Thoughts for European Lateral Forum

[Anonymous User]

I have moved recently from Europe into Biglaw NYC. I have plenty of experience but none in the US market, nonetheless my class year is senior. After a relatively short period it has been difficult:
- Working 12-18 days plus weekends (which means I am never available for my children).
- Lack of support and being expected to lead others when I have no idea what is going on.
To paraphrase, I receive a document and then have no clue about next steps. I don't even know basics like how to run searches. My precedents are useless because they are from a different market. Everyone is pleasant but too busy to deal with their own problems let alone mine. There's an expectation that I will come up the curve quickly because of my seniority. Currently I have a mid level on a deal who is supposed to be providing me with support, yet I am effectively leaning on them for guidance and instructions.
I am still in temporary accommodation and thinking, if I am going to pull the pin, now is the time. I'm fine with the decision itself but feel terrible doing so (especially given how busy everyone is). Any thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

I have moved recently from Europe into Biglaw NYC. I have plenty of experience but none in the US market, nonetheless my class year is senior. After a relatively short period it has been difficult:
- Working 12-18 days plus weekends (which means I am never available for my children).
- Lack of support and being expected to lead others when I have no idea what is going on.
To paraphrase, I receive a document and then have no clue about next steps. I don't even know basics like how to run searches. My precedents are useless because they are from a different market. Everyone is pleasant but too busy to deal with their own problems let alone mine. There's an expectation that I will come up the curve quickly because of my seniority. Currently I have a mid level on a deal who is supposed to be providing me with support, yet I am effectively leaning on them for guidance and instructions.
I am still in temporary accommodation and thinking, if I am going to pull the pin, now is the time. I'm fine with the decision itself but feel terrible doing so (especially given how busy everyone is). Any thoughts?

Is this a partner-track senior associate position or some foreign associate vacation? If the former, it seems hard to see how you could stick around for very long if you're like 3 years behind where you're supposed to be. Depending on your European market the money you can save in the US in a relatively short time can be substantial so trying to maximize your time could be an option. Did you move within the same firm and could you just go back to your home market?

Re hours: I think on average NYC biglaw is tougher than any EU market but I suppose you knew that when you moved?

[Anonymous User]

OP here. It is a partner-track senior associate position. Yes that is exactly how I feel; a lot of the tasks I'm doing are what I would ordinarily ask a junior / mid-level associate to handle. I cannot feel badly about it, it's unfortunately the limits of my capacity right now in this market. Things are so busy that the firm isn't going to give me marching orders, especially at this early stage. In fact all feedback has been positive, but I cannot help but feel that Americans are more polite about such things than Europeans (especially when they need all hands available and are dealing with relative new joiners). Plus I'm sure they're thinking I'll ramp up as I adjust; I agree but I know inside it's going to take longer than they expect (as the market terms in my home jurisdiction are night and day compared with the NYC market).

I am not too worried about finding work in my home market. When I left, I was told there was a spot when I wanted to go back (although I'm sure they were thinking a bit longer down the track!) I could speak with my former boss but I want to settle with my decision before I do so. Frankly there is some embarrassment too as everyone in town knew about my move. Financially it is not a big issue, even if I took off a few months (healthcare etc. is free where I live).

Yes I knew NYC hours would be hard. But it's the difference between thinking about participating in the Tour De France and then being in the middle of it. I am relatively healthy and fit, but on the weekend I worked until 3am twice and at my age my body doesn't respond as well as it did in my 20s or early 30s. I already feel incredibly lethargic all the time and as a result unable to enjoy time with family, which is not something I had calculated when making the decision. I cannot imagine how I'm going to feel 6 months down the track. I don't want to feel trapped by paying for a long term lease etc. I am in awe that Americans keep up this workload for years on end.

Culturally how is the firm going to respond if I pulled the pin at such an early stage? In my jurisdiction, it would be heavily frowned upon.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. It is a partner-track senior associate position. Yes that is exactly how I feel; a lot of the tasks I'm doing are what I would ordinarily ask a junior / mid-level associate to handle. I cannot feel badly about it, it's unfortunately the limits of my capacity right now in this market. Things are so busy that the firm isn't going to give me marching orders, especially at this early stage. In fact all feedback has been positive, but I cannot help but feel that Americans are more polite about such things than Europeans (especially when they need all hands available and are dealing with relative new joiners). Plus I'm sure they're thinking I'll ramp up as I adjust; I agree but I know inside it's going to take longer than they expect (as the market terms in my home jurisdiction are night and day compared with the NYC market).

I am not too worried about finding work in my home market. When I left, I was told there was a spot when I wanted to go back (although I'm sure they were thinking a bit longer down the track!) I could speak with my former boss but I want to settle with my decision before I do so. Frankly there is some embarrassment too as everyone in town knew about my move. Financially it is not a big issue, even if I took off a few months (healthcare etc. is free where I live).

Yes I knew NYC hours would be hard. But it's the difference between thinking about participating in the Tour De France and then being in the middle of it. I am relatively healthy and fit, but on the weekend I worked until 3am twice and at my age my body doesn't respond as well as it did in my 20s or early 30s. I already feel incredibly lethargic all the time and as a result unable to enjoy time with family, which is not something I had calculated when making the decision. I cannot imagine how I'm going to feel 6 months down the track. I don't want to feel trapped by paying for a long term lease etc. I am in awe that Americans keep up this workload for years on end.

Culturally how is the firm going to respond if I pulled the pin at such an early stage? In my jurisdiction, it would be heavily frowned upon.

I think it's difficult to give you good advice without having much more information (which would most likely out you).

Anyways, if I were in your shoes, I would give myself a year and see where this is going. You already quit your former firm and made the move so I wouldn't give up so quickly. If the firm is very busy I don't think they will give you the talk until then. And if your home market is so small that everyone in town knew about your move I would assume that you could sell one year of NYC biglaw as some great experience and set you further apart from the pack. If you still feel the same after a year go back to Europe and blame it on family reasons.

At the same time have a look at one of the many threads on how to push back/deal with crazy hours, otherwise even one year can be very long.

Re feedback: I agree that they tend to be more polite and less direct about such things than in continental Europe. However, I feel that it is still very clear when they are unhappy about your work product. Does it really matter whether a partner tells you "This needs work." or "C'est nul!"? In both cases you know that you fucked up.

I think that at any major law firm in this world leaving after a few weeks would be frowned upon (unless you go in-house and become a potential client lol).

[Anonymous User]

I am sure it will work out. On a side note, how did you end up lateraling from Europe to NYC. I am looking into my options to lateral but I am told that my lack of a visa would seriously hamper my chances. Does your firm have offices in NYC and Europe? Did you use a recruiter? Thanks

[Anonymous User]

OP again. I have American citizenship through ancestry so I sidestepped visa issues and applied through a stateside recruiter. I'll avoid further detail at risk of outing myself.

[Anonymous User]

OP again. I have American citizenship through ancestry so I sidestepped visa issues and applied through a stateside recruiter. I'll avoid further detail at risk of outing myself.

Sure. Thanks. I am sure it will work out at your new firm. I think you shouldn't give up too soon. Give it 1 year at least. Try your best and if it doesn't work out, at least you gave it your all!

[Anonymous User]

I also came into NYC BigLaw from a non-US market. The first six months were awful, but it got better after that. As a random lateral you have probably been tossed on to the worst deals with the worst partners. Life got better if not less busy after I’d gotten a handle on the culture of the firm and team. I adopted an attitude of worst comes to worse they give me my three months pay and I go home.

If you are getting positive feedback I wouldn’t sweat it. In my experience US firms will not hesitate to tell you that they are not happy with you.