When you finish the call, tell them that FIRM seems like a great place to work and ask if they would be willing to forward your resume to a recruiter. You can reach out to this contact later if you want to swing a screener. Since some calls will go great and others will not, just keep your head up and understand that it's a numbers game.

-Alternatively, attend in-person panels at Duke for firms and ask recruiters if they can forward your materials to LA or introduce you to LA attorneys. This may be important if Duke doesn't have a footprint in that office. At other events, if you meet Duke alumni, ask if they know classmates in LA.

-If things return in-person, then go to as many winter receptions during your break as possible. There is free food, and firms track attendance to measure your interest.

-Get involved with a Duke Law Alumni Club in Los Angeles.

-As mentioned above, try to work in Los Angeles. If OCI returns to in-person attendance, then there will be lots of networking and recruitment events in the LA area during your 1L summer. Federal judicial externships are pretty easy to apply for and look good on your resume.

-Have a back-up for your preferred location in case you don't get LA at first and want to transfer/lateral later. I would recommend targeting Duke alumni in the Bay Area because it's close and jobs are more abundant (some firms have huge classes, with upwards of 30-40 associates). Firms with a huge Bay Area presence include Cooley, WSGR, Goodwin, Gunderson, Fenwick, Morrison & Foerster.

[haldren2198]

It's harder than getting a job in NYC, but I don't think by much (if any at some places) in terms of GPA. I disagree that you need to be HYS/POC to be a strong candidate. It just takes showing that you are serious about it. It requires you do more legwork. If you plan to target LA (or anywhere west coast), you should be proactive, go back there for your 1L summer and network.

LA biglaw partner. This is all correct. I will say that Duke punches significantly under its weight in LA, which is one of the reasons it is so critical to be in LA that summer - it will be that much easier to get interviews, network, and show you’re serious about the market. Frankly I think that Bet Tzedek/ICLC/Public Counsel are just as effective as working at the DA or the City Attorney, especially since those organizations have some institutional ties to biglaw. Externing for a CD Cal judge is another good option.

Unlike NY or SF/SV, I don’t think being open to transactional work moves the needle all that much, and I don’t think there are materially more transactional openings than litigation openings. I do think that an interest in entertainment industry work (whether litigation or transactional) is a big help and at many firms is a non-negotiable.

Thanks for the response. I have a slight preference for litigation but am pretty open-minded in terms of practice areas, though I'd rather avoid M&A. I think externing for a CD judge would be very rewarding and I'd get a lot out of it, but I'd forego the summer PI funding from my school. If I'm in a situation where it's a PI 1L summer in Durham or my hometown (a few hours from LA) vs a CD externship in LA, do you think being in LA that summer is enough of a career advantage to justify it? I could pay for it but it would be somewhat financially strenuous.



I definitely plan to pursue as many PI summer jobs in LA as I can, but a lot of them (understandably) have a preference for fluent Spanish speakers.

[haldren2198]

You have to get your foot in the door earlier because you're competing with the rest of T14, and UCLA/USC. Network earlier and try to take the initiative pre-OCI.

A couple pieces of advice:

-Identify which firms have larger classes and hire for your preferred practice area. Use Chambers Associate, NALP, and Vault, which will tell you how many associates were hired and the practice areas that the firm hires for. Paul Hastings, Sheppard Mullin, Gibson, and Kirkland Ellis take relatively large classes (though, this list is not exhaustive).

-Use LinkedIn or career services data base to network with alumni, especially attorneys on hiring committees. Reach out to them for a call. When you schedule the call, forward your resume and say that you're attaching it because you want them to learn more about you. On the call, ask them good questions (What made you choose FIRM? What made you choose transactional/litigation? What makes candidates from Duke stand out at OCI? How did you choose your practice area? What is a day like a the firm? What was your summer like? What do you enjoy most about FIRM/practice area? If you could do the process over again, what would you different? What resources at Duke should I take advantage of?). When you finish the call, tell them that FIRM seems like a great place to work and ask if they would be willing to forward your resume to a recruiter. You can reach out to this contact later if you want to swing a screener. Since some calls will go great and others will not, just keep your head up and understand that it's a numbers game.

-Alternatively, attend in-person panels at Duke for firms and ask recruiters if they can forward your materials to LA or introduce you to LA attorneys. This may be important if Duke doesn't have a footprint in that office. At other events, if you meet Duke alumni, ask if they know classmates in LA.

-If things return in-person, then go to as many winter receptions during your break as possible. There is free food, and firms track attendance to measure your interest.

-Get involved with a Duke Law Alumni Club in Los Angeles.

-As mentioned above, try to work in Los Angeles. If OCI returns to in-person attendance, then there will be lots of networking and recruitment events in the LA area during your 1L summer. Federal judicial externships are pretty easy to apply for and look good on your resume.

-Have a back-up for your preferred location in case you don't get LA at first and want to transfer/lateral later. I would recommend targeting Duke alumni in the Bay Area because it's close and jobs are more abundant (some firms have huge classes, with upwards of 30-40 associates). Firms with a huge Bay Area presence include Cooley, WSGR, Goodwin, Gunderson, Fenwick, Morrison & Foerster.

Thanks so much for such a detailed response. How early would you recommend reaching out to partners/associates? I've seen December 1st as the date to start summer applications, but most of those references were a few years old and I'm not sure whether that's still the case. I had a brief conversation with a partner at a major LA firm at an undergrad networking event so I'm considering reaching out to him early in the fall semester to try to schedule a phone conversation.

[Anonymous User]

You have to get your foot in the door earlier because you're competing with the rest of T14, and UCLA/USC. Network earlier and try to take the initiative pre-OCI.

A couple pieces of advice:

-Identify which firms have larger classes and hire for your preferred practice area. Use Chambers Associate, NALP, and Vault, which will tell you how many associates were hired and the practice areas that the firm hires for. Paul Hastings, Sheppard Mullin, Gibson, and Kirkland Ellis take relatively large classes (though, this list is not exhaustive).

-Use LinkedIn or career services data base to network with alumni, especially attorneys on hiring committees. Reach out to them for a call. When you schedule the call, forward your resume and say that you're attaching it because you want them to learn more about you. On the call, ask them good questions (What made you choose FIRM? What made you choose transactional/litigation? What makes candidates from Duke stand out at OCI? How did you choose your practice area? What is a day like a the firm? What was your summer like? What do you enjoy most about FIRM/practice area? If you could do the process over again, what would you different? What resources at Duke should I take advantage of?). When you finish the call, tell them that FIRM seems like a great place to work and ask if they would be willing to forward your resume to a recruiter. You can reach out to this contact later if you want to swing a screener. Since some calls will go great and others will not, just keep your head up and understand that it's a numbers game.

-Alternatively, attend in-person panels at Duke for firms and ask recruiters if they can forward your materials to LA or introduce you to LA attorneys. This may be important if Duke doesn't have a footprint in that office. At other events, if you meet Duke alumni, ask if they know classmates in LA.

-If things return in-person, then go to as many winter receptions during your break as possible. There is free food, and firms track attendance to measure your interest.

-Get involved with a Duke Law Alumni Club in Los Angeles.

-As mentioned above, try to work in Los Angeles. If OCI returns to in-person attendance, then there will be lots of networking and recruitment events in the LA area during your 1L summer. Federal judicial externships are pretty easy to apply for and look good on your resume.

-Have a back-up for your preferred location in case you don't get LA at first and want to transfer/lateral later. I would recommend targeting Duke alumni in the Bay Area because it's close and jobs are more abundant (some firms have huge classes, with upwards of 30-40 associates). Firms with a huge Bay Area presence include Cooley, WSGR, Goodwin, Gunderson, Fenwick, Morrison & Foerster.

Thanks so much for such a detailed response. How early would you recommend reaching out to partners/associates? I've seen December 1st as the date to start summer applications, but most of those references were a few years old and I'm not sure whether that's still the case. I had a brief conversation with a partner at a major LA firm at an undergrad networking event so I'm considering reaching out to him early in the fall semester to try to schedule a phone conversation.

I would start reaching out after you get settled into your first semester. Maybe like week 3 or so. Try to schedule one or two calls a week until OCI. I'm not sure how OCI works at Duke, but I called alumni until I was comfortable with submitting firms for my top twenty bids.

It is still the case that December 1 is the start of summer applications because that is when federal judicial externships open up.

[Anonymous User]

I think externing for a CD judge would be very rewarding and I'd get a lot out of it, but I'd forego the summer PI funding from my school.

Judicial externships don't qualify for summer PI funding?? Jeez Duke, do better

[Anonymous User]

Anon because LA market is small.

If you are biglaw or bust I would recommend hedging your bets by bidding a large market like NY with LA so you don't strike out....because it is easy to strike out in LA. The summer classes are small. I would say it is critical to spend your summer in LA, especially now that we can start meeting people in-person. The summer classes are small - usually anywhere from 2-10. With that being said, partners have the flexibility of adding in an additional summer. You have significant ties, just network, network, network.

Also, general advice, don't listen to career services. Reach out and listen to Duke alums.

[haldren2198]

Anon because LA market is small.

If you are biglaw or bust I would recommend hedging your bets by bidding a large market like NY with LA so you don't strike out....because it is easy to strike out in LA. The summer classes are small. I would say it is critical to spend your summer in LA, especially now that we can start meeting people in-person. The summer classes are small - usually anywhere from 2-10. With that being said, partners have the flexibility of adding in an additional summer. You have significant ties, just network, network, network.

Also, general advice, don't listen to career services. Reach out and listen to Duke alums.

Thanks. Will spending the summer in LA hurt my chances in NY if I hedge my bets in LA by bidding there? I don’t want to be seen as a flight risk if I strike out in LA and end up striking out in NY too.

[Anonymous User]

Anon because LA market is small.

If you are biglaw or bust I would recommend hedging your bets by bidding a large market like NY with LA so you don't strike out....because it is easy to strike out in LA. The summer classes are small. I would say it is critical to spend your summer in LA, especially now that we can start meeting people in-person. The summer classes are small - usually anywhere from 2-10. With that being said, partners have the flexibility of adding in an additional summer. You have significant ties, just network, network, network.

Also, general advice, don't listen to career services. Reach out and listen to Duke alums.

Thanks. Will spending the summer in LA hurt my chances in NY if I hedge my bets in LA by bidding there? I don’t want to be seen as a flight risk if I strike out in LA and end up striking out in NY too.

Is your resume all California besides Duke? Usually, a story about how New York is the finance capital of America with the best deals is enough to get you in the door.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks. Will spending the summer in LA hurt my chances in NY if I hedge my bets in LA by bidding there? I don’t want to be seen as a flight risk if I strike out in LA and end up striking out in NY too.

New Yorkers LOOOOOOVE New York. Just say something about hub of finance, biggest legal market, fast paced city, etc, and you're golden.

[Anonymous User]

Anon because LA market is small.

If you are biglaw or bust I would recommend hedging your bets by bidding a large market like NY with LA so you don't strike out....because it is easy to strike out in LA. The summer classes are small. I would say it is critical to spend your summer in LA, especially now that we can start meeting people in-person. The summer classes are small - usually anywhere from 2-10. With that being said, partners have the flexibility of adding in an additional summer. You have significant ties, just network, network, network.

Also, general advice, don't listen to career services. Reach out and listen to Duke alums.

Thanks. Will spending the summer in LA hurt my chances in NY if I hedge my bets in LA by bidding there? I don’t want to be seen as a flight risk if I strike out in LA and end up striking out in NY too.

No. I deliberately tried to target LA, worked there 1L summer (had less ties explicitly to LA pre-law school than you, just broader West Coast), and netted an NYC offer while striking out in LA. I got asked "Why New York?" exactly once on a callback; "Why LA" was in every single LA interview.

+1 to the OP you're replying to - bidding LA at MVP was a crapshoot. If your ultimate goal is a biglaw job anywhere, the raw class size numbers almost always justify slotting the NY office instead of LA for your bid.

I also came away feeling like the OCI process at T14s like MVPD is a bit more skewed because of the LA class sizes - I had several OCI interviews where the interviewer was actually from another CA office like SF/SV interviewing for all of the firm's CA offices at once - having worked on the other side of the interview process, I feel like you're better positioned where your interviewer is actually directly involved with the office you're seeking the offer from.